Schlumpf 2014

Yes, I’ve ridden 36ers numerous times, on and off-road. They’re fine on flats, but I prefer a 29er for anything involving ups, downs, or turns.

One of the things not addressed in those who insist a downgeared 36 would be amazing is the feel of a geared unicycle in the first place.

Riding a geared up 24 is not like an ungeared 36 even though the virtual wheel sizes are about the same (argue the 1.54 if you want).

Seems to me some people have built geared unis and then sold them because they thought the geared uni would ride the same as an ungeared uni with close virtual wheelsizes. When they rode the uni, they found out that the handling wasn’t what they expected.

For those who insist that the ungeared is the way to go, do you realize that if you do get the hub you want, the uni is going to feel different than the ungeared uni with a lower ratio?

There will indeed be loss of efficiency due to the transmission. I wonder how the balance point is going to change as well. It is difficult to mount a geared (up for now) uni in high gear. It feels all weird when compared to a 1:1 crank:wheel ratio we’re used to.

Won’t the lower ratio be weird too? Don’t forget, you also lose wheel speed so some of that stability since you will be pushing the wheel at a lower speed that what you’re used to on a 36.

The point: geared unicycles are weird. It’s not going to go away just because you shift down instead of up. Not having 1:1 changes the game.

Is there a market for a downgeared uni? Sure. It’s small. Probably a whole lot smaller than that of a uni that shifts up. With it being a conjecture that it will be awesome, the market may indeed turn out to be smaller once it does hit the market. It’s hard to see how the physics of carrying a bunch of extra weight around and spending a lot of money to clean a couple of extra hills (maybe) will appeal to a very big audience.

If those who insist the downshifting hub will be the bees knees want it to happen, then pool the cash, and throw money at the situation. If you make it rain enough, you’ll get what you want.

I think gearing down would defeat the challenge of climbing steep hills, imo. To quote JFK, “We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard” :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Nurse Ben;1635674]
I do believe I am not alone…

The idea of gearing down is backassword only because we think of Schlumpf hubs as gearing up a smaller wheel, when in reality there are many folks who only use the high gear on their Schlumpf (29er folks who want to go fast on the road, but don’t want to ride a big wheel).

Actually, I’m with you, but I want reduction gearing for my 29er. I only ride Muni, do not need to go any faster than a 29er will allow and find myself a bit climbing impaired. It would be great to spin out a few long climbs rather than hiking them.

so
moving away from the
what id really like from a shifting hub (although we seem to have skipped the normal ‘id like it to be cheaper’ posts)

back to what we are likely to get in the 2014 update.

from this translated letter:

Good morning Martin,

a new hub is under construction and will be available within this year.
New are finesses like more space on the sides between hub and frame (allows mounting it in various frames), the possibility to tighten the cranks against a spacer (the present locking rings are not eligible for this), less weight as well an additional version for 125mm bearing space (Coker).
That’s no secret!

with kind regards
Florian

It looks like a 125mm bearing spacing hub seems a fair bet.
with this in mind are we likely to see some 125mm spacing KH frames??

I contacted Florian as well, and heard that 100mm hubs will be usable with an external disc, and 125mm hubs will be usable with an internal disc.

I probed about a lower ratio too, and was told that it is in the works and would be available as an option for future hubs. As to how far in the future… :thinking:

Very intersting thread. Quick question: I’d really like to try the geared 36er when the new hubs become available, but since I’m mechanically inept, I have no desire to futz around with wheel building or spacers or shimming or dropouts or hub widths or left-handed metric micrometers…blah blah blah… Are there any providers who can just deliver you a pre-built, fully Schlumpified unicycle?
–thx! :slight_smile:

Bronson Silva is the man on the west coast. http://silvacycles.com/index.html

OK, Thanks! I actually emailed him last week, and he told me to check back in a few months, so I guess that’s what I’ll do.

Thanks Unigoat. That’s good reality check regarding schlumpf hubs.

Actually, I’m with you, but I want reduction gearing for my 29er. I only ride Muni, do not need to go any faster than a 29er will allow and find myself a bit climbing impaired. It would be great to spin out a few long climbs rather than hiking them.
[/QUOTE]

You’ve nailed it right there. The doubters who can’t see the sense in your argument are probably lamenting the passing of the wooden wheel…l:D

Bicyclists don’t only gear up. When faced with a steep hill they sensibly gear down. So why can’t unicyclists :thinking: Why shouldn’t unicyclists have their unicycles geared to suit their purpose :thinking:

For my purpose the optimum set up is a 36" wheel. Occasionally though, I come to a steep hill and I would like to stay in the saddle and continue riding just like a bicyclist does.
The doubters remind me of those people who think that unicycles are only suitable for the circus, they just can’t see the potential in a new idea.

Though the issue as discussed above is that riding a geared down 36er/29er isn’t suddenly going to make climbing hills as easy as having the equivalent sized fixed wheel. I’m not sure it’s at all useful to compare with bicycles or other wheeled vehicles which gear down as they don’t have the same challenges we do which make things more awkward. You’re surely going to suffer from that reduced balance envelope on a geared down wheel as you do on a geared up one, and that doesn’t seem like a lot of fun when climbing a hill where you are beyond your limit on a fixed wheel - or am I the only one for who the limit is what I can balance rather than what I can heave myself up?

In any case, as much as you might wish for it, it really isn’t going to happen, the market is far too small and it’s far from a trivial change to the hub. I’d suggest if you really want that then somebody needs to make a jackshaft version - that or win the lottery and build your own planetary hub.

The reason I don’t see the potential is because I can already climb every hill round here faster than the 2-wheelers round here without having to gear down my uni. Unicycles are already fantastic hill-climbing machines, I just don’t see why it’s necessary to gear them down… How steep a hill are you planning to climb? :thinking:

That being said, I won’t complain if Florian DOES make a step-down hub. I just won’t get one… :smiley:

The wait may be due to not having any Schlumpf hubs on hand, and the delay in getting them. Not too many places stock them, but this place often has them, and their website says they currently have 3: http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/uni-shop/hubs/hub-kh-schlumpf.html So it might speed things up to buy the hub and have it shipped to the builder. Unless he’s got a several-month backlog of other stuff, and in that case it won’t matter. But it wouldn’t hurt to ask.
Cheers!

Hello Aracer, I take your point about the unicycle being more difficult than the bicycle…that cannot be disputed.

My comparison is about choice. Some unicyclists believe that they may benefit from a downshifting hub but there are those out there who are over critical of the idea.

I think Kris Holm has raced against bicyclists in cross country events using a schlumpf geared unicycle. So hill work with a schlumpf is doable.

A down shifting hub allows you to ride a with the 1:1 setting as your optimum speed setting. This set up appeals to me.:o

Hello P.M.

#1. Some hills that I can climb on my 24" but can’t climb on my 36"

#2. You can “choose” not to buy one which is fine. At least you’re being fair and reasonable about the choice being available to others:o

A geared-down 36 will not ride like a 24".

I don’t care if the choice is available to us; if Florian wants to make it, fine. I’m just trying to help you understand your misperception and avoid wasting a whole lot of money. I’ve seen a number of people (including Nurse Ben) go out and buy a Schlumpf for reasons that make no sense, and wind up not liking it. It’s a lot of money to shell out for something you don’t like. And I can pretty much guarantee that no one will wind up liking a 36" geared down with a Schlumpf.

Hello tholub, I take your point that a geared down 36er wont ride like a 24" . Similarly, the geared up 24" wont ride like 36er but people still ride them and are happy with them.

I know I’m taking a chance even when buying the existing schlumpf hub, thanks to the feedback from yourself and others on this thread. At least now I’m going in with my eyes wide open.

The schlumpf whether geared up or geared down is a beast that has to be tamed before enjoying it’s benefits as some people discover with regret.
However I’m keen to take on that challenge. Not to try it, would be a bigger regret for me.:frowning:

The resale market for schlumpf hubs is good. If I become disillusioned I can put it up for sale.

Maybe I’m naïve but I still like the idea of a down shifting schlumpf hub.

P.S. I bet Nurse Ben is glad that he tried the schlumpf seeing that he’s ready to buy another schlumpf hub albeit with a different setting.

As if Tholub knew me so well (insert eye roll).

Tholub has been riding for a while, his “paradigm” is different than mine, he got used to the idea of riding a smaller wheel so he could get up hills. And because he has been unicycling so long, the big wheels of today really didn’t exist when he started riding, so like many other old timers, he is stuck in the past.

Bigger wheels are the present, this is why mountain bikers have moved to larger wheels, this is why uncicylists have moved to larger wheels, they simply work better at covering terrain, they are more stable at speed, and they bridge obstacles better.

I tried a Schlumpf because I wanted a dual purpose unicycle, one that had a low gear for climbing and tech, and a high gear for riding fast. Sadly, Schlumpfs are not so easy to ride, not only is the 50% step HUGE, but the low is too low and the high is too high, so finding a good compromise between the two results in having to ride a small wheel for muni in two non ideal scenarios: Unstable in high gear and poor obstacle bridging in low gear.

My love of unicycling is what drives my desire to find “options” to the contemporary, hence my tendency to try anything new and different, which is why I have so many different wheel sizes, so many different tire widths, and the desire to have a downshifting hub and a lower ratio upshifting hub :slight_smile:

And to tell the truth, I am contemplating a Schlumpf wheel again, but first I get to get my house remodel done!

Is explaining the very real problems with the concept being “over critical”?

For KH! Though the point you also seem to be missing is that he was on 1:1 for the climbs.

Irrespective of anything else, the point remains that there isn’t going to be a downshifting Schlumpf.