the "death" of Muni...

General
21

Hey,

To throw in a few climbing analogies:
To me, trials is like bouldering or sport climbing - it’s straightforward to quantify difficulty so it’s not hard to measure progression in a sport.

Muni is like mountaineering. There are so many variables that it’s impossible to make general statements about what “hard” means, or what constitues progress, if you consider the entire genre of riding offroad.

For example - what’s harder, riding a 5 cm ladderbridge to a 3 metre drop, or 3000 m vertical of climbing on a 80 km trail ride? Hard riding in your local area, versus having the creativity and experience to take that same riding to a remote region in the world? High consequence easier riding versus low consequence but technically harder riding? Difficulty comparisons like that are pretty much useless, as is claiming that a particular competition type might determine a "best’ rider.

At minimum we have to limit comparisons to be kept within sub-genres in the sport, such as Freeriding, All-Mountain, or Cross Country. Even then it’s hard.

Correct me if I’m wrong but Justin I’m guessing you are talking specifically about Freeriding - ie. riding (mostly downhill) through the hardest terrain possible. And (separately) about films that manage to capture that part of the sport. For this side of the sport, progression is limited IMO by two things:

  1. That most people don’t have access to this kind of riding
  2. That in this kind of riding, harder usually equals higher risk, or at least higher consequence. That’s not necessarily the case for trials.
    Both these factors limit the rate that the standard hard freeriding can grow, compared to other styles.

Also - the inevitable next step in freeriding is just barely starting now in our sport - slopestyle like in Freeride mountain biking, with riders pulling tricks on hard trails. For example what you’re doing on the north Shore and Mike Parenthea’s doing in Nelson, and a few European riders are doing. But that hasn’t really started much yet.

Also, there isn’t a culture of videography amongst muni riders like there is with street and trials. So the majority of technical muni riders pushing standards don’t shoot videos or participate on newsgroups. It’s important not to equate video popularity with sport popularity.

In terms of average technical riding standards, muni is definitely getting stronger. The 3 rides we did at the Cali muni weekend this year would not have been collectively doable by a similar size group 5 years ago.

In terms of riders pushing worldclass technical freeride standards, I’d say it’s growing slowly but not as fast as trials and street due to the limitations of #1 and #2 above.

What will always be the least popular muni styles will be the riding styles requiring multiple skillsets that usually aren’t present in the same person - hard technical combined with hard endurance combined with a hard place to get to; in other words All Mountain riding.

So, based on 24" to 29" muni sales, conversations with riders off the newsgroup, and general gut feel, I don’t think muni is dead at all, although I think you’re right that Freeriding standards are growing more slowly. I do think that the sport is currently diversifying and evolving and we have yet to see how many riders like to do the different parts of the sport.

Kris

22

thaaaaaaaaaank you. i couldnt agree more.

“Also, there isn’t a culture of videography amongst muni riders like there is with street and trials. So the majority of technical muni riders pushing standards don’t shoot videos or participate on newsgroups. It’s important not to equate video popularity with sport popularity.”

this is kind of the idea im shooting towards though. Im not saying that street wouldnt have evolved as quick as it did if it werent for riders like shaun, kelly, luke or whoever else you can add to that list. These guys were constantly pushing eachother to see who could come up with the newest and most killer line.

so i think sport and video popularity go hand in hand.

and yes, i am speaking more about a “freeride” type style, i think thats the next big move. It would also be nice to know if theres other people on board with this idea so we can really make it happen.

( p.s. i still need to grab that brake off you this week, hahaha :slight_smile: )

23

This thread has been an interesting read so far.

I would just like to make 2 points. Justin (this is no means a personal attack just a way to illustrate one of Kris’s points), you complain about the state of filmed Freeride muni and the lack of people doing it. I find this interesting that while you are a talented rider, have access to great trails and other fantastic riders to bounce off, and a background in video production that you are struggling to produce your ‘is muni dead’ video. Case in point that even someone who has all the opportunities to showcase their riding and the ‘new freeride Muni’ can face restrictions on getting their riding out there. Now imagine for the other 90% or muni riders in the world who do not satisfy half of the opportunities that you have and you probably have the reason your not seeing as many ground breaking videos as you are in the street or Flat aspects of the sport.

For me muni has been about personal challenges- mainly due to the fact that i am a solo rider almost all the time. i don’t think that the lack of new videos has affected me very much in my development as a rider (and i’m sure Kris will confirm that the lack of freeride videos didn’t stop him pushing his personal limits as the sport was developing). Because of the nature of the terrain around where i live i have been expanding my ability in technical climbing and expanding the range of my riding has been my main area of growth for this year.

I agree with Joe about making the effort to ride with others of comparable skill level and am really looking forward to meeting lots of good riders at Unicon this year.

Mark

24

As others have said…a lack of muni videos does not mean that muni is dying.

You say that you haven’t seen much ground breaking stuff recently, but have you seen videos of Kris at moab or Corbin in CA riding their geared 24s? Geared muni is just taking off and it will definitely change the sport.

Also, what about other astonishing accomplishments in muni that have happened recently? Gracie Sorbello and her friend (who I can’t seem to remember his name) did the entire continental divide route on their unicycles. This is an amazing accomplishment in our field.

