That sad shooting in Charleston got me thinking. Now before any of you unimaginative haters start posting pictures of dog shit, which by the way smells and looks way different than bullshit, allow me to speak.
The sad kid who shot up the church wasn’t a hater. He is a depressed psychopath. A psychopath doesn’t feel bad when they hurt people. Like Dick Cheny, only this kid didn’t plan so well. Instead of making millions $ killing thousands, he was caught on video and nailed in 2 days. His future is now eternity in solitary at super max. Crazy right ?
OK, so what’s the good in that ?, assuming you are not a mortician.
Well, nuts start conversations. It’s not just me. Because of this sad kid and his tragedy, people are talking about racially divisive symbols . After more than 150 years, it looks like the rebel flag will soon be removed soon from public buildings.
The other great hero in my pantheon of psychos or sociopaths is Fred Phelps (of the god hates fags and US soldiers church). IMHO, he has done more to advance acceptance of gay rights than anyone. Just by being a nut. He convinced you that if you agree with him you are an insane unpatriotic religious bigot. He’s done more to advance atheism than reading the bible. Once you look closely at something, and understand it is repulsive, you will change yourself.
It’s easy to attribute such horrors as the Charleston shooting to “a few bad apples”. I heard a quote somewhere; it went something like this: If you ask a typical white person to describe racism, they conjure up the image of a redneck spouting off racial epithets. If you ask a typical black person about racism, what they describe is systematic, institutional racism.
There are currently more black men in the US under correctional control than were enslaved at the height of slavery. Until recently, mandatory sentencing requirements for crack cocaine were 100 times longer than for powder cocaine. Now they’re only 18 times more. Slavery, Jim Crow, Convict leasing, Tough-on-crime, War-on-drugs and so-called “color blindness”…these are the institutional faces of racism and white supremacy.
There is a lot of institutional racism in the USA. The Prison industrial complex is worse here than in North Korea. Like, seriously, per capita, the USA is number 1 for locking people up. Preferentially black people.
Still, I stand by my OP that this sad kid is a depressed psychopath. Wackenhut
Inc. is now so pleased. Nobody else. Some things just suck. Unless you are the CEO of a for profit prison.
Need some clarification please.
Is the line of thought that as many whites have done the same crimes as the blacks, but did not get arrested or convicted and that’s why more blacks are in prison OR the blacks have no choice but to commit the crimes because there is no avenue to lead a legal life in our society…Thanks for the help.
A black person buys crack. A white person buys powder cocaine. The black person is forced to make his deal out on the heavily policed streets of the inner city. The white person has the luxury of making his deal on his boat or in his private residence. Guess who gets caught.
A black person is more likely to receive a stiffer sentence from weapons charges. There are added sentencing requirements when weapons are found within a certain distance from schools. Sounds reasonable, right? Except that, in the inner city, there are few places ‘not’ in the vicinity of schools.
Regarding whether black people have a “choice” regarding committing crimes…is a tricky subject. They had no choice in being born black. Affluent white people, who had no choice in being born into white affluence, frequently congratulate themselves for their successes. They act like spoiled, privileged children, not knowing how much they’ve been given. They are given so many more opportunities to screw up without consequences than their black counterparts. Then they turn around and tell black people to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps.”
Entire books have been written on this subject. A couple I have recently read are Michelle Alexander’s “The New Jim Crow” and “Dog Whistle Politics” by Haney López.
The subject of the original post was about the heinous crime perpetrated by a white person, and you have succeeded in turning this thread into a conversation about black crime.
Regarding all the blacks in prison, the ‘crime’ belongs to the state. The ‘perpetrator’ is our criminal justice system.
Sorry but I didn’t open the racism door in this thread, I just wanted to see the train of thought going on. And pretty much anytime you hear of mass shootings, serial killers or cannibals anymore, it will be a white male.
I find it amazing that a crazy depressed murderous psycho kid who has thrown his life away will have a lasting impact on our culture. Like, he’s just a mindless mean spirited dipshit punk with no experience waving a flag on his face book page.
None the less, it appears he has. Here is a sorta long but interesting video documentary about the issue of the rebel flag being flown on public state houses. Enjoy.
Most people who do mass shootings like that one have some sort of mental illness. Not that this makes it okay or even a little bit acceptable. But this kid was apparently motivated by racism first, then possibly pushed to more heinous deeds by his instability.
