TA tyre : 4 PLY or 2 PLY ??

Unicycles and Equipment
1

There is something I don’t understand on the second hand old chromed qu-ax 36er I’ve bought 9 days ago, it’s about the tyre.

Here is my 36er without the handle I added since:

-What I know is that there is an old TA tire which is heavy (about 2.3kg) and a new one which is much lighter (about 1.5kg).
-What I think I know (but I’m not sure) is that both are “4 PLY” built.
-What I wonder is why it is written “2PLY” on my TA tyre :


Beyond the question I also try to know for sure if I have the heavy TA tyre or the new one (or a kind of copy since it is written Made In Taïwan) without taking it off to check , cause I find it very heavy on the first half spin of the wheel just after the free mount, especially when I try it with shorter cranks than 137, but that’s my first 36er so maybe it’s me.

The second question I am asking to myself is when this Qu-ax model has been released, since it has got a black isis hub (not the red one) and KH seat + brakes
The rim sideways also have the tiny surface for the brakes.

Thanks for your help.

2

I would guess you have the old TA since the new one only became available recently. That said, i would weigh your tire. The actual weights vary greatly on these. My TA weighed in around 1700g which was lighter than many Nightrider tires (actual weights) of the time. So, while it is probably the old version, it may not be that much heavier. I’m not aware of any actual weights on the new tire for comparison, but it’s close enough to my old one that they may not really be any lighter than what I had.

The saddle was probably changed since it would be more likely a Qu-Ax saddle. Are you sure it’s an ISIS hub? All of the black Qu-Ax hubs that I’m aware of have square tapers. The ISIS hubs are usually red or yellow. If it is ISIS that could help with dating it.

3

Thanks for your reply.

I 'd like to avoid any unnecessary unmount of the tyre since it is reputed to be hard to mount/unmount, so I won’t do it only to know it’s weight.
The 36er was at 200€ so it is a good price for a first 36er, I will probably finish by selling it one day and buying a better one but not for now.

My main question is the “2 PLY” stuff. what is written on your TA?

Yes it is a black ISIS hub, I mounted several sizes of ISIS cranks on it, but there is no inscription on any part of the unicycle excepted the tyre and the seat of course, but I just noticed that a hole in form of “1” is repeated 4 times on each sides of the hub, so it’s probably the “1” of QU-AX

On the image of the red hub you can also see the same “1” holes on the sides.
mine is just all black.
So now that I am saying that, there is nearly no doubt that this is a Qu-ax hub and a Qu-ax 36er.
But when did Qu-ax released this “black hub” 36er ?

The other question left is the “2 ply” stuff.

4

Hmm, the TA on my Qu-Ax is 4-ply, and I’m pretty sure it’s not the new, lighter model that came out this year (As I got my uni the year before…). Not a clue what the 2-ply is! :astonished: I think the chrome-coloured Qu-Ax’s are fairly old but I’m not sure exactly how old.

5

If it says 2 ply it’s probably 2 ply.

Mine says 4 ply…

6

Thanks for your inputs guys.
I guess I opened a “solve the mystery” thread.

Who will be able to find the answer?
I pay a virtual beer :smiley:

7

Yes but you’ll have to find out the weight of yours to nail that thread. :slight_smile:

And what about a real beer? :sunglasses:

8

If you manage to resolve this double mystery before the next odd Sunday we 'll ride together, I’ll offer you a real one :wink:

9

To mark a 4 ply tire as 2 ply (lighter) when it’s not would be pretty low, even for the cycling industry.

I’d say it’s probably 2 ply.

10

I also think if it is indicated “2PLY” it must be.
Do every TA tyre owners have “made in Taïwan” on theirs?

Does someone know if Qu-ax started with 2 PLY tyres for their very first 36er or was it already 4 PLY at the beginning?
:thinking:

11

They were all four ply until pretty recently. I believe that the Nightrider was the first 2 ply 36" tire.

12

Still don’t know why this tyre is a 2PLY while not being recent but I Just got my first ever flat on a Unicycle with this 36er.

yesterday, since I wanted to work on rolling mount with 125mm cranks, I inflated the TA tyre to 40 PSI, cause at 32 PSI there is to much rolling resistance with those cranks for a learning session (this was a 1h30 session on a parking)
The same evening I found the tyre flat.
I know that some people do have issues when inflating the TA tyre above the 36PSI, and some others don’t. I guess mine doesn’t like it very much.

I will have to dismount this tyre, so I’ll be able to know it’s weight, what tube is in and what exactly caused this flat.

Anyway, I am thinking about buying a Nightrider 36" tyre cause it can be inflated to 65 PSI but I wonder if the RIM of this early ages QU-AX will support this new tyre and 65 PSI inflation.

What do you guys think about it?

13

I run my TA tyre at 50-60psi depending on the weather and I’ve never had any issues with that.

As for the rim - it should fit the Nightrider tyre just fine, not sure if the rim makes any difference in terms of tyre pressure though.

14

I think he is talking about putting the nightrider tire on his older QuAx rim.

I don’t think that there should be any issues with the rim as far as pressure is concerned, for that matter I wouldn’t hesitate to try the two-ply TA at higher pressure either. I have tried riding my 4 ply TA at higher pressures and just don’t like the feel over 40, I have gone up to 60 with no issues. It’s a personal preference thing, as well as a non-perfect road surface thing. I have no problem airing down to 25 in winter and off-road.

As for the rim: the older QuAx is quite narrow compared to the other 36" rims. This should round out the tires a bit. You probably need a bit higher pressure than most of us with wider rims. The rounder harder tire should make the unicycle a bit more easily maneuverable at the expense of straight-line stability.

I guess I wrote all that to say: UniDreamerFR, fix your flat and try the higher pressure, you already have a pretty good setup for maneuvering around a parking lot. I doubt that the Nightrider tire would be much of an improvement.

15

I have a Qu-ax 36" which is now 2.5 years old. It has a TA 4 PLY tire. I can confirm that it handles like an stalled Antonov during mounting and at low speeds.

Today i took off the TA tire and installed a Nightrider Tire. I did compare weight by hand and weight appears to be quite similar. I may be imagining things but it appears to handle better than the TA tire at low pressure (32 PSI). Especially the yawing motions when turning at low speeds. Perhaps it has something to do with the way it deforms or with the thread pattern. I will test it at higher PSI to see if this improves handling.

16

Thank you all for your answers.

I just dismounted the tyre, and weighted all parts with my electronic balance (by weighting myself with and without parts).

The 2 PLY TA tyre weights about 2.1kg
The tube : Wheel TA 2.25-31 : 600gm (original 36" tube I guess)
Hub+rim+48 pokes : 2.1kg

Before dismounting the Tyre, when I inflated it and then listen to hear where was the leak it seamed to come from the valve, and when I was touching/bending it I could clearly hear the air leak getting stronger.
But once the tube retired from the tyre, pumped a bit and plunged under water, I couldn’t see any bubble anywhere.
I just can see some of the tube matter above the boundaries of the valve disk plate detaching itself a bit, but not to the point that I see a hole in the tube.
I presume that the air only goes out when the PSI are above what I can put in the tube without any tyre.

Anyway, what do you guys think about the weight of the tyre, tube and more interestingly the wheel’s weight (hub+spokes+rim) ?

I guess I can save a few hundreds of grams by buying a Nightrider tyre and a Foss 36er tube (being able to inflate the tyre to 65PSI without doubling the max recommended PSI would be a big + ), but I can’t do anything about the 48 spokes and the rim itself.

So if it really makes the wheel more easy to accelerate and control, it definitely worths it and I could use this old Qu-Ax for a while before thinking about selling it and buying a nimbus or kh 36er, but if a new tyre and light tube doesn’t change anything, it’s not the same deal.

By the way, the space between the rim sides is about 27-28mm,the part of each side in contact with the tyre bead is about 5mm deep, the rim has a U form on the tube side, and a _/ form on the spokes side (see the photo) I just hope it can keep the nightrider tyre beads tight at 65 PSI.

Since it is not a 4PLY TA but a 2PSI TA (the mystery is still here), I’m not sure I want to inflate this TA to the double of the max recommended PSI.

Another question about the nigthrider tyre:
is there an old and heavy Nightrider tyre and a recent one lighter, (I guess so) and if yes, what are the release date of the new one?
I ask this cause I’m not sure the french unicycle web shops have the last one, but if I know the release date I could ask more precisely before ordering it.

Edit:

Very interesting.
I can’t wait to read what are your feelings with the High PSI

17

The change of tyre happened over 2 years ago, but we did not make a big announcement as there was stock of the older tyre still in stores. I would expect all tyres to be the newer lighter design now.

We have not been notified by QuAx if the carcass is the same as the Nightrider. The Nightrider has a high thread count to allow it to run at the higher pressures.

Roger

18

Thanks for this precision.
Have you got an official web shop for France ? (I don’t think so but I could be wrong)

19

We do not have a Unicycle.com in France but cdk.fr and funicycle.com are dealers and do have nimbus unicycles and parts. Worth checking with either of them or we can ship from the UK. We definitely only have the light tyre.

Regards

Roger

20

Don’t blame him Roger, he is very new at unicycling :wink:
Unidreamer, I have spare original 36" tubes for you if you need, I don’t use such trucks anymore