I talked with both Josh and also the guy from surly about possible alternatives to the Larry. They both stated that they will be testing several other wide tires in off-road conditions to compare with the Larry for traction, handling, etc. One in particular that I suggested they try is the Surly Nate, which is also 3.8" wide. I’m looking forward to Josh’s ride review on that one.
This one looks very interesting as well!
Well, I have ridden the BFL and found it to be too much tire, autosteer was worse than on the Larry.
I’m looking at the Husker Du, but they seem to be on back order, second hoice would be a Nate.
There is also a lighter rim now, the LLM lite, single wall and drilled out. Apparently the DH LM is going to discontinued…not sure about the Freeride LM.
Went looking for the Husker Du, but all the discount sites were sold out, best price I found was $120 plus shipping
Apparently they are made by Vee Rubber in Thailand, come in a wire bead and a kevlar bead/side wall. They had a favorable review done by Fat-Bike: http://fat-bike.com/2011/12/product-preview-origin8-devist8er-fat-bike-tire/
They have a reinforced sidewall with a kevlar bead through the tread, so they’re supposed to be more burly than the Surly/45N tires; this explains the hefty weight. The profile is also much flatter than the Larry, which is my preference since an overly round profile seems to make for a wandering tire (Larry).
Kinda on the heavy side compared to the Larry, but about the same weight as the Nate. At half the price of the Husker Du and Nate, plus free shipping, they are a steal!
I ordered the Kevlar version, should be here by this weekend, just in time for some muddy riding
1980 grams!! That seems insanely heavy for a folding bead!
Edit: Here’s the wire bead version for $10 less and also free shipping. I’m on the phone with them now to confirm weights.
They weighed both folding (1840g) and wire (2,000g).
Hey Terry, the wire bead is a cheaper version, none of the benefits of the kevlar casing and way heavier. The Fat Bike review weighed the kevlar tires in the mid 1800gm, so very close to the Nate, but with a tread pattern closer to the Husker Du.
I read about these tires last Spring when they were shown at the OR Show. The reason I want to try the Origin8 is for the casing. The Husker Du and Surly tires are all QBP products and so the casing is the same. I like the Larry okay, but the casing is soft. I think a couple hundred gms for a burly casing is worth it (Nate 1780gm, Husker Du 1580gm), esp a tire I want to use for rocky DH.
I rode the Larry on some steep stuff yesterday and it was all over the place, lots of autosteer compared to a narrowly shod 29er (Ardent). It’s hard to compare, cuz one is a race care and the other is a monster truck, but I always thought that the Larry should be a big boy version of a Duro or the succesor to the Gazz 3", but it’s too soft and flexy, it needs more edge.
Wire bead versions are pretty much always less $$ then their FB counterparts. The Larry that currently comes with the Oregon is 27tpi and Wire bead. I don’t know how well a folding bead Larry. etc, would hold up on the big drops I’ve been doing. I would also prefer the 120 tpi (threads per inch) as it would give a much cushier ride and absorb more shock.
Don’t know what 4" tire this is, but the tread looks ready made for serious MUni! (And check out the rims!)
I REALLY want a fat ride
Looks like a Nate on some Clown Shoes.
At first glance I also thought it was a Nate, but the knobs appear to be pretty much all the same shape and size, unlike the Nate.
I would say Nates on flat top 100s
I went for a nice long ride a couple days ago with my fat setup and one of my early frankentires (2x Kenda tires sewn side-by side, more grip than Larry, almost as wide) and had almost as much issues with traction as floatation.
I can’t see myself pushing a tire as chunky as a Nate on most trails in summer but I think one will be in my future as my next fat tire for ungroomed winter trails.
$50-$60 is a hell of a deal for a fat tire though and I am strongly considering one (though I can’t see it being much better than what I currently have).
EDIT: yup, not a Nate
Tire weights for those so inclined…
Word on the street is that the tires on that mystery bike are a prototype, possibly the Origin8 Mission.
I don’t think a tire with long lugs is going to work well except in very soft (bottomless) soil or snow.
Based on what I’ve been reading about these wide tires, including the the BFL, it would seem that ALL super wide tires (3.5+) are more likely to have “self steering” and camber issues than narrower tires.
My initial thought was that a tread pattern more similar to the duro or stout, (i.e., like the unidentified tire pictured last) would be the most ideal for MUni, both technical and xc. But lately I’m thinking that no particular tread pattern will eliminate these issues, which seems to be the result, specifically, of the super wide footprint of these tires.
Is there any worry about the availability of fat tires for the Oregon frame in the distant future? If the fat tires go out of style and they stop making them, then the Oregon frame is going to become less than ideal for a 3" tire.
Before they stopped making the 24x3 Gazz tire, I had bought a small stockpile of those tires. I’m not looking forward to the day when they all wear out and I’m forced to use a narrower diameter tire (if those are even still sold).
If you want to see where fat tires are heading, check out MTBR Fat Biking Forum and some of the fat bike specific web sites. Fat tires are more than simply tires, for some bikers it’s their snow and sand riding machine, folks are racing them, some folks use them for tours, some folks prefer a fat tire bike with no suspension over a full suspension bike.
In other words, fat tires are here to stay
In regards to the demise of the Gazz 3", keep in mind that fat DH tires evolved for downhilling when big rubber was the best available technology to make up for lacking tech in bike suspension and wimpy tire casings, but with improved bike suspension and high TPI tire casing and th euse of high tech fibers (kevlar), fat tires like the Gazz were made obsolete. So a very different situation from the current fat tire craze.
I read in a blog that some folks are asking for smaller fat tires, so a future trend may be toward some more moderate tire sizes like a 3", so maybe there’ll be a return of the Gazz in a lighter form?
I’m still waiting on Vee Rubber (Origin8) fat tire, should be here today or tomorrow, watch for pics, dimensions and rider review this weekend
I am looking forward to it.
I am probably going to buy one or two for a project but holding off buying the tire until I hear your opinion on it.
EDIT: and I do believe that fat is here to stay. we are in a bit of a fat boom right now, it will probably slow down but not go away. It’s just too good of a solution for adventure biking.
Yup, it’s just too good for biking, and we just happen to be positioned to benefit from it, again
My Origin8 Devist8er was on the doorstep when I got home today:p
Do you really wanna know? Do ya?
Origen8 Devist8er 26 x 4.0, 70tpi (made by Vee Rubber)
Price was $59.50 shipped, two day air
Thick sidewalls, kevlar bead and kevlar weave through casing
Weight is 1813gm
95mm wide x 80mm tall (20psi)
93mm wide x 75mm tall (8psi)
Contrast with the Oregon stock tire:
Surly Larry 26 x 3.8, 27tpi
Price is retail $130, deals can be found down to $90.
Thin rubber sidewalls, wire bead, no additional reinforcement in casing
Weight is 1460gm
92mm wide x 80tall (10psi)
*Tire has been inflated for ~six months and has 75-100 miles of trail use.
First impression… a much thicker sidewall, more like a 1.5 ply in contrast to the single ply soft rubber sidewall of the Larry, casing is consistently firm from sidewall to tread. Rubber quality is good, seams are well finished, molding is consistent, no wrinkles in sidewall once unfolded, held shape nicely without sagging. Tire mounted up easily, bead seated easily, tire spins true, no bulges or irregularities.
I pumped up the tire to 20psi to seat the bead, this made it rock hard, so then I dropped the pressure to 10psi and it was still quite firm, much firmer than the Larry at 10psi (my normal riding psi), so I kept dropping the pressure to 7-8psi at which point it felt about as soft as the Larry at 10psi when I squeezed the tire. Upon mounting the uni I found the tire to be much stiffer in the sidewall and tread than the Larry. The comparison that comes to mind: If the Larry is a Racing Ralph 29 x 2.4, then the Devist8er is an Ardent 29 x 2.4
Then “we” went for a ride in the yard, and then up to the street. First thing I noticed is that the Devist8er feels more substantial, less of a soft fatty (Larry), firmer and quicker more like a Duro; though of course much bigger than a Duro.
Yes, even though it is heavier by 350gm than the Larry, it feels smaller and more nimble. Riding in the yard was kinda limited, but the Devist8er was easier to ride than the Larry and did not “autosteer”. Hopping around was less mushy than the Larry, again feeling more like a big muni tire.
On the street the Devist8er crowned a little as you’d expect with a tire this big, but it was not unmanageable, maybe a tad more than my Ardent, but far less than the Larry. The Devasta8er was noticeably faster than the Larry and again it felt less like a fat tire.
So that’s it for today, got a muddy ride planned for tomorrow, it’s raining now, we’re expecting a couple inches overnight, so the Devist8er should get a good work out
that thing looks GOOD