Accomplishments, adventures, advancements…are all happening.

25

I would say more generally that sharing stories and communicating about what riders are up to is really important for a sports growth, and that video is just one tool for that (although a good one).

Video is really good for showcasing action, but if you want to make a good video, the ride becomes very much about making the video, which is a lot different than going for a ride. It also changes the riding style because some riding just looks better than others on video - big basic moves & high consequence stuff usually win out over the hard slow technical, and there is a tendency to ride as fast as possible right at the edge of your level of control, which is a different style than an off-camera more conservative riding style that looks more boring but usually is better for consistently cleaning sections.

So for these reasons, and particular for All Mountain and XC, written storytelling and stillphotos still have a big part to play because it’s often easier to communicate that way without as much effect on the normal (e.g. off-camera) riding experience.

I’m hoping that once the Capture the Moment stillphoto contest gets launched, it will help communicate about these other riding styles that don’t get seen quite as much on video.

Kris

26

[B]This thread has been an interesting read so far.

I would just like to make 2 points. Justin (this is no means a personal attack just a way to illustrate one of Kris’s points), you complain about the state of filmed Freeride muni and the lack of people doing it. I find this interesting that while you are a talented rider, have access to great trails and other fantastic riders to bounce off, and a background in video production that you are struggling to produce your ‘is muni dead’ video. Case in point that even someone who has all the opportunities to showcase their riding and the ‘new freeride Muni’ can face restrictions on getting their riding out there. Now imagine for the other 90% or muni riders in the world who do not satisfy half of the opportunities that you have and you probably have the reason your not seeing as many ground breaking videos as you are in the street or Flat aspects of the sport.
[/B]

no worries, nothing taken personally.

the only reason i havent finished my movie yet is because i keep adding sections to it. The initial video is done, but im wanting to add 2 more parts…

so really im making the video longer.

also,

i did actually mention that i was apart of the problem in my first post. Plus,
something else that ive stressed a few times is that all the weight shouldnt be carried by a select few. It needs to be tackled by the whole group once someone gets the ball rolling.
so all need to work at this.

27

lol really, tired of repeating things? the only thing dead about MUni is the identical thread by you elsewhere :stuck_out_tongue:

28

well if you read this thread at all then your opinion might actually mean something to me right now, but im still at work and grumpy.

so run on back to the top and come back here and try it again.

29

So from what ive gathered since i posted the “Is muni dead” thread, a lot of people have taken what ive said and tried to prove me wrong by throwing statements after they’ve posted a video, or in some cases right in the title, " MUNI IS NOT DEAD! ITS ALIVE etc…, but without knowing it they have all just proven my initial statement to be correct.

30

If I had to make a case for MUni on my own behalf, it might go something like this:

I for one am very proud of my sizable contributions to the sport of MUni and Uni in general, in addition to probably being the most-or at least, one of the most-prolific filmmakers of serious MUni. I don’t waste time talking about it, or complaining about the state of whatever discipline…I just get out there and DO it! :slight_smile:

I’ve also been lucky enough to have garnered a significant amount of positive publicity for our sport. My MUni riding is often extremely technical and demonstrates a high degree of skill and technique-at any age. And I’m also very proud of my UCC filming innovation, which has added a very new and exciting facet to the art of MUni/Uni filmmaking technique.

I am especially thankful and heartened by the many hundreds of emails, messages and comments from people all around the world who say they have been inspired by my videos and realize you’re never too old to learn to ride a unicycle, and make it a life-long passion of fun and fitness!

So, I know for a fact that I have done more than my part to keep MUni not only very much ALIVE and well, but THRIVING with vitality and energy like never before! Yay! :):D:p:o :sunglasses:

31

I like watching all the videos that different people post. I enjoy pictures and stories of off road adventures. However, I feel like I should feel bad since I can’t contribute some death-defying footage, but I can’t. I don’t have the strength or skill. (I also want to survive another day.) These kinds of threads make me feel like I should apologize for my lack of ability. I’ve been riding for 8 months now and I’m happy to ride my own ride. I’m challenged every time I go out and I have a lot of fun. I even have some footage of me off road which I like to share with those who don’t unicycle or who are very new. If I put it on this forum it would be dull.

Maybe I’m misreading the intent here but why isn’t it okay for people to be challenged no matter what their level? Why does riding that I consider difficult that more skilled riders may consider boring take away from the sport? Doesn’t everyone add to it just by being out there and being seen? Non-riders think I am amazing. Then I read comments like some of these and feel sort of worthless:( (only I really don’t because I’ll ride again tomorrow and have a blast:D:D).

32

I’m gonna have to agree, Muni is growing a lot slower ( especially freeriding ) then street, flat and trials.

And I think that there isn’t much to do, because not many people have the chance to ride Muni.

Personally, the only reason I don’t ride Muni is because I don’t have a muni and i don’t have amazing trails nearby.