For whatever reason, most serial killers are white males. But I don’t think this shooting counts as serial, since it was all at once. While hw may have aspired to be a serial killer, hopefully he won’t get the chance.
If you don’t think there is institutional racism in America you probably don’t know many black people (not just black, but that’s the subject here). I do, and I’ve seen it firsthand. Many of the people my agency supports are black. One is a tall, very large man that talks with a deep, powerful voice. But he is very slow to process speech, which could lead to deadly consequences if he is ever stopped by police for “walking while black” or similar. It’s sad that we have to coach him on what to say and how to act in such a situation. He could potentially be shot by a cop simply because he can’t put together the necessary words quick enough for a cop that is requesting “compliance”.
Back to the Charleston shooting. Mental problems or no, being racist is bad. I would say it’s anti-American. Racism is alive and well; it just keeps going deeper underground. But it still isn’t very deep. Sometimes it’s just under the surface.
Confederate flag? I see it as a form of racism on a pole. Yes it represents many things. But one of the core things is slavery. The South really needs to get over the Civil War and move on.
Most states and the federal government have statutes that say mental illness mitigates a perpetrator’s criminal responsibility. That’s like the insanity defense, something only the mentally ill are actually entitled to use. To call a racist terrorist “mentally ill” is technically incorrect, same as calling a homophobic gay basher that. “Crazy” or mentally ill are technically incorrect terms for this violence, which results primarily from hate and/or fear.
OMG, I read the entire thread. What I found fascinating was, how few respondents actually addressed the question which was the subject of the thread: “White Privilege: White people, how have you benefitted?” Perhaps some of the respondents felt it was a loaded question. The high-point of the whole thread was #120, IMO.
I will answer the original question:
BillyATheMountain: “White Privilege: White people, how have you benefitted?”
ElpuebloUNIdo: “Being white has given me the privilege of riding a unicycle with handlebars. If I were black, there’d be no use for handlebars; I’d have to hold my hands up in the air, where the cops could see them.”
Q: White man, when did you stop persecuting the black man?
I said the shooter was a sad depressed psychopath. Likely delusional. No doubt he was somewhat motivated by a hateful racist ideology, but that wasn’t the big part IMHO.
Like, a bank robbing psychopath may shoot up a bank, motivated by greed. Not defending that, just saying the bank robber would make every effort to disguise his identity and get away clean. So he can spend the money and maybe do another bank in the future.
Likewise, KKK murders are nothing new, sadly. Many are unsolved because people motivated by hate want to get away cleanly, so they can kill again. This kid just looks depressed to me. He left a trail behind him as wide as the grand canyon, with no attempt to disguise anything.
I have never heard of a person doing a crime of this magnitude, using the "crazy " defense , and not getting really hard time. Most likely in solitary, for his protection. If you think there is a lot of mean spirited racists on the streets, it is the total culture for lifers in prison. Retaliation is the meaning of life for prison gangs.
I think too much emphasis has been placed on race. Talking about it and bringing up slavery of the past doesn’t help. You can’t change the past, why keep talking about it? I’m not saying don’t learn from the past but this constant harping on it doesn’t help.
You don’t believe me, try this simple test. For the next month remind one of your loved ones (spouse, kid, parent, significant other, etc.) every day something that they’ve done wrong in the past. That’s right, just keep reminding them every day. Let us know after a month how that went, that is if you can go for a whole month. I would guess in a few days they would give you good reason to stop with your badgering.
Watch these two short videos of Morgan Freeman on race and income equality.
The media (and our President) spent a lot of time talking about the infamous “Beer Summit”, Travon Martin and George Zimmerman, the riots in Fergeson, MO etc.
My question is if the media is concerned so much about black injustice then why is there not an outcry over the constant stream of murders in the South Side of Chicago. The number of young black youths murdered every week at the hands of other black youths is outrageous. Where is Al Sharpton? Where is Jesse Jackson? Apparently this doesn’t fit their whites killing blacks agenda. It also doesn’t make the national headlines very often. When was the last time our President, who came from Chicago, spoke about it? Has he sent Eric Holder to Chicago to determine the source of the racism?
And note, Chicago’s not the worse city when it comes to murder. Pick another large city.
Axiom #1 Life is not fair.
That’s right it isn’t. Sorry. Should I spend my life complaining that I’m not Brad Pitt. I don’t look as good as him. I don’t have close to the money he has. I have no fame, I don’t have the wife and friends he has. What good does it do with me griping that I’m not Brad Pitt. Besides wasting time and energy. Nothing.
Axiom #2 If life gives you lemons make lemonade.
That’s it, make the best with what you have.
It was Warren Buffett (famous billionaire and investor) who said and I’m paraphrasing, “If you’re lucky enough to be born in the U.S. you’ve already won the lottery in life”. He also said “There are 309 million people out there that are trying to improve their lot in life. And we’ve got a system (the U.S.) that allows them to do it.” Read and implement some of his quotes and you’ll be better off financially.
There is no better place to be than in the U.S. if you want to go from being poor to being rich. We could fill pages of names of those that have done that in this country. There are many places in this world where you wouldn’t be so lucky. If you’re born poor you stay poor.
Axiom #3 Quit blaming others and take responsibility for your actions.
Unfortunately we have a large legal system with some of it built upon “Slip and Fall” lawyers simply because many people ignore Axiom #3.
My question is, “What do we owe blacks because of slavery?”
Let’s see, my dad was born in Germany, my mother was born in Canada and is of Austrian descent. That makes me a first generation American. How am I responsible? Before 1927 my lineage was in Europe. There are some in the black community who want reparations. For what? They aren’t (or weren’t) slaves. How many of you know any slaves? Do you have any black friends that know slaves? I’m not making light of this but it’s time to move on. Did Morgan Freeman say he dwells on the past? Look at other countries that still practice slavery and have for centuries. In global terms the U.S. abolished slavery quickly.
I’m sorry, the U.S. is not perfect but instead of focusing so much energy on it’s imperfections and the past maybe we should move on and do our part to make this country better.
Axiom #4 Give a man a fish feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.
Our welfare system gives a person a fish everyday instead of teaching how to fish. Over the last 5 decades welfare recipients (Black, White, Hispanic, etc.) and spending has steadily increased and sky rocked during this Administration. Is this what we want as a Nation? More people dependent than those supporting the system? No, but our system gives people money and expects nothing in return.
Is that fair to those of us supporting the system? I don’t have a problem helping the truly helpless. But I really don’t like my money and everyone else’s money helping those that can do something, ie. It’s more advantageous to collect welfare than work 40 hours a week.
Let’s stop feeding the media’s desire to have a divisive, racists society. I don’t have Asian, Black, Hispanic, or White friends.
I have friends.
So, the real problem is “talking about” race. I think I just solved the mystery of all the burnt down black churches; must’ve been all the “hot air”. Also, someone needs to tell Alcoholics Anonymous that step one (acknowledging the problem) doesn’t work, and that “not” talking about it will make the problem go away.
Since we’re on the subject of thought-experiments: When you see a black person, do you notice that they are black? No, of course you don’t, because that would be racist to notice they are black. We should feel sorry for conservatives; they live their lives in an enlightened state of “color blindness”, only to be reminded about race by complaining blacks.
And yes, the media spent too much time covering the unrest in Baltimore. It just broke my heart seeing those pictures of broken windows, lying, shattered in the street. Window after window, cut down in the prime of life. Makes you want to clutch at your pearls, doesn’t it?
How can there be racial discrimination when we have a black president, a black supreme court justice, black secretary of state, famous black actors, musicians and sport heroes?
I liked the quote by Warren Buffett. Reminds me that this is the land of opportunity, and if all work hard enough, we can turn our already-great nation into a nation of 300,000,000 multi-billionaires.
I don’t know about actual statutes, but a person’s mental state is often a factor in homicide cases. I believe it usually affects the sentencing, but not the determination of guilt or not-guilt. One’s mental state does not make killing any less illegal. Any form of mental state doesn’t make crime “okay”.
Sometimes. But if it’s a racially motivated killing, or the shooting of an unarmed person apparently for reasons directly related to their skin color, we had better be talking about race. We talk, talk, talk about it, but I’m not sure what kind of progress we’re making.
People will continue to talk about the Holocaust, to remind people that it really did happen, and in the hopes of making sure it isn’t allowed to happen again. Others talk about other injustices, such as Japanese internment camps during WWII. Mistakes (or crimes) that must be remembered.
This does not necessarily mean our media is covering news in an objective fashion. They want ratings. Controversial news is way better than boring news, so the controversy level is often turned up. Or off-topic questions are asked to add a level of drama to a situation that might be unrelated to said drama. Conflict, drama, controversy, these are food for journalists! Boring stories get so much less attention, even if they are vitally important.
So it is annoying to you to hear discussions of slavery? Actually nobody is really discussing slavery, but they bring it up because it’s legitimately one of the causes of the racism that still exists today. It is one of the topics directly addressed by the Confederate flag. Yes it’s unpleasant to talk about unpleasant things, but sometimes we have to. That said, if you don’t like the beating of a dead horse, you might want to avoid watching a lot of CNN when they get into one-story-mode.
Yup, boring. Nothing new there. Horrible, but no fresh controversy. No “hook” for a news story.
Walking while being black is also not fair. but it shouldn’t be any different than walking while any other color. Our laws say we are supposed to be treated equally under the law and yet we are not. These injustices cannot be fixed if we ignore them. Yes, you might get hit by lightning and feel that it’s “not fair”. But at least the lightning didn’t target you based on your color.
Axiom #2]There is no better place to be than in the U.S. if you want to go from being poor to being rich. We could fill pages of names of those that have done that in this country.
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If you are suggesting that all Americans are equally positioned to be successful you are misinformed. Obviously being poor is an obstacle. But being treated differently; being denied college admission, housing, jobs based on your nationality or color? Not that it’s “not fair”, it’s also not legal. Even if unintentional, it’s still racism and it still goes on, institutionally.
Good for you! And I feel the same way. Some of us have more exposure to a mixture of racial/cultural demographics than others. If you live in Indian River, MI, according to Wikipedia, your demographic is 97% white, and 0.05% black. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it may make it less likely that you’ve seen or experienced institutional racism at work. It’s hard to get it if it doesn’t affect anyone you know. Also, if you’re lucky, it doesn’t even exist as much up there. But just because you don’t hear about it, like crime in Chicago, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
I think I’ve ridden my unicycle in Indian River. I did a bike tour on Mackinac Island in 1984, which included a day of riding in your general area. It’s very nice and peaceful there (it was summer).
Kim makes some good points, but I think goes off the rails a little about racism and income inequality.
Like, let’s say I hack into Warren Buffet’s computer and have access to all his best tips. Will this help me pull me up by my own boot straps ? Knowledge that I should spend 2 B$ on a stock, so I can make 80 % profit. Yes, thank you Mr. Buffet. I will promptly reach under my bootstraps and pull the 2 B$ out that I have hidden in the heel of my boot.
There is no question that the billionaire class has gained and kept the increase in wealth as the economy has expanded. It takes money to make money. The middle and underclass,(often black) , is sort of dead in the water. The path forward will be a big issue in 2016. Bush will run with a billion $, but you can only buy so many votes.
Murder requires intent, a mental state (from Wiki)
A range of words represents shades of intent in criminal laws around the world. The mental element, or mens rea, of murder, for example, is traditionally expressed as malice aforethought, and the interpretations of malice, “maliciously” and “wilfully” vary between pure intent and recklessness depending on the jurisdiction in which the crime was committed and the seriousness of the offence.
A person intends a consequence they foresee that it will happen if the given series of acts or omissions continue, and desires it to happen. The most serious level of culpability, justifying the most serious levels of punishment, is achieved when both these components are actually present in the accused’s mind (a “subjective” test). A person who plans and executes a crime is considered, rightly or wrongly, a more serious danger to the public than one who acts spontaneously (perhaps because they are less likely to get caught), whether out of the sudden opportunity to steal, or out of anger to injure another. But intent can also come from the common law viewpoint as well.
Knowing the history of slavery and the traitors against this fine nation who tried to overthrow our ideals helps understand why people want the Confederate flag taken down, and why the South will soon be marked with monuments to the 5,000 + racially motivated lynchings.
If there were a “South Germany” where the Nazi flag flew over the State Courthouse (like Confederate flag over S. Carolina) and streets were named after Nazis, and monuments to Nazi soldiers were prominent, Nazi holocaust victims/survivors would likely feel unwelcome. That’s because we know history. It’s that history that helps us understand why the slave trader/traitor flag makes people uncomfortable, and why White supremacist terrorists feel empowered by it.
Kim: It is a direct result of 8 years of G. Bush Policies that sent 8 million American jobs overseas know as the Trickle Down Theory.
But in reality, all of the welfare that the U.S. government provides to real, live human beings is just a drop in the ocean, compared to the billions and billions that the government hands out to corporations and big-business.
Each year, the average American family forks over $6,000 to corporations (read: to White People) in the form of taxpayer subsidies.
Of that $6,000, $870 goes to direct subsidies for corporations, including the Big Oil corporations that are polluting our planet and fueling climate change.
