Spoke patterns...why do this?

http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30041

Is there any other reason for doing what’s done with the spokes in the above link other than it looks great (which it does)?

Andrew

I don’t know, but this looks like a pretty cool too:

HI,

ok the second pattern is very cool, I had it on my freestyle-unicycle some time ago. But it is not very strong. After a while the rim was not straight anymore. And it is very hard to tighten the spokes to get a perfect wheelset again. So I would not recommend that.
The second one is more useful. It is simply a 3X lacing style, but at the last crossing, you turn the spokes one time around the other. Add 2 mm to the length you get from a spoke length calculator and the spokes will fit with that method. This method should increase the strength of the wheel. I do not know if it really helps. Anyway it looks cool, too.

cu

Mo

Ruhrpott Unitrials

Some Down Hill mountain bike wheel builders mke them like that because they say it makes them stronger. Perhaps because for a wheel to go out of true, it would have to pull 3 spokes, not just one?

Threads in the mountainbike forums have as many arguments against this as for it.

It sure looks neat though!

I think the only way to tell would be to do some exhaustive repeatable tests. However, I can’t imagine that it is stronger. It think it could only be weaker.

Actually in a “normal” wheel several spokes actively participate in resisting rim deformation. Wheels go out of true primarily because a) the spokes are taking a new cold set which is a different line from just before, b) because nipples rotate in the rim, since there was uncorrected spoke windup, resulting in less tension in that spoke, c) rim non-elastic deformation because the wheel was overwhelmed by an impact, usually because it was underbuilt in some way, d) the spokes are damaged or bent from the side due to impact on rocks or sticks.

Good wheelbuilding usually prevents the first three from happening.

Well there you go! Right from ‘the man’ himself!

Jeesh, Sofa. I think that response was couched in irony… :stuck_out_tongue:

Man, I try to pay a compliment and U-Turn it right around!

So which one should be stronger? The one post that compared the two referred to both of them as the “second” one.

Also where could you get a rim with the spokes like in the first, black one?

The one with the twisted spokes should be stronger than the one with the pretty pattern. But a normally spoked, and well-built wheel should out-strong them all. I base this not so much on science but on the hundreds of millions of bikes in the world that are bilt that way.
[b]

You would have to make it, or find someone to make it for you.

there’s a mountain biker i know who had the wrap=around style of wheel build on his bike, and i was asking him about it. He had been riding the same wheels for 12 years, and hadn’t tured them once. He seemed to swear by that wheel building technique. It’s supposed to be more latterally rigid, i think.

As for the second design, i don’t think it is any weaker than a regular 3-cross pattern, just different.

-Ryan

i know the ultimate reason why they have this: It looks pretty darn cool. I dont care if it makes it any stronger it looks awesome.

Re: Spoke patterns…why do this?

The biggest problem/benefit with this wheel is that it is soft on power delivery. When you pedal on a normal hub the spokes are allready lined up in the direction of pull so the rim feels it immedialtey. With this wheel the spokes are crooked, so the first thing they do when pedaling is that half straighten a bit, and the other half get more crooked.

I don’t see any benefit in lateral strength. Actually, it’s probably a bit worse since there is more length in each spoke. Longer spokes stretch more with a given pull, which means that the rim moves more with a side force.

All that twisting and bending of the spokes as the wheel and hub interact will probably fatigue the spokes where they begin to twist. I wouldn’t be surprised if they started breaking at those points.

It does look cool, though.

As for the second pattern, it doesn’t load the rim uniformly, which means that some sections of the rim are stressed higher than in a normal wheel. Therefore the spokes can’t be tightened as much as in a regular wheel so I’d say this one has got to be weaker than a regular wheel.

It looks REALLY cool, though, so if you’re light and fashion concious it might be something to try.

Anybody know what the german people who have the original thread are saying about it?

Try this

Edit: well seems as thought the bable fish translation doesn’t want to load like that, just go to the site and hit translate with the url

http://world.altavista.com/

Andrew, that “twisted” spoke pattern looks great. I had no idea something like that exists. --chirokid–

Re: Spoke patterns…why do this?

