Spelling Police?

Folks,

Can we leave off the catty comments about peoples spelling? Not everyone in the group speaks (or in this case writes) English as their first language and even those of us who do, don’t always use the same version. For those who don’t understand what I mean by this try looking up the word COLOR in an ENGLISH dictionary and you’ll find it’s supposed to have a U in it.

I’m afraid I left spelling bees behind me in primary school and I don’t care to have people correct my grammar and spelling at every opportunity. So I imagine those of us who don’t normally use English, find this pedantic nitpicking even more offensive.

Language is about sharing ideas, concepts and experiences. If you read a post and can get the jist of what is being conveyed, then does it really matter if the writer has dropped a letter, infringed a grammatical rule or plainly has fat fingers and an overenthusiastic way with the keyboard?

Excellent idea. May we also omit the adjectives? The are becoming cumbersome and are essentially filler anyway.

Sorry, Noel…I tried to stop myself.

Re: Spelling Police?

> Can we leave off the catty comments about peoples spelling? Not everyone
> in the group speaks (or in this case writes) English as their first
> language and even those of us who do, don’t always use the same version.
> For those who don’t understand what I mean by this try looking up the
> word COLOR in an ENGLISH dictionary and you’ll find it’s supposed to
> have a U in it.

People’s, not peoples. No. Using a spellchecker catches most stuff, takes
seconds, and saves hundreds of people aggravation. Butch up. As for the
straw man, no one complains about British weirdness. :wink:
>
> I’m afraid I left spelling bees behind me in primary school and I don’t
> care to have people correct my grammar and spelling at every
> opportunity. So I imagine those of us who don’t normally use English,
> find this pedantic nitpicking even more offensive.

I don’t like whining, wanna truce?
>
> Language is about sharing ideas, concepts and experiences. If you read a
> post and can get the jist of what is being conveyed, then does it really
> matter if the writer has dropped a letter, infringed a grammatical rule
> or plainly has fat fingers and an overenthusiastic way with the
> keyboard?

Gist, not jist. Spellchecker would’ve caught it. Yes it matters.

Thank you Scott for illustrating my point so well.

Truce? Hadn’t realised we were at war.

By the way, the Unicyclist Forum doesn’t have a spell checker so your comment only applies if you use a mailer to edit your responses.

You can always copy it to Microsoft Word. Pointless arguments are worthless on a board for a purpose of helping others… yay or nay?

When stuff is butchered really bad, I think it’s a good idea to point it out.

In my opinion, the degree to which a person takes care to make sure their post is coherent, and spelled well, is at least a partial indication of their investment in the thoughts that are involved.

Second or third speakers of English, or the very young, have a way of writing that is easy to distinguish from those first speakers that can’t be bothered to be legible.

I like the corrections. When I was younger, my father used to correct my grammar as I spoke, and I really appreciate it now.
-David Kaplan

Re: Spelling Police?

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:52:46 -0500, Noel.Holland
<Noel.Holland.39mqa@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>Can we leave off the catty comments about peoples spelling? Not everyone
>in the group speaks (or in this case writes) English as their first
>language and even those of us who do, don’t always use the same version.
>For those who don’t understand what I mean by this try looking up the
>word COLOR in an ENGLISH dictionary and you’ll find it’s supposed to
>have a U in it.

Or you don’t find it at all. As a non-native English speaker, I agree
with Noel.

Having said that, I must add that there are a few people on this forum
infamous for bad spelling habits AND using “rare” words frequently. A
dictionary is of no use then.

So here is a free tip: paste the text into Word and check what the
spell checker comes up with, then on to the dictionary.

It would be better if spell wreckers were banned. :slight_smile:

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“fish, Timothy McVeigh, 312”

Re: Spelling Police?

> find this pedantic nitpicking even more offensive.

> Language is about sharing ideas, concepts and experiences.

Language is thought to have evolved to facilitate greater social
interaction. A social activity that apes engage in a lot is de-lousing
each other. That sounds pretty close to nitpicking to me. :wink:

See you tomorrow.

Arnold the Aardvark

British Unicycle Convention 9:
Kidderminster, 19-21 April 2002
http://www.unicycle.org.uk/buc9/

Re: Spelling Police?

> In my opinion, the degree to which a person takes care to make sure
> their post is coherent, and spelled well, is at least a partial
> indication of their investment in the thoughts that are involved.

I agree. I always review my comments before posting. I very
often find errors of speeling, errros grammaticationalistic (to quote Bush)
and, most importishly porely expressed… er… whatchamacallits. You
know…
er… thingummies. I try especially hard to be eligible. :slight_smile:

I never correct English expect as a joke, but if the post is virtually
incoherent
I hope it is from someone for whom English is not a first language. Then I
remind myself that my <pick a language> is much, much worse than their
English. [And the fact that US schools don’t teach children to spell OU
properly
is hardly the fault of those children. :slight_smile: ]

Arnold the Aardvark

British Unicycle Convention 9:
Kidderminster, 19-21 April 2002
http://www.unicycle.org.uk/buc9/

English is not my native language. I certainly appreciate being told about spelling errors (which I am trying to avoid) and grammatical errors (which I can’t avoid no matter how hard I keep trying).
Having stated that, I will freely admit that I got a kick out of some of the novel approaches to orthography I had the privilege of witnessing on this forum; many of the (intentional?) misspellings seemed quite funny.
All of you are aware of the difficulties in spelling and pronounciation which are nicely illustrated in this poem:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/clamen/misc/humour/TheChaos.html

The other day, I picked up the term “spoonerism”; here are some examples:

http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/archive/2002/04/15.html

Languages can be fun. Not quite as much as unicycling, though (just to add some unicycling content).
Misspellings do not bother me as long as the post remains comprehensible… Maybe errors should be pointed out but without flaming the creative (or ignorant) author. What about simple typos? Let’s not get too serious.
Sorry, I did not use a spellchecker before posting this.

Have fun,
Fred

Re: Spelling Police?

AccordNSX <AccordNSX.39vzn@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in
news:AccordNSX.39vzn@timelimit.unicyclist.com:

>
> When stuff is butchered really bad, I think it’s a good idea to point it
> out.
>

That should be “really badly”. :slight_smile:

John

Re: Spelling Police?

“fred” <fred.3b24a@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:fred.3b24a@timelimit.unicyclist.com
> All of you are aware of the difficulties in spelling and pronounciation
> which are nicely illustrated in this poem:

It’s not quite on topic, but I like this by Ogden Nash:

Coin brassy words at will, debase the coinage;
We’re in an if-you-cannot-lick-them-join age,
A slovenliness provides its own excuse age,
Where usage overnight condones misusage.
Farewell, farewell to my beloved language,
Once English, now a vile orangutanguage.

Arnold the Aardvark

Re: Re: Spelling Police?

That’s a good one, Arnold.

Fred

MAY-bee wee shood SIM-plee ryte MESS-eh-jez YOO-zing foe-NE-tic SPEH-ling in ING-glesh.

Re: Spelling Police?

On 18/4/02 1:19 pm, fred posted:

> Misspellings do not bother me as long as the post remains
> comprehensible… Maybe errors should be pointed out but without
> flaming the creative (or ignorant) author. What about simple typos?
> Let’s not get too serious.

It may be more polite to mention any errors privately to the originator
rather than to the whole group. (This is dependent, of course, on a valid
email address.)


Trevor Coultart

RE: Spelling Police?

> So I imagine those of us who don’t normally use English,
> find this pedantic nitpicking even more offensive.

My apologies to any non English-speaking natives whose spelling or grammar I
have ever corrected. I have not intentionally, and will not complain about
them (unless they are professional lexicographers). My ability to write
understandably in any language other than my native English is basically
nil.

My complaints are about native English speakers who should know better, and
should take the opportunity of all this newsgroup or forum writing to become
better writers. Sloppy spelling or grammar to me indicates a lack of
consideration for the reader. Everyone makes mistakes, and I don’t think
that’s the issue here. Some people spell better than others, and I don’t
think that’s the issue either. It’s up to you if you want to improve your
communication skills in the written form of your native tongue.

Some of us have spell-checkers built into our software. I do not recommend
my own Microsoft Outlook (unless you’re into viruses), but all I have to do
is remember to press F7 before I press Send, and many of my mistakes get
corrected. But you don’t need a computer to fix your writing, and I’d
probably consider it a hassle to cut & paste messages before sending them.

What everybody should do, before sending to this public forum, is read
what you wrote
first, before hitting Send. It’s a basic rule of all forms
of writing. If you are instant-messaging your friend, or sending any other
form of one-on-one or private communication, this is up to you. But for a
public forum with hundreds(?) of readers, I consider it a common courtesy to
at least glance at your message before sending it.

Some of us do still read this newsgroup in the form of email. That means
every newsgroup and forum message eventually hits their inbox. If you are
not writing to the entire group, or at least to an audience larger than the
author of the original message, you should be sending a private email.

> Language is about sharing ideas, concepts and experiences. If
> you read a post and can get the jist of what is being conveyed,
> then does it really matter if the writer has dropped a letter,
> infringed a grammatical rule or plainly has fat fingers and an
> overenthusiastic way with the keyboard?

No. It matters if they think their own variations on the language we use
here is more convenient for us to read. Take the opportunity to proof your
writing before you send it, and you’ll be a better writer for your trouble.
This will only serve you well in other parts of your life.

I used my involvement in this part of unicycling to improve my written
English. First as editor of On One Wheel in the early 80’s, and later with
the IUF magazine, and as a writer of many articles and letters about
unicycling. The advent of email only increased the amount of writing most of
us do, so it is an even more important part of how we communicate, and how
we are perceived by others.

It is your choice if you want to send a neat and readable message, or if
tossing something off as fast and sloppy as possible is good enough. It’s
like how we treat other parts of our lives. Would you rather go to lunch
with the co-worker with the clean car? Or the one who has to clear off the
seat, has papers, garbage, crumbs, spills, cups, wrappers all over the
floor, dashboard, and seats? And what’s that sticky stuff? To me it’s a
variation of the same thing.

Sorry, I’m long again. But to sum up, please assume people will make typing
mistakes. Please remember some of us did not grow up speaking English. Sure,
Yuichiro Kato’s English raises a smile. But he’s a voice from Japan we never
had before, and most of us don’t know how to talk to him, do we?

But at the same time, show some consideration to the people reading through
tons of posts. If we all use the same language, it’s faster and easier. Save
the slang, and the z’s instead of s’s for people who think it’s cool. And
learn how to spell! When I worked with high school students, I used to tell
them, “Every American should be able to speak, read, and write at least
one language.” This as a joke on our tendency not to be multi-lingual, yet
not even know our own language that well.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“I am never riding the wrong way on a busy street again, esp. when on the
phone.” - David Stone, on survival

This Definately calls for me to put Harper’s quote to good use!
In a similar thread Greg Harper wrote, “I think that English was never meant to be taken seriously. Its kind of like a cartoon language… transient and flexible like the elastic, animated characters of old.”
-David Kaplan

Q

That reminds me of an old joke:
Q: What do you call a person who speaks two languages?
A: Bi-lingual.

Q: What do you call a person who speaks three languages?
A: Tri-lingual.

Q: What do you call a person who speaks one language?
A: American.
:stuck_out_tongue: