No offense to Scott, but his hubs are a waste of money. $200 just for a hub, plus remachining the cranks ($100 discontinued cranks), when you could just as easily buy a cheaper, more proven Profile hub/crankset, or if weight mattered, an Onza set. Scott’s hub was a good idea conceptually, but in reality it’s a pretty big waste.
In reality, it may be a poor investment for you, but no offence, your arguments don’t work for me, personally.
Actually, the Bridgman hub is $150, the machining is $50. Kooka cranks are discontinued, but you can choose from any square taper bicycle cranks you wish. Kookas just happen seem to be the ones that everyone likes. I just bought an new set of 170 Kookas last week for the Muniac hub.
A profile hub is $299. Scott’s combination costs $200. Sure, I’m locking myself, pretty much into the Bridgman frame by this decision to go with his hub, but I’m looking forward to a Muni which meets my overall requirement of low weight and strength.
Scott’s hub has been tested well enough to satisfy me. I’ve been riding with Scott for the past year. He weighs around 190 and has put his lightfoot hub through plenty of abuse for the past year or so, and had no problems. His square taper setup has been in use by a good number of very aggressive riders for several years. That’s proven enough for me.
I’ve been riding on a Profile hub/crankset for 3 years. It’s served me well, but I’m tired of the creaking and thumping, and I want to try something lighter. The one time I tried to remove my Profile cranks turned out to be a disaster. The hub/crank interface was extremely tight and it was a MAJOR effort to remove the crank.
As for weight, I don’t see Onza’s on unicycle.com. Are they only available in the UK? I’ve asked before but nobody has come forth to say what the Onza hub actually weighs.
I believe Scott’s hub is designed/built to satisfy someone with my requirements (lightness and strength). It seems like the few others I’ve encountered on RSU who have similar requirements have been either been interested in Bridgman equipment or have built something on their own(Howard, Pritchett, did I miss anyone?)
I already have a really nice Muni. It’s strong, but heavy. My Vortex weighs about 16 lbs. With all the customizations I’ve put into it, I’ve spent over 2 grand on it. When I bought it 3 years ago, it was readily available from unicycle.com. Some would say that it was a waste of money. Look at the price of the Vortex frame on unicycle.com. $600! I believe this was a good investment, it’s value to me has been priceless. I’ve had the benefit of a great Muni from day one when I started riding.
Ok, so now I’m getting ready to assemble a 12-13lb Muni and I will spend more than a grand to get there. What would you do if someone said, here’s $1500. Come back in 3-6 months with the lightest, strongest Muni you can find. What would you put together?
Joe
Correction. The profile hub/crankset is $299. The Bridgman hub is $200 plus $100 for the Kooka cranks - so the cost is basically the same.
Initially. What about after a few rides and crashes?
Anybody can maintain their Profile hub (using great advice from John Childs, of course), and can, in fact, easily get compatible replacement parts (often under warranty) from a well-established, stable company. That is not true for the second combination.
This is not necessarily bad, though. It depends on what your criteria are. Maintainability may take second place to performance. In addition, if you are gentle on your equipment, excellent with your technique, or your application is mild compared to the specs of the gear, than maintainability is less important as a factor.
Similarly, a given event may be so important that gear is bought just for that event, and then discarded afterwards. Maintainability is, in that case, irrelevant.
Are you implying that Scott’s equipment falls apart after a few rides/crashes? 
As far as I’ve seen, most of Scott’s products have been ridden very aggressively and have stood the test of time and punishment. I haven’t seen anything he has built fall apart, and if it did, I trust he would rectify the problem.
Yes, I agree - anybody can maintain a Profile hub, if they like to spend their time doing this, and investing in the proper tools. I do not. My experience taking apart a profile was not pleasant and I would not want to repeat it. Moreover, Profiles are LOUD! The light foot is silent and maintenance free. This has been proven well enough for me.
As for stable companies, who’s to say Profile doesn’t go belly up next week? I’m not worried about Scott’s longevity in the busines or his support of his products.
As for compatible replacement parts, any bike crank will do on a Lightfoot hub. I don’t see a compatibility problem.
