Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Stuff like this is starting to worry me.

from
http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof

A George Rogers Clark High School junior arrested Tuesday for making
terrorist threats told LEX 18 News Thursday that the “writings” that got
him arrested are being taken out of context.

Winchester police say William Poole, 18, was taken into custody Tuesday
morning. Investigators say they discovered materials at Poole’s home that
outline possible acts of violence aimed at students, teachers, and police.

Poole told LEX 18 that the whole incident is a big misunderstanding. He
claims that what his grandparents found in his journal and turned into
police was a short story he wrote for English class.

“My story is based on fiction,” said Poole, who faces a second-degree felony
terrorist threatening charge. “It’s a fake story. I made it up. I’ve been
working on one of my short stories, (and) the short story they found was
about zombies. Yes, it did say a high school. It was about a high school
over ran by zombies.”

Even so, police say the nature of the story makes it a felony. “Anytime you
make any threat or possess matter involving a school or function it’s a
felony in the state of Kentucky,” said Winchester Police detective Steven
Caudill.

Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.

“It didn’t mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn’t mention (George
Rogers Clark High School), didn’t mention no principal or cops, nothing,”
said Poole. “Half the people at high school know me. They know I’m not that
stupid, that crazy.”

On Thursday, a judge raised Poole’s bond from one to five thousand dollars
after prosecutors requested it, citing the seriousness of the charge.

Poole is being held at the Clark County Detention Center.


John R. Marshall

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

John R. Marshall wrote:
> Stuff like this is starting to worry me.

I don’t understand how people can’t see that dangerous precedents have
already been set, that have undermined the concept of Freedom of Speech.
There are a lot of people in this country that need to wake up and
realize that our government is becoming the exact opposite of the ideals
that this country was founded on. It is becoming exactly what our
Consititution tried to protect us from. Yet, every time someone stands
up to point that out, they are labeled as un-patriotic (which is ironic,
considering that speaking against your government is the most patriotic
thing you can do), conspiracy-theory whackos who don’t understand that
times have changed, and so should the Constitution.

It almost seems as though we have forgotten EVERY lesson history has
taught us.

-Mike K.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

This is beyond the pale, I would have expected it to have happened much more
often then it has. Ashcroft and the Patriot Act gave way to much power to
prosecutors to level charges like this. There was a rash of such cases right
after Columbine with a number of innocent kids ending up either in jail or
forever banned from there schools.

Zero tolerance policies are so totally misapplied by schools and any sane
reading of the constitution would have to find them unconstitutional. When 6
year old kids are charged with sexual abuse or high school kids are kicked
out of school for giving a friend and aspirin all under the guise of Zero
tolerance polices. Yet those very same schools claim they are powerless to
prevent bullying, intolerance and bigotry it is very clear that the US
school system is so badly managed as to be un-repairable.

Bill Gates addressed the National Governors Association this week and he
said that US 4th graders lead the world in academic achievement but by the
time those same kids graduate high school they come in 29th when comparing
industrialized nations. And that we would be even lower if India and China
were counted. He said one University in India graduates more engineers each
year then all of the US Universities combined. Thank god that our economy is
still strong enough to attract all those Indian kids to come work here or we
would be in real trouble right now. We can’t hope to maintain our position
in the world if we don’t radically fix our public high schools and do it
soon.

Gary Stein

“John R. Marshall” <kc9etp@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:d03kkn$ohe$1@server1.darklock.com
> Stuff like this is starting to worry me.
>
> from
> http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof
>
> A George Rogers Clark High School junior arrested Tuesday for making
> terrorist threats told LEX 18 News Thursday that the “writings” that got
> him arrested are being taken out of context.
>
> Winchester police say William Poole, 18, was taken into custody Tuesday
> morning. Investigators say they discovered materials at Poole’s home that
> outline possible acts of violence aimed at students, teachers, and police.
>
> Poole told LEX 18 that the whole incident is a big misunderstanding. He
> claims that what his grandparents found in his journal and turned into
> police was a short story he wrote for English class.
>
> “My story is based on fiction,” said Poole, who faces a second-degree
> felony
> terrorist threatening charge. “It’s a fake story. I made it up. I’ve been
> working on one of my short stories, (and) the short story they found was
> about zombies. Yes, it did say a high school. It was about a high school
> over ran by zombies.”
>
> Even so, police say the nature of the story makes it a felony. “Anytime
> you
> make any threat or possess matter involving a school or function it’s a
> felony in the state of Kentucky,” said Winchester Police detective Steven
> Caudill.
>
> Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.
>
> “It didn’t mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn’t mention
> (George
> Rogers Clark High School), didn’t mention no principal or cops, nothing,”
> said Poole. “Half the people at high school know me. They know I’m not
> that
> stupid, that crazy.”
>
> On Thursday, a judge raised Poole’s bond from one to five thousand dollars
> after prosecutors requested it, citing the seriousness of the charge.
>
> Poole is being held at the Clark County Detention Center.
>
> –
> John R. Marshall
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something that
should have been investigated.

Although, if a person is accused of a serious crime, it is pretty likely
they are going to say whatever they can to make it seem like they are
innocent.

DA’s usually don’t arrest people with very little evidence, so I’m guessing
there is more to the story than just that news snippet.

It is actions like these the help prevent needless school shooting
massacres from happening.

Rodney

“John R. Marshall” <kc9etp@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:d03kkn$ohe$1@server1.darklock.com
> Stuff like this is starting to worry me.
>
> from
> http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof
>
> A George Rogers Clark High School junior arrested Tuesday for making
> terrorist threats told LEX 18 News Thursday that the “writings” that got
> him arrested are being taken out of context.
>
> Winchester police say William Poole, 18, was taken into custody Tuesday
> morning. Investigators say they discovered materials at Poole’s home that
> outline possible acts of violence aimed at students, teachers, and police.
>
> Poole told LEX 18 that the whole incident is a big misunderstanding. He
> claims that what his grandparents found in his journal and turned into
> police was a short story he wrote for English class.
>
> “My story is based on fiction,” said Poole, who faces a second-degree
> felony
> terrorist threatening charge. “It’s a fake story. I made it up. I’ve been
> working on one of my short stories, (and) the short story they found was
> about zombies. Yes, it did say a high school. It was about a high school
> over ran by zombies.”
>
> Even so, police say the nature of the story makes it a felony. “Anytime
> you
> make any threat or possess matter involving a school or function it’s a
> felony in the state of Kentucky,” said Winchester Police detective Steven
> Caudill.
>
> Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.
>
> “It didn’t mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn’t mention
> (George
> Rogers Clark High School), didn’t mention no principal or cops, nothing,”
> said Poole. “Half the people at high school know me. They know I’m not
> that
> stupid, that crazy.”
>
> On Thursday, a judge raised Poole’s bond from one to five thousand dollars
> after prosecutors requested it, citing the seriousness of the charge.
>
> Poole is being held at the Clark County Detention Center.
>
> –
> John R. Marshall
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something that
> should have been investigated.

I disagree 100%. Every citizen of this nation has the right to speak,
write, and produce any communication that they wish. We explicitly
denied our government the power to choose which communication is good
and which is bad, for a reason. That reason can be found throughout
history, and our founding fathers had learned from that history.

Governments, by their very nature, eventually grow too powerful for the
good of the people. And governments should always be challenged.
Standing up to question the government is not only our right, but it’s
one of the most patriotic things we can do.

And I don’t understand people who don’t agree with the “slippery slope”
argument. Take a history lesson or two, people. It’s not that hard to
figure out where this country is headed in the next 100 years.

-Mike K.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
news:d05nf6$j9t$1@server1.darklock.com
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something
>> that
>> should have been investigated.
>
> I disagree 100%.

Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
disagree.

That’s what the nature of the police department is. To investigate crimes
and help to prevent future crimes (and to enforce the current laws).

The kid broke the law, so the police had to enforce it (at the very least
investigate).

> And I don’t understand people who don’t agree with the “slippery slope”
> argument. Take a history lesson or two, people. It’s not that hard to
> figure out where this country is headed in the next 100 years.

Because there are always “what ifs”. The “slopes” are most of the time
overly extreme viewpoints, just there to try to make a point.

If I look at our country 100 years ago and look at our country today, I’m
happy with the general direction it seems to be going.


Rodney

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> If I look at our country 100 years ago and look at our country today, I’m
> happy with the general direction it seems to be going.

Most the changes from 100 years ago happen to be equality issues, which
is a good thing. However, if you compare 5 years ago to now and where
we’re heading… it’s a lot different. Our rights are being taken away
from us. Our corrupt government is becoming a monopoly and is probably
violating it’s own anti-trust laws. I’ve had experiance with the court
system here and it’s clearly a corrupt system. I really don’t think
think it’s safe to live in the US and I’m seriously considering moving
elsewhere.

  • Gilby

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Thought police are in full bloom . . .

I guess you have to put a disclaimer on potential works of fiction now.

JD

“John R. Marshall” <kc9etp@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:d03kkn$ohe$1@server1.darklock.com
> Stuff like this is starting to worry me.
>
> from
> http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof
>
> A George Rogers Clark High School junior arrested Tuesday for making
> terrorist threats told LEX 18 News Thursday that the “writings” that got
> him arrested are being taken out of context.
>
> Winchester police say William Poole, 18, was taken into custody Tuesday
> morning. Investigators say they discovered materials at Poole’s home that
> outline possible acts of violence aimed at students, teachers, and police.
>
> Poole told LEX 18 that the whole incident is a big misunderstanding. He
> claims that what his grandparents found in his journal and turned into
> police was a short story he wrote for English class.
>
> “My story is based on fiction,” said Poole, who faces a second-degree
> felony
> terrorist threatening charge. “It’s a fake story. I made it up. I’ve been
> working on one of my short stories, (and) the short story they found was
> about zombies. Yes, it did say a high school. It was about a high school
> over ran by zombies.”
>
> Even so, police say the nature of the story makes it a felony. “Anytime
> you
> make any threat or possess matter involving a school or function it’s a
> felony in the state of Kentucky,” said Winchester Police detective Steven
> Caudill.
>
> Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.
>
> “It didn’t mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn’t mention
> (George
> Rogers Clark High School), didn’t mention no principal or cops, nothing,”
> said Poole. “Half the people at high school know me. They know I’m not
> that
> stupid, that crazy.”
>
> On Thursday, a judge raised Poole’s bond from one to five thousand dollars
> after prosecutors requested it, citing the seriousness of the charge.
>
> Poole is being held at the Clark County Detention Center.
>
> –
> John R. Marshall
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 09:42 pm, Rodney Blackwell wrote:

> “Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
> news:d05nf6$j9t$1@server1.darklock.com
>> Rodney Blackwell wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something
>>> that
>>> should have been investigated.
>>
>> I disagree 100%.
>
> Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
> disagree.
>
> That’s what the nature of the police department is. To investigate crimes
> and help to prevent future crimes (and to enforce the current laws).
>
> The kid broke the law, so the police had to enforce it (at the very least
> investigate).[/color]

If the kid broke the law for writing a story about zombies attacking a
school, then Tom Clancy should be in prison for a dozen or so direct
attacks on the president/government.

If the government takes a zombie story seriously we have far greater
problems to worry about… THE DEAD HAVE RISEN FROM THEIR GRAVES AND ARE
NOW WALKING UPON THE EARTH!!!


John R. Marshall

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

I’m concerned about people with the same attitude as you, Rodney. I’ve
met more and more people lately who feel that trouncing others’ rights
is perfectly fine if it means a more secure society.

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something that
> should have been investigated.
>
> Although, if a person is accused of a serious crime, it is pretty likely
> they are going to say whatever they can to make it seem like they are
> innocent.
>
> DA’s usually don’t arrest people with very little evidence, so I’m guessing
> there is more to the story than just that news snippet.
>
> It is actions like these the help prevent needless school shooting
> massacres from happening.
> –
> Rodney
>
>
> “John R. Marshall” <kc9etp@arrl.net> wrote in message
> news:d03kkn$ohe$1@server1.darklock.com
>
>>Stuff like this is starting to worry me.
>>
>>from
>>http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614&nav=EQlpWjof
>>
>>A George Rogers Clark High School junior arrested Tuesday for making
>>terrorist threats told LEX 18 News Thursday that the “writings” that got
>>him arrested are being taken out of context.
>>
>>Winchester police say William Poole, 18, was taken into custody Tuesday
>>morning. Investigators say they discovered materials at Poole’s home that
>>outline possible acts of violence aimed at students, teachers, and police.
>>
>>Poole told LEX 18 that the whole incident is a big misunderstanding. He
>>claims that what his grandparents found in his journal and turned into
>>police was a short story he wrote for English class.
>>
>>“My story is based on fiction,” said Poole, who faces a second-degree
>>felony
>>terrorist threatening charge. “It’s a fake story. I made it up. I’ve been
>>working on one of my short stories, (and) the short story they found was
>>about zombies. Yes, it did say a high school. It was about a high school
>>over ran by zombies.”
>>
>>Even so, police say the nature of the story makes it a felony. “Anytime
>>you
>>make any threat or possess matter involving a school or function it’s a
>>felony in the state of Kentucky,” said Winchester Police detective Steven
>>Caudill.
>>
>>Poole disputes that he was threatening anyone.
>>
>>“It didn’t mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn’t mention
>>(George
>>Rogers Clark High School), didn’t mention no principal or cops, nothing,”
>>said Poole. “Half the people at high school know me. They know I’m not
>>that
>>stupid, that crazy.”
>>
>>On Thursday, a judge raised Poole’s bond from one to five thousand dollars
>>after prosecutors requested it, citing the seriousness of the charge.
>>
>>Poole is being held at the Clark County Detention Center.
>>
>>–
>>John R. Marshall
>>
>
>
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
> Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
> disagree.

Rodney, it is important to understand the difference between an
unbalanced criminal who attempts to kill school children, and a
creative, imaginative school student.

You were not shot at by some kid fantasizing about zombies. That kid
broke no law, and did no harm to anyone. The government does not have
the right (Constitutionally) to decide what forms of literature are
appropriate and which are not.

I would be so quick to disagree. I believe in freedom and liberty. I
believe that some issues are tough to deal with, but that fact does not
give the government the right to interfere in the lives of innocent
individuals. The concept that we give up just a few small liberties in
order for a little bit of safety is contradictory.

Let’s look at the founding principles of this nation:

The founders of this nation believed deeply in Social Contract Theory
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Social%20Contract%20Theory. One
of the founding principles of Social Contract Theory is the idea that
sacrificing your liberties for temporary safeties defeats the whole purpose.

Also, for your reluctance to understand why the slippery slope theory is
so dangerous:

Our entire judicial system is predicated on the notion of precendents.
That in itself should say enough. Once we give the government the right
to deny the people to express a thought, any thought, they can now use
that precedent against the people in the future to deny the people other
thoughts.

The fact that this child can be labeled a suspected criminal (and much
worse, “terrorist”) for writing a story about zombies, is not only
outrageous, it’s downright preposterous.

We’re trying to protect these children. Falsely turning them into
suspected criminals has the opposite effect of protection. It is a
dangerous and careless harm to these children, their families, their
peers, and their communities.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/freecomm.html

-Mike K.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“John R. Marshall” <kc9etp@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:d06bjr$5th$1@server1.darklock.com
> On Wednesday 02 March 2005 09:42 pm, Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
>> “Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
>> news:d05nf6$j9t$1@server1.darklock.com…[color=darkred]
>>> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>>>> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something
>>>> that
>>>> should have been investigated.
>>>
>>> I disagree 100%.
>>
>> Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
>> disagree.
>>
>> That’s what the nature of the police department is. To investigate crimes
>> and help to prevent future crimes (and to enforce the current laws).
>>
>> The kid broke the law, so the police had to enforce it (at the very least
>> investigate).
>
>
> If the kid broke the law for writing a story about zombies attacking a
> school, then Tom Clancy should be in prison for a dozen or so direct
> attacks on the president/government.[/color]

Again, we don’t know the whole story, only the little snippets from the news
article. Of course the kid is going to say he wasn’t going to do it for
real.

Even if it wasn’t real, I have no problem with the police investigating the
issue. That’s how these things get prevented.


Rodney

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
news:d071l0$nuu$1@server1.darklock.com
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>>
>> Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
>> disagree.
>
> Rodney, it is important to understand the difference between an
> unbalanced criminal who attempts to kill school children, and a
> creative, imaginative school student.

Right, however, in this case, we don’t know which is which. Are you claiming
to know all the facts and to know for certain what was going on in this kids
mind?

Do you know what his true intentions were?

> You were not shot at by some kid fantasizing about zombies. That kid
> broke no law, and did no harm to anyone. The government does not have
> the right (Constitutionally) to decide what forms of literature are
> appropriate and which are not.

Actually, the kid did break a law, which is why they arrested him.

At what point does it stop becoming “literature” and start becoming a
“threat”? Once the kid has already shot up the school?

> Our entire judicial system is predicated on the notion of precendents.

I don’t agree that precendents set the final word, or that our system is
predicated on it.

New precendents are created all the time, and old precendents are thrown out
for irrelevancy all the time.
>
> The fact that this child can be labeled a suspected criminal (and much
> worse, “terrorist”) for writing a story about zombies, is not only
> outrageous, it’s downright preposterous.

Again, we don’t know the facts here, only the few snippets that were
reported.

If it is just story though, I don’t see the harm in at least investigating
it (not necessarily arresting the kid), just to make sure that he had no
intentions behind it.

> We’re trying to protect these children. Falsely turning them into
> suspected criminals has the opposite effect of protection. It is a
> dangerous and careless harm to these children, their families, their
> peers, and their communities.

We don’t know if it was false or not.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“-Deborah-” <deborah@work.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:d06u9g$l8o$1@server1.darklock.com
> I’m concerned about people with the same attitude as you, Rodney. I’ve
> met more and more people lately who feel that trouncing others’ rights is
> perfectly fine if it means a more secure society.

I’m concerned that no one here seems to think that maybe, just maybe,
there is more to the story.

It seems so easy to speak of “trouncing rights” and “free speech”, when it
doesn’t hit close to home for you personally.

I believe in the freedom of speech, and I don’t want to see our rights as US
Citizens dwindled away by more and more laws.

However, at the same time, I can at least understand why such actions are
necessary.

I can understand why this might be a case where a crime was prevented.

I don’t know if they should have arrested the kid. Maybe he did break a law.
Maybe the kid is totally innocent and this case will be the one to start a
precedent that shows our rights are being violated and taken away by our
legislators.

Either way, I understand the need to at least investigate this kid,
because it has been shown through analyzing the PAST school shootings that
they are often planned out, written down, pre-threatened in some way or
another.

If they truly stopped a crime here, and saved dozens of lives, what worries
me more is the section of our society that says “they shouldn’t have stopped
the crime that way, it was a violation of his rights”.

That’s the talk of defense attorneys trying to free criminals.

What about the rights of the REST of society that get violated when these
things happen?

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
> Right, however, in this case, we don’t know which is which. Are you claiming
> to know all the facts and to know for certain what was going on in this kids
> mind?

I’m claiming to know enough that I know our government shouldn’t have
gotten involved.

> Do you know what his true intentions were?

This is EXACTLY my point. No one knows for sure what his intentions
are/were. No you, not me, not the school, not his parents, not the
government. For anyone to assume they understand what this kid was
thinking is wrong. To be suspected of a crime because the government
believes they have the right to guess what is going on in your mind, is
against every principle upon which this country was founded.

We are feel to think, feel, speak, write, publish, and believe as we
wish. That is the definition of freedom and liberty as we know it. What
we are not free to do is act as we wish. And this kid committed no
punishible act. Yet he has been labeled as a suspected “terrorist” by
his government. If you believe that that is rational, legal, and
acceptable; I’m sorry, but I can’t agree. Nor could the founders of this
nation.

> Actually, the kid did break a law, which is why they arrested him.
>
> At what point does it stop becoming “literature” and start becoming a
> “threat”? Once the kid has already shot up the school?

Yes. That’s the sad reality of it. That’s exactly when it stops becoming
a thought, and when it becomes a crime. We are not only constitutionally
protected from the so-call “thought police”, the UN re-affirmed those
basic human rights in 1948.

It’s sad that some people can’t understand that every person is free to
think, speak, believe, write, and publish as they wish; no matter who
disagrees with it. Freedom of speech is an absolute. It’s either
completely free, or it’s not at all.

>>Our entire judicial system is predicated on the notion of precendents.
>
> I don’t agree that precendents set the final word, or that our system is
> predicated on it.

I don’t claim to have a law degree, but it is a basic fact that our
legislative and judicial systems are predicated on the notion of precedents.

> New precendents are created all the time, and old precendents are thrown out
> for irrelevancy all the time.

Agreed. But once the precendents are set, it’s a long, hard fight to
have them reversed. In that time, irreparable damage is usually done.

>>The fact that this child can be labeled a suspected criminal (and much
>>worse, “terrorist”) for writing a story about zombies, is not only
>>outrageous, it’s downright preposterous.
>
> Again, we don’t know the facts here, only the few snippets that were
> reported.

I’m not speaking only specifically about this one case. I’m speaking
about the general case of our government currently overstepping their
bounds, in order to control the way we think, speak, and act.

> If it is just story though, I don’t see the harm in at least investigating
> it (not necessarily arresting the kid), just to make sure that he had no
> intentions behind it.

Investigating, maybe. So far as “investigation” means the school and the
child’s parents review the literature, then ask him about it. Instead,
this kid was arrested, his home was searched, and he was labeled as a
“terrorist” (charged with “terroristic threats”) in his community.

>>We’re trying to protect these children. Falsely turning them into
>>suspected criminals has the opposite effect of protection. It is a
>>dangerous and careless harm to these children, their families, their
>>peers, and their communities.
>
> We don’t know if it was false or not.

I believe it was, based on the small amount of information I have. If
the “writings” at all contained mention of “zombies”, how could one
believe otherwise?

-Mike K.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
news:d07btn$1sn$1@server1.darklock.com
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>>
>> Right, however, in this case, we don’t know which is which. Are you
>> claiming
>> to know all the facts and to know for certain what was going on in this
>> kids
>> mind?
>
> I’m claiming to know enough that I know our government shouldn’t have
> gotten involved.

If the kid broke the law, why shouldn’t the police get involved?

If the police can prevent a crime by investigating, why shouldn’t they?

I don’t see the rights violation in investigating a crime?

>> Do you know what his true intentions were?
>
> This is EXACTLY my point. No one knows for sure what his intentions
> are/were.

Right, so why not investigate? If someone makes a threat, that is against
the law.

That’s nothing new.

Making verbal or written threats has been against the law for years.

> punishible act. Yet he has been labeled as a suspected “terrorist” by
> his government. If you believe that that is rational, legal, and
> acceptable; I’m sorry, but I can’t agree. Nor could the founders of this
> nation.

The founders of this nation did not live in the same world we do today.

To try to fit our current lives and values into a system of ideals which was
written over 200 years ago doesn’t make sense to me.

I can understand that as a foundation, but to think that we aren’t
supposed to adapt and evolve our laws and values to fit our changing needs
just seems to be sticking your head in the sand.

> It’s sad that some people can’t understand that every person is free to
> think, speak, believe, write, and publish as they wish; no matter who
> disagrees with it. Freedom of speech is an absolute. It’s either
> completely free, or it’s not at all.

It’s sad that some people think that freedom of speech is an absolute?

Where did you get that? Where is that written? Why is your opinion of
freedom of speech supposed to be the defining way the police should act?

It has always been the case that there are limits. You can’t yell “fire” in
a crowded theatre, you can’t threaten someone (using your voice or paper).

> I’m not speaking only specifically about this one case. I’m speaking
> about the general case of our government currently overstepping their
> bounds, in order to control the way we think, speak, and act.

Well at least I understand that you’re not talking about the topic at hand
:slight_smile:

>> If it is just story though, I don’t see the harm in at least
>> investigating
>> it (not necessarily arresting the kid), just to make sure that he had no
>> intentions behind it.
>
> Investigating, maybe. So far as “investigation” means the school and the
> child’s parents review the literature, then ask him about it. Instead,
> this kid was arrested, his home was searched, and he was labeled as a
> “terrorist” (charged with “terroristic threats”) in his community.

Again, you don’t know all the facts. You don’t know if there was an
investigation (there usually is one before an arrest, even when the suspect
is the clear choice). The police and the DA don’t like to get cases thrown
out, so there must be more to the story than “someone read the story, the
kid was arrested”.

I don’t think the school staff has the tools or experience to investigate a
possible crime.

> I believe it was, based on the small amount of information I have. If
> the “writings” at all contained mention of “zombies”, how could one
> believe otherwise?

I think your bias on the general issue is clouding judgment in the case. Why
would you make ANY judgment before there are more facts?

Why not just say “I don’t know”?

It is possible that the kid put “zombies” in the story to cover his tracks
in case he did get questioned about it.

My point is, there is MUCH more to the case than the small information we
have. We don’t know what other information was uncovered in their
investigation before the kid was actually arrested.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:d05ou2$lfd$1@server1.darklock.com
> “Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
> news:d05nf6$j9t$1@server1.darklock.com
>> Rodney Blackwell wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> I’m not sure an arrest was necessary, but it was definitely something
>>> that
>>> should have been investigated.
>>
>> I disagree 100%.
>
> Get shot at a few times in your school, and you might not be so quick to
> disagree.[/color]

While I understand that the experience of having ones life at risk in such a
situation would make anyone wish to be able to stop even the slightest risk
of it happening again. One must weight carefully the costs of ever
increasing viglance against the actual results of that vigalance. One can
scrafice to much freedom in our ever increasing efforts to protect people
from each other.
>
> That’s what the nature of the police department is. To investigate crimes
> and help to prevent future crimes (and to enforce the current laws).

What law do you suppose this kid broke? If he didn’t name names, or
locations how can anyone know that he really was talking about his school?
If he made spoken threats that the Police are relying on for the charges
then they alone should be the basis of the charge and his story would not
play any part what so ever.

Gary Stein
>
> The kid broke the law, so the police had to enforce it (at the very least
> investigate).
>
>> And I don’t understand people who don’t agree with the “slippery slope”
>> argument. Take a history lesson or two, people. It’s not that hard to
>> figure out where this country is headed in the next 100 years.
>
> Because there are always “what ifs”. The “slopes” are most of the time
> overly extreme viewpoints, just there to try to make a point.
>
> If I look at our country 100 years ago and look at our country today, I’m
> happy with the general direction it seems to be going.
>
> –
> Rodney
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:d07aot$1ao$1@server1.darklock.com
> “-Deborah-” <deborah@work.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:d06u9g$l8o$1@server1.darklock.com
>> I’m concerned about people with the same attitude as you, Rodney. I’ve
>> met more and more people lately who feel that trouncing others’ rights is
>> perfectly fine if it means a more secure society.
>
>
> I’m concerned that no one here seems to think that maybe, just
> maybe, there is more to the story.
>
> It seems so easy to speak of “trouncing rights” and “free speech”, when it
> doesn’t hit close to home for you personally.
>
> I believe in the freedom of speech, and I don’t want to see our rights as
> US Citizens dwindled away by more and more laws.
>
> However, at the same time, I can at least understand why such actions
> are necessary.
>
> I can understand why this might be a case where a crime was prevented.
>
> I don’t know if they should have arrested the kid. Maybe he did break a
> law. Maybe the kid is totally innocent and this case will be the one to
> start a precedent that shows our rights are being violated and taken away
> by our legislators.
>
> Either way, I understand the need to at least investigate this kid,
> because it has been shown through analyzing the PAST school shootings that
> they are often planned out, written down, pre-threatened in some way or
> another.
>
> If they truly stopped a crime here, and saved dozens of lives, what
> worries me more is the section of our society that says “they shouldn’t
> have stopped the crime that way, it was a violation of his rights”.
>
> That’s the talk of defense attorneys trying to free criminals.
>
> What about the rights of the REST of society that get violated when these
> things happen?
>

Well frankly that is the risk you take if you want to live in a free
society. If you want to live in a police state then that’s your choice but I
don’t think your living in the right country if that’s truly what you want.

Mike said it clearly a thought is not now nor ever should be a crime in a
free society some overt action must take place in order for a crime to be
committed. Yes threats have been criminalized for many years but they have
to be specific and credible in order for there to be a crime. Saying I want
to kill some one is not a credible threat no matter how afraid a statement
like that might make you feel. One must say I am going to kill Fred or I am
going to kill the Jocks at my school in order for the threat to be against
the law. We can not allow the legal system the power to assign motivation to
non-specific words or actions if we want to remain free. Living free means
one is willing to accept the risks that that implies that is what the
founders meant by the social contract.

Gary Stein
>
>

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

“Gary Stein” <ge.stein@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:d07h4d$7qo$1@server1.darklock.com

> Well frankly that is the risk you take if you want to live in a free
> society. If you want to live in a police state then that’s your choice but
> I don’t think your living in the right country if that’s truly what you
> want.

I don’t think what I talked about was anywhere near a “police state”.

A free society doesn’t mean that there are no laws and people can’t be
investigated.

> Mike said it clearly a thought is not now nor ever should be a crime in a
> free society some overt action must take place in order for a crime to be
> committed.

I never said anything about a thought being criminalized. When that
“thought” becomes a spoken threat or a written threat, that’s where the law
comes in.

Yes threats have been criminalized for many years but they have
> to be specific and credible in order for there to be a crime. Saying I
> want to kill some one is not a credible threat no matter how afraid a
> statement like that might make you feel. One must say I am going to kill
> Fred or I am going to kill the Jocks at my school in order for the threat
> to be against the law.

And we don’t know all the facts of this case to say that those conditions
haven’t been met.

Re: Student Arrested for zombie attack plan

Rodney, you hear CA passed a law that says websites about clowns are illegal
because they incite violence in society. Proprietors of such websites who
reside in california can now be prosecuted for distrubing the peace.

Watch out for the g-man at your door.

Thanks god that is not true, but imagine if it was, and it is an only small
departure from the Zombie case…The existence of a law does not validate
its intent. Should police departments investigate over violations in law
that involve interracial sexual activity, maybe races living together,
should they investigate to see that no one is using contraception? NO
because those are all activites we do in private. Privacy is a protected
right under our constitution according to 40 years of “precedent” setting
case law, but police depts. doing what they did in this case only adds to
the degredation fo that precendent. Only here it isn’t privacy it is the
definition of out first amendment rights.

Brian

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:d07d2l$2fo$1@server1.darklock.com
> “Mike King” <webdiscuss@webcodefocus.com> wrote in message
> news:d07btn$1sn$1@server1.darklock.com
>> Rodney Blackwell wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Right, however, in this case, we don’t know which is which. Are you
>>> claiming
>>> to know all the facts and to know for certain what was going on in this
>>> kids
>>> mind?
>>
>> I’m claiming to know enough that I know our government shouldn’t have
>> gotten involved.
>
> If the kid broke the law, why shouldn’t the police get involved?
>
> If the police can prevent a crime by investigating, why shouldn’t they?
>
> I don’t see the rights violation in investigating a crime?
>
>
>
>>> Do you know what his true intentions were?
>>
>> This is EXACTLY my point. No one knows for sure what his intentions
>> are/were.
>
> Right, so why not investigate? If someone makes a threat, that is against
> the law.
>
> That’s nothing new.
>
> Making verbal or written threats has been against the law for years.
>
>
>> punishible act. Yet he has been labeled as a suspected “terrorist” by
>> his government. If you believe that that is rational, legal, and
>> acceptable; I’m sorry, but I can’t agree. Nor could the founders of this
>> nation.
>
> The founders of this nation did not live in the same world we do today.
>
> To try to fit our current lives and values into a system of ideals which
> was written over 200 years ago doesn’t make sense to me.
>
> I can understand that as a foundation, but to think that we aren’t
> supposed to adapt and evolve our laws and values to fit our changing needs
> just seems to be sticking your head in the sand.
>
>
>> It’s sad that some people can’t understand that every person is free to
>> think, speak, believe, write, and publish as they wish; no matter who
>> disagrees with it. Freedom of speech is an absolute. It’s either
>> completely free, or it’s not at all.
>
> It’s sad that some people think that freedom of speech is an absolute?
>
> Where did you get that? Where is that written? Why is your opinion of
> freedom of speech supposed to be the defining way the police should act?
>
> It has always been the case that there are limits. You can’t yell “fire”
> in a crowded theatre, you can’t threaten someone (using your voice or
> paper).
>
>
>> I’m not speaking only specifically about this one case. I’m speaking
>> about the general case of our government currently overstepping their
>> bounds, in order to control the way we think, speak, and act.
>
> Well at least I understand that you’re not talking about the topic at hand
> :slight_smile:
>
>
>>> If it is just story though, I don’t see the harm in at least
>>> investigating
>>> it (not necessarily arresting the kid), just to make sure that he had no
>>> intentions behind it.
>>
>> Investigating, maybe. So far as “investigation” means the school and the
>> child’s parents review the literature, then ask him about it. Instead,
>> this kid was arrested, his home was searched, and he was labeled as a
>> “terrorist” (charged with “terroristic threats”) in his community.
>
> Again, you don’t know all the facts. You don’t know if there was an
> investigation (there usually is one before an arrest, even when the
> suspect is the clear choice). The police and the DA don’t like to get
> cases thrown out, so there must be more to the story than “someone read
> the story, the kid was arrested”.
>
> I don’t think the school staff has the tools or experience to investigate
> a possible crime.
>
>
>> I believe it was, based on the small amount of information I have. If
>> the “writings” at all contained mention of “zombies”, how could one
>> believe otherwise?
>
> I think your bias on the general issue is clouding judgment in the case.
> Why would you make ANY judgment before there are more facts?
>
> Why not just say “I don’t know”?
>
> It is possible that the kid put “zombies” in the story to cover his
> tracks in case he did get questioned about it.
>
> My point is, there is MUCH more to the case than the small information we
> have. We don’t know what other information was uncovered in their
> investigation before the kid was actually arrested.
>
>
>[/color]