33

Your last sentence says it all, and that’s what it’s all about! And for every 1 video posted, there are countless hundreds of MUni riders…more likely thousands around the globe, doing just what you-and so many more-will be doing tomorrow…and the next day, and the next…RIDING and LOVING it! :slight_smile:

34

Why should MUni riders care about filming? The vast majority of mountain bike riders don’t. Trials and street are closer to skateboarding, where videos are very important–that’s because they’re poser sports, and you need video to separate the posers from the people with actual skills.

MUni is about doing it. Every good MUni rider is pushing the limits, every time he goes out–his own limits. Frankly, I don’t give a crap what you think about my riding, and well I shouldn’t, so why would I bother to film it for you?

MUni isn’t dead, it’s just more mature than street and trials. Like most mature participative sports, it’s become more about participating than about being cool or showing off. We had over 200 riders at Moab this year; what’s the biggest trials thing that’s happened?

35

And SHE and HER…a few of us are female (though the hair is short and the boobs may be a bit shriveled up from advanced age not to mention the sprouting whiskers–old age sucks)

36

I’m approaching 5 months since I joined the world of uni. 4 months for muni. My 2 cents may only be worth 1.

I don’t know the stats, but from observation (on the internet) I’d say that muni has been growing well in the past 5 years. Sure street and trials have been growing well too… and I’d guess more rapidly than muni. (Hard for me to say… I generally seek out muni thread/gossip/info and ignore a good part of the rest… it just doesn’t interest me as much)

Lets say there’s a guy named Muni and a guy names Street. They are both skinny guys, and start working out at the gym regularly. After 5 years Muni is a big strong guy and Street is a super duper big strong guy. Now we stand them side by side.
Someone comes along and says… “Hey look, Muni is dead”. Huh? He is? He looks like he’s strong and healthy and better than ever.

Maybe it’s true that street/trials has progressed more than muni in the past 5 years. So why not just make THAT statement?

Do you want more muni videos? Just say so (you have) and leave it at that.
I think you might just be trying to rally the troops and build excitement for muni, which is good. But the reverse psychology is getting old… maybe it’s time to start saying… “Muni is growing faster than ever!! I love it! Group hug!” :wink:

37

Why should MUni riders care about filming? Videos are an important source of publicity. If it wasn’t for Kris’s part in NWD, I would never have taken my unicycle out of my garage all those years back.

Pushing your limits by yourself sucks. This is the worst way of progression. Watching other people’s videos and getting inspired and going out and actually trying. If you don’t want to be part of this, that’s fine. All I’m saying is that it is a vital part for the growth of a sport. Look at Kris’s vids.

Don’t be an ass, this is just rude. Trials and street both have their set of challenges, it’s not about “showing off”. It’s about the thrills, accomplishments, challenges, meeting people, etc, just like MUni. We just do it in a different way. The same can be said about all sports. Maturity has nothing to do with unicycling. Heck, unicycling is completely illogical when you think about it. It’s all about letting your mind go blank and getting in touch with you, your ride, and your surroundings. Get fit physically and restore yourself mentally.

I think what Justin is trying to do here is to get muni riders to start filming more, and get the worldwide scene together. I’m riding a lot more mountain now because I can use a vehicle. It takes a lot of resources to get out to the mountains, which a lot of younger riders don’t have. They have to make do with inferior immature “poser” sports, closer to home.

Getting in front of a video camera is an awesome way of progressing. You push yourself harder, and when you fail, have some comedic relief when you’re all healed up. It also feels good to look back on some old videos and realize how far you’ve come.

The MUni scene worldwide needs working on. Not in rider numbers, but in videos and progression as a sport. People need to raise up the level, and enjoy themselves every second as they do it;). This is why Kris did so much for the sport, and why a lot of us are riding today.

38

When I saw the title of this thread I thought to myself, “Oh my #@$%ing goodness! He’s going to announce that his muni video isn’t coming out! NNNOOO!” After my initial moment of irrational fear, I read what Justin wrote and said to myself, “Isn’t this what he already said? That as a whole, muni isn’t growing nearly as fast as street/flat/trials?” I think people who aren’t extremely insane champ muni riders are taking this too personally. I believe Justin’s talking about the top riders in the sport not making enough videos or pushing themselves as far as they could. (this is of course assuming Keny Banks and Mike Parenteau don’t exist:p)

Videos are a huge part of unicycling. When I started riding in 2007, I wasn’t able to watch uni videos because of my poor computer. I stopped riding after about 4 months. However, once I started watching awesome videos this January, I was hooked again, my skill level increased rapidly, and I’ve been loving uni ever since!:smiley:

39

I have not seen a good ultra-marathoning video in ages. Ultra-marathoning is dead!

I did not realize that we were such a videocentric community. I don’t think I watched more than half a dozen video clips of unicycling all year.

I think that Tom was saying that the sport has matured not that you have to be mature to ride MUni.

What does it mean if I spend my leisure time doing a leisure activity (which just happens to be challenging) am I dead because I am enjoying myself instead of showing off for others?

40

Those Kenny Banks ones are. There’s probably heaps of good muni riders out there who don’t make videos. Most people can’t be bothered filming when they go on muni rides, like myself for example. Another thing is muni never looks as impressive in videos, nothing looks as steep or as hard as it really is.

lol :stuck_out_tongue: