So let's talk about rules then

General
1

Hey, action’s down to a low ebb here at the ng. Could it be the stock market?

Let’s talk about competition rules. I’ve opened discussions on iuf-discuss and
here for both IUF and USA rules and some good ideas have come in. I’m sure there
are others of you out there who were at either of the conventions this summer
(NUC and UNICON) who have opinions. What should we do different? Are there too
many entries for the large number of events? Too many age groups? How to weed
people out? And what about walking on rickety tables??

Let’s start arguing. Whatever we come up with will be brought before the rules
committees of USA and IUF, which you are welcome to join if interested.

John Foss

2

Re: So let’s talk about rules then

At 11:17 AM 08/28/1998 -0700, Foss, JohnX wrote:
>Hey, action’s down to a low ebb here at the ng. Could it be the stock market?
>
>Let’s talk about competition rules. I’ve opened discussions on iuf-discuss and
>here for both IUF and USA rules and some good ideas have come in.

Maybe the persons who attended the UNICON should start sharing your experiences.
Nobody have really posted anything about the UNICON. I know that they just
published the Results in a Home Page, but that is the cold facts. What was most
enjoyable? Any good story? Those of you who attended, what is the best thing you
got out of it? Will you start doing new things in a unicycle?

>I’m sure there are others of you out there who were at either of the
>conventions this summer (NUC and UNICON) who have opinions. What should we do
>different? Are there too many entries for the large number of events? Too many
>age groups? How to weed people out? And what about walking on rickety tables??
>
>Let’s start arguing.

OK. Let’s start arguing. I believe that there are too many age groups. I
especially dislike the Junior Experts and the 15- 29 Age Groups. Now I
will explain.

The UNICONs are not the World Competition. It is a Convention where the World
Championships are held. The World Championships are great, but the best part of
The UNICONs typically happens off Competition. Also, people who have not prepare
themselves and earn their right to compete, want to participate in every event.
That comes at a cost. It creates havoc to the organizer’s logistic and drives
the cost of running a UNICON up.

In my opinion, the only reason for the existence of age groups is to protect
persons off their prime, young prospects and Seniors, from persons in their best
years. Now we have Jr. Experts. I thought we always had them, they were just
called age groups. Now we have both Jr. Experts and I guess Nonexpert Jr.s. (age
groups). Jr. Experts is probably a better name for the age groups, so let’s use
it and invent some type of fancy name for the Under 12 Experts.

Why should people in their best year (15-18 and 19-29) have a protected age
group. If they are ready for competition, they should not be protected. If they
are not, why compete. They should enjoy the non- competitive part of the UNICON.
What we have seen thru all the UNICONs are on one hand, persons in their prime,
with a legitimate chance in Experts, going for an easy, unmeaningful medal. In
the other hand, way too many improvised routines that are a waste of our time,
and the host’s money.

So, my opinion is that we should have a really nice competition, limited to
those who have prepared themselves for it, and organize and market a lot of
non-competitive activities for the bulk of the attendees, who should enjoy, as
spectators, the performances of the unicyclists who prepared themselves, as well
as the non-competitive activities organize for them.

>Whatever we come up with will be brought before the rules committees of USA and
>IUF, which you are welcome to join if interested.

Going back to the Rules Committee, I believe that we should start a permanent
Judge’s Committee, totally independent of the Rules Committee. Of course, there
has to be good communication among both Committees.

Do you have enough?

Alberto Ruiz

Alberto Ruiz ruizb@coqui.net

3

RE: So let’s talk about rules then

John Hoy wrote:
>I wonder how many people don’t post because they don’t want to be on usenet.
>Similarly, I wonder how many don’t subscribe to the mailing list because of the
>spam, especially the spam for porno. I know one person who would like to
>subcribe but doesn’t because of the porno.

The spam can be quite annoying. Many people use filters to get rid of most of
it. I just delete it as it comes. It’s usually easy to spot because the message
is not being sent “to” you or the group. Otherwise the subject line usually
gives it away. It’s the same as the junk I have to scrape out of my mail box
every day, but less pervasive because it doesn’t use up trees (or space in my
mail box).

But aside from communicating by mail (which we still do in the rules committees
but not as much because it’s too slow), I don’t know how else to do this. I’m
open to ideas for alternate methods…

jf

4

RE: So let’s talk about rules then

Great comments about rules from Scott, Jack, Alberto, Johnathan, Claus and
others! Now I’d like to break it up by subject before we get confused at all the
ideas. If we discuss it enough, it should generate a wider interest in having a
separate mail list just for rules.

I asked Ken Fuchs about setting up a new mail list, but haven’t heard back on
this and other subjects. He may be out of town.

So I’m going to start some new subject lines on various rule areas. Please try
to stick to those, and add new ones only when it’s a different subject.

jf

5

Re: So let’s talk about rules then

Greetings

In message “Re: So let’s talk about rules then”, Alberto Ruiz wrote…
>At 11:17 AM 08/28/1998 -0700, Foss, JohnX wrote:
>
>The UNICONs are not the World Competition. It is a Convention where the World
>Championships are held. The World Championships are great, but the best part
>of The UNICONs typically happens off Competition.

I agree with that statement, and think we should ask the hosts to keep it in
mind when planning. A convenient place for practicing and goofing around
open to the late hours of the night is important. In Bottrop, we often felt
time pressure.

>So, my opinion is that we should have a really nice competition, limited to
>those who have prepared themselves for it, and organize and market a lot of

I agree, and I suggested that we work out a system of selecting the best riders.
Jonathan reponded to this but it was not followed up by discussion. I still
maintain that we allow people to declare their best time for races in the
various categories, and/or their IUF skill level, or some other criterion, and
that we trust them. This will eliminate complicated procedures such as the video
screening done in Japan by the JUA.

>
>>Whatever we come up with will be brought before the rules committees of USA
>>and IUF, which you are welcome to join if interested.
>
>Going back to the Rules Committee, I believe that we should start a permanent
>Judge’s Committee, totally independent of the Rules Committee. Of course, there
>has to be good communication among both Committees.

What happened to the idea of establishing a rules mailing list?

>Do you have enough?

Stay on top, Jack Halpern, IUF Vice President Website: http://www.kanji.org

6

Re: So let’s talk about rules then

On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Alberto Ruiz wrote:

> At 11:17 AM 08/28/1998 -0700, Foss, JohnX wrote:
> >Hey, action’s down to a low ebb here at the ng. Could it be the stock market?
> >

I wonder how many people don’t post because they don’t want to be on usenet.
Similarly, I wonder how many don’t subscribe to the mailing list because of the
spam, especially the spam for porno. I know one person who would like to
subcribe but doesn’t because of the porno.

John

7

Re: So let’s talk about rules then

“Foss, JohnX” <johnx.foss@intel.com> wrote:

>Hey, action’s down to a low ebb here at the ng. Could it be the stock market?

>Let’s talk about competition rules. I’ve opened discussions on iuf-discuss and
>here for both IUF and USA rules and some good ideas have come in. I’m sure
>there are others of you out there who were at either of the conventions this
>summer (NUC and UNICON) who have opinions. What should we do different? Are
>there too many entries for the large number of events? Too many age groups?

We attended our first ever convention this summer when we were able to go to the
NUC in Monrovia, California. One of the things I appreciated was the
participatory nature of the convention; there were a wide range of skills and
anyone who wished to compete, could. We also volunteered some as race officials
and that was also a lot of fun. As long as it is logistically possible, I would
like to see the NUC remain open for all competitors. Perhaps the competitions
could somehow be separate into distinct parts: a “novice” or qualifying division
where anyone is encouraged to participate (with lots of those same people
helping to officiate/run those competitions). This division could be closed to
those are “experts” or who otherwise qualify for the “serious” competitions.
Also, the awards for doing well in this division could be pretty minimal
(perhaps simple ribbons or certificates - something to acknowledge the effort
and achievement and provide some recognition and encouragement for all those
aspiring unicyclists around the country - after all, that is where tomorrow’s
champions are going to come from).

How to weed people out?

That has a bad sound to it. Who wants to be a weed? :slight_smile:

The “expert” competitions could then be limited to a certain number of
participants and/or age groups. To get into the “expert” division, a rider would
need to be a returning “expert” or someone who qualifies by performing at a
certain predetermined level in the “novice” division. This would give a newcomer
who is really good a chance to advance to the “expert” competitions. There could
then be a high quality competion (which everyone would be able to see) that
wouldn’t necessarily take an inordinate amount of time; those who just want to
compete can compete in the “novice” division, and there would be a certain
status or reward just by making the "expert competition. Maybe the “novice”
competitions could be the first couple days of the NUC. The “experts” and the
one who just want to watch the “experts” wouldn’t need to come to this part if
they didn’t want to, and the “expert” competions could go a lot faster, so the
whole convention wouldn’t necessarily be a lot longer overall.

If the unicycling community gets big enough and well enough organized, there
could also be regional qualfying meets earlier in the year; where competitiors
could earn a qualifying time or score and thus be eligible to compete in the
“expert” division at the NUC. So maybe there could be 3 ways to be able to
compete in the “expert” divison at the nationals: qualifying at a regional meet,
performing well enough in the “novice” division of the nationals, and being a
returning “expert” (perhaps being in the top 3? in the prior year national
championship)

And what about
>walking on rickety tables??

What about rickety tables? I guess I need an explanation of that question . :slight_smile:

Scott Arnold --Scott, Jody, Vjera, Luke, Hope, Thad, and Simon Arnold

o o o o o o 7 unicyclists, Lane County, Oregon /[]\/[]\/[]\/[]\/[]\/[] o
(Simon can finally do it)

|\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ /[]\ E-mail: jodya@efn.org
O O O O O o o http://www.efn.org/~jodya/jodya.html

8

Re: So let’s talk about rules then

Hello John and all out there, at the end of the UNICON talked to John about age
groups. In my opinion we have to reduce the number of age groups, may be until
10 (=children),16 (or18 =juniors),35 (=adults) and over 35 (=seniors). In the
same way the organisation of the events would be a little easier (but the groups
bigger), the amount of medals reduced. Second it might be good to make track
days with competitions for children an juniors and other days for the adults and
seniors. The free day for the children could be filled with games, fun races and
training, for the adults it would be a cool day of to make sightseeing trips or
training… For families it would perhaps be the same as before. National
elimination is in my opinion in this moment not a good idea, first there are
many nations with only a few unicyclists and others (where the unicon is usually
held) with a lot more. Many people of these countries would have to stay outside
and be only spectators… In the countries with few participants there would be
no use for eliminatories, and everybody would be free to participate (fair??)
Beside the competitions shold be place for fun and training, certainly one
always open hall or good and central place outside (depending on the weather)
for training and exchange of experiences. Please dont flame me, just a few
thoughts (and I knew that it is not possible to organize all together in an
optimal way, so aknowlidges to everybody who organizes such events)… Yours,
Claus Willemer