Maintainability is very important to me, very relevant. And the less maintenance I need to perform, the better. The most noticeable problem my Vortex has is the clunking, creaking Profiles, and with them, trust me, maintenance is VERY problematic for my particular Profiles. I can’t tell you how I’m looking forward to a lighter, silent, maintenance free Muni. I don’t expect I will ever need to do much to maintain the Lightfoot/Kooka combo.
The attactive thing about the Bridgman equipment is that I get performance (weight savings, silent) and BETTER maintainability (never have to futz with my cranks).
As for buying gear for an event and discarding it, what are you saying? By the time I scrape together the dough and finish building my next Muni, it will be at least 6 months from now. And I will expect to get years of hassle free performance from this investment. Maybe other products will be available then. But for now, I still believe that Scott’s equipment fits my long term requirements.
So I’m still waiting for your answer… hypothetically speaking, what would you assemble right now for with $1200 bucks to build the lightest strongest Muni possible (3 inch tire, 170 cranks etc). This is about what I expect to spend on the Wilder. Dave you have a lot information and experience with equipment. What would you do? I want to make sure I spend my money well Anybody?
My Profile hub and cranks have not been exactly trouble free. I broke a crank and had to Loctite a loose keyway. I was hoping that they would hold together better than that. Scott’s hub and the modified Kooka cranks have a chance to do better.
My Profile hub has been quiet. It has never made the creaking noises that I have heard from other Profile hubs. Maybe I got lucky. It would be interesting to track down the cause of the noise in Joe’s Profile hub. My guess is that it’s caused by a loose keyway. The loose keyway allows the spindle to grind on the hub body and that grinding is what makes the noise.
I still don’t understand what modifications Scott does to the taper. Are the flats at a different angle? Is it just a larger diameter so the spindle can be larger?
I am absolutely not implying that. I haven’t heard any reviews of that combination and I’m not extreme enough to buy one and put it to any extreme test. And I am sure that Scott backs up his products 100%. I just know that MUni and trials are hard on all equipment; as a result, most riders become mechanics because the LBS is useless. However, most riders are not going to invest in a shop press etc…
For the Profile hub, the tools are minimal. I think that your experience with the Profile was a little unusual. Maintenance free is good.
Profile is a market leader in many aspects of BMX and MB products and thus has resiliency. I wasn’t thinking about Scott’s longevity; more of Kooka’s.
Strictly speaking, that’s not true for several reasons.
1) First, there is an increasing tendency towards splined cranks, and there are multiple standards, including Octalink V1, Octalink V2, ISIS, Profile, not to mention KH, DM, and the like. Scott will also tell you there are different square taper standards. I’m no expert on these standards, but I know that when I check the catalog for cranks, the number of mountain cranksets that have a square taper is a small percentage of those available.
Here is a quote from the ISIS standard. ISIS stands for “International Spline Interface Standard”.
The International Spline Interface Standard (ISIS Drive) was conceived and executed for the following two reasons:
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To create a common bottom bracket/crankset interface that can be freely shared within the industry. Currently the industry is fragmented and nonstandardized with regard to the bottom bracket/crankset interface. This standard seeks to eliminate this problem and thus allow the easy and fully compatible exchange of parts among manufacturers.
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To eliminate or greatly reduce the current problems associated with bottom bracket and crankset interfaces. These problems include incompatibility, lack of crankset position control, insufficient interface strength, and difficulty in determining interface compatibility/conformance.
To me this should be the obvious choice, should there exist at least one living, vital, solid company that has ISIS cranks of sufficient ooomph for off-road unicycle trials. A quick look through the Quality Bike Parts catalog shows aluminum and carbon-fiber cranks of the proper length from: FSA, Race Face, and Truvativ, and I’m sure there are more out there (including Bonz, a Canadian company; see below). No extra machining necessary. Truvativ has “Trials” and “DH” cranksets; Race Face has a “DH” version. There is an issue with whether the spiders are removable or not; but that tends to be a minor issue. In addition, it should be an easy job to get a company to drill a few left-side cranks for the right side.
Note: Why does the Strongest Coker Wheel have square tapers? because people put everything from 110mm to 185mm cranks on it.
So the real question is: why doesn’t the Lightfoot have an ISIS interface? The standard has clearly defined dimensional specs for designers and builders. Although parts of it were designed for bicycles, it should be relatively easy to extend the standard to off-road unicycles. I know Scott had some reasoning going on (now inaccessible), but I should think that 1) there should be the strongest possible motivation to try to comply with the ISIS standard, and 2) this would be an excellent chance for an ambitious machinist and unicycle designer to make a name by extending the ISIS standard to include unicycles.
2) Second, I’m sure that not all bike cranks with square tapers are machinable to the Muniac specs. Examples might include carbon fiber ones.
3) Third, and perhaps most obvious, is that most square taper cranks are not designed for off-road trials and are thus unsuitable. Exceptions include Kookas ($110 or so), Echo Supa ($80), and the Bonz square taper (check out www.trialsin.com, for example) at $200. However, all of those require machining to be able to put on the Lightfoot, and you can’t put them on after the Lightfoot wheel has been built (although there may be shop presses that would allow the wheel to fit, they are probably more expensive than Scott’s, who is a professional machinist). The machining would void the crank warranty, as well.
I’d like to get a chance at your wheel.
If you never have a problem with the cranks, you’re absolutely right. If you do have a problem with the cranks, you’re talking complete wheel rebuild, together with spoke replacement (if you follow Jobst Brandt, which I do).
I was just saying that oftentimes pro riders use equipment that is ultra lightweight, knowing that it is for that race/competition only. They are not concerned with long-term serviceability the way you and I are. It sounds as though Scott’s equipment is just right for you, especially since you guys ride together a lot. For someone without immediate access to Scott’s expertise, a more serviceable solution might be practical.
Hmm… that’s a problem I’d like to tackle. I don’t have all the weight specs that I’d need, but I can get them with a little time. What’s my deadline? I’ll need to communicate with you about what equipment you are going to transfer from your present uni, whether you need an adjustable seat angle or not, brakes or not, and the like.
Oh - and is it $1200 or $1500? 
I don’t know if the flats are at a different angle. As I recall Scott’s explanation, there were a bunch of reasons for doing this, in no particular order: 1. The flats can be resurfaced and made more precise, allowing old or worn cranks to be re-used. 2. A better joint is established by ensuring the spindle and cranks can meet exactly. 3. With a beefier spindle, I think a wider opening might have been required on the crank, not sure about this. 4. By opening up the hole on the crank, slightly more surface area is gained where the faces meet. That’s all I remember, and I’m not sure if I explained it well, but I think I got at least some of it right. As I understand it, when square taper cranks are installed properly with a press, the spindle and cranks form such a tightly sealed joint, you might break the crank before the joint would be compromised. This manner of installing cranks is something I was unfamiliar with until it was explained, and it seemed counter-intuitive, needing the arbor-press and all. I’m ok with it now though.
Maybe once I’ve built my second Muni. Can’t be without a ride:)
Well, right night it’s roughly around $1200 (maybe more) based on the following.
Rim, haven’t decided yet between Alex and Sun Dblwide. I’m leaning toward the Alex for weight reduction.
Tube-something maybe on the lighter side. There are threads about this.
Tire Fireball mostly, of which I own two.
Spokes, whatever’s needed, not sure.
hub - Lightfoot or comparable weight, strength.
Cranks - Kooka or comparable (I have a pair of Kookas)
Pedals, something light. I could use my old Kona’s they’re acceptable for starters
Frame- whatever is lightest, strong, and works with the hub.
seatpost-whatever works with frame, is light etc.
brake bosses, brakes, brake mount not wanted and should not be there if they add weight.
I would prefer a seat post that accomodates the tilt I have now with my Wilder, but not essential in the beginning.
Seat plate carbon fiber.
Handle. either a modified Miyata or something comparable. Bridgman handles are not currently available. Maybe later.
Cover gemcrest.
I think that’s it. Did I miss sumthin?
So I wouldn’t need to purchase pedals, tire, or cranks, or carbon fiber base, necessarily.
I reckon there are two sorts of people, those who break cranks and those who don’t.
If you’re someone who doesn’t break cranks, then just get the unicycle.com square taper hub and some square taper cranks. These hubs are supposedly pretty strong now, stronger than the old suzue hubs. If you’re intending to ride light and not be hard on your equipment and want an absolute lightweight uni, then this is the way to go.
If you do break cranks ever, then you want something with much stronger cranks. But that isn’t the end of it. You also want something where it’s possible to replace the cranks. Whatever you ride, there’s a chance you’ll break the cranks. People have broken all types of cranks. Whatever is out there there’s a chance you’ll break it. It’s worth factoring in the amount of time and money it takes to replace the cranks in your maintability calculations. I think the onza cranks have self extracting bolts, so removing the cranks is pretty easy.
Cost of replacing onza cranks,
Time - Phone up unicycle.com, wait for a delivery. You can always buy a spare set, then there’s no waiting time. Once you get them, undo the self extracting bolts, put the new cranks on, screw in the bolts again. If you’ve got a spare set, this is about 20 minutes work max.
Money - $80 + shipping for a pair of cranks probably $10 or so = $90
Cost of replacing the lightfoot cranks
Time - Wheel unbuild, sending off to muniac, machining time, posting back, wheel rebuild. It’d be hard to see this taking less than a couple of weeks even if you sent everything by super expensive courier post.
Money - $100 for cranks + $50 for machining + $30 for wheel takedown + rebuild + shipping of hub and cranks there and back probably $30 = $210
Joe
Well said, Joe.
I’d like to hear any evidence that this is true. I think that the Suzue hubs are a fantastic deal, strong and cheap at the same time. And, as far as I know, they have been through hundreds of formula changes by now over many years, so that they are well dialed-in. I’m not sure the new hub is worth twice as much as the Suzue.
I’ve got absolutely no evidence for that, just what unicycle.com said about it. The suzue hub is $20 the Unicycle.com hub is $25 in the US. In the UK it’s the other way round, £36 vs £28 for the unicycle.com one. Either way it isn’t much different. It’s a wider hub and has bolts not nuts, both of which should be definate advantages though.
Joe
Wider is only better when it makes a difference. For my 20" freestyle, wider doesn’t help because the Suzue is fine for that geometry. For the Coker, both are too narrow. Where the crossover point is, though, is unclear.
Unfortunately, there is no public study (that I could find, anyway) that directly examines brace angle vs lateral wheel strength. Jobst Brandt’s book is a little short in that respect. I contacted him via email but he didn’t have anything to add.
The bolts have a longer overlap area so should be better.
Joe, I think you’ve hit the crux of the biscuit. Although I ride pretty hard, I would be very surprised if I broke a Kooka. And although I would be out a few hundred bucks, this wouldn’t bother me. The benefits of a strong 12 lb Muni over time would far outweigh the inconvenience. I have another good Muni. There would be no downtime
I searched the threads and found not a single report of a broken Kooka. Does anyone know if this has ever happened? This would be interesting to know.
Joe Merrill
The guys in NZ were talking about them loosening up all the time on rides… Ken Looi and a couple of others.
And Sofa (after pounding, torquing and locktiting)
Thanks, but I’m wondering about bending or breaking, not loosening or rounding at the taper. My understanding is that once a crank begins to be compromised at the taper, it’s basically a losing battle. Maybe the NZ guys did not start out with well-installed cranks. It was an isolated case anyway, as far as I could tell.
I just read a whole ton of old threads on Kookas and it seems that all reviews are positive. I can’t find any reports of broken Kookas. Of course I find reports of hubs breaking with Kooka cranks.
Joe
Merrill: I don’t think you will have a problem with them. My 170mm Kookas have held up, and I even have 5" Kookas specially made by Darren Bedford on my trials.
My loosening issues are most likely due to any square taper, not Kooka’s specifically. There are no bad reviews of them on my review site
Re: Splines vs. square tapers.
When I was still at the pre purchase stage of a new muni I decided that I wanted splined hub/cranks so that I wouldn’t have to worry about a durability issue later on. At that point I wasn’t doing any drops or even riding very aggressively, but I didn’t know if drops were in my future and I didn’t want to have to go back later and spend more money to improve my muni. I was looking for the best bang for my buck and I wanted something that would last.
Note:
As it turned out I did replace my KH (old style heel striker) cranks with DM’ s splined cranks which fit beautifully on the KH hub. It’s quite a sweet ride and in just two more months I can jump on and start riding it again!
Cheers,
Jason