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:20:22 -0600, andrew_carter wrote:

>Is there any other reason for doing what’s done with the spokes in the
>above link other than it looks great (which it does)?

François in Amsterdam has his wheel laced like that too, see the photo
almost halfway down in <www.xs4all.nl/~klaasbil/muniweekend03.htm>. He
claims it provides more lateral strength although I can’t see how. He
had the wheel built for him by a LBS (Bikeplanet in Haarlem).

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict

I have a feeling you might need two points of contact with the ground for such a thing to work? Or at least training wheels on the front and rear. - John Foss commenting on a picture of a one-wheeled vehicle he saw on RSU.

Thanks, Handy Andy, but apparently none of the talk is about the spoke lacing…but someone bought it.

‘translated’ page (even though the translation is pretty messy, that sure is a neat feature)

REAR ONE.
Me my unemployed Muni is not over way gelaufen.Weil I now already ne time long the 24er QU Atsch has and with the other any more drives thought I, does not tick ich’s times when clearing up.
Cranks are of Monty and nail again fork are unzerkratzt from nimbus, and without dents, Velo saddle (KH), Suzue hub, double TRACK rim, Big Foot 24x3,0 coat and totally spoke-thought me so 150 euro VHB interlocked.
Greeting of olive

HP: Roland for me sends pictures into the forum (thanks)

Munimann attached this diagram:

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-21-2004 06:32 PM

GUI GUI
Skilled Unicyclist

Registered since: August 2003
Residence:
Contributions: 41
rear, muniman can give me times your mail address??
fit with springs the spokes well and come one well to the valve

Changed of GUI GUI to 01-21-2004 around 08:49 PM

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-21-2004 08:44 PM

wendino
unitrial & muni shop

Registered since: Mar 2002
Residence: Fuerth with Nuernberg
Contributions: 454
Rear one,
special times Muniman, stopped a picture nevertheless.
… little largely perhaps…

I have times still one purely.

@GuiGui
You usually nevertheless Andreas’s impeller in Dortmund, or?
That looks here however better. According to picture one can inflate that correctly

I think the price am fair!

Best regards

Roland

wendino this diagram attached:


municycle.com - unitrial & muni shop

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-21-2004 09:15 PM

wendino
unitrial & muni shop

Registered since: Mar 2002
Residence: Fuerth with Nuernberg
Contributions: 454
Rear one,
special times Muniman, stopped a picture nevertheless.
… little largely perhaps…

I have times still one purely.

@GuiGui
You usually nevertheless Andreas’s impeller in Dortmund, or?
That looks here however better. According to picture one can inflate that correctly

I think the price am fair!

Best regards

Roland


municycle.com - unitrial & muni shop

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-21-2004 09:21 PM

paule
Unitrial Bremen

Registered since: May 2003
Residence: Bremen
Contributions: 21
the thing bought!!!

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-23-2004 12:37 PM

Munimann
Mummies of best ones

Registered since: Oct 2002
Residence: Rade (in the nature park Aukrug) in Schleswig Holstein (Germany)
Contributions: 291
GUI GUI: That is the punishment, because you dat Paulchen the nose made bloody
To Neeee do not believe that, Paule was only faster.
Kind regards of olive

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-27-2004 05:51 PM

GUI GUI
Skilled Unicyclist

Registered since: August 2003
Residence:
Contributions: 41
naja much-calibrates better in such a way… (which means which on nem 24 "happens more waer…)

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-27-2004 06:49 PM

Munimann
Mummies of best ones

Registered since: Oct 2002
Residence: Rade (in the nature park Aukrug) in Schleswig Holstein (Germany)
Contributions: 291
@ GUI GUI: Are you in Bremen?auf the Convention in March?
It look play I also mit-90 kg pure steam roller against the remainder of the world mark whom I everything around the fork wickel
Greeting of olive

This contribution to a moderator announce | IP: Stored

01-30-2004 09:16 PM

GUI GUI
Skilled Unicyclist

Registered since: August 2003
Residence:
Contributions: 41
which Convention in March?
hehe I have 40kilo combat weight…
greeting
josh

next time i buy spokes to long and want a heavier wheel for no reason,i’ll lace one like that.

Then when you realize how silly you look send it to me.