sad

what’s even more sad about this kobe bryant case is the fact that people
find it somehow ok to post the victim’s name, address, phone number, email
and pictures online.


Rodney

Re: sad

What’s even worse is there’s like 5 people now, friends of the “victim”
who have said on TV that the “victim” was boasting the day after the
“encounter” at a party, about how much fun she’d had and even gestured
to indicate how “big” he was … she appeared quite more than OK about
the encounter.

THEN a few days later she files charges. Hmmmmmm…

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> what’s even more sad about this kobe bryant case is the fact that people
> find it somehow ok to post the victim’s name, address, phone number, email
> and pictures online.
>

Re: sad

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:3F202B1D.8010805@darklock.com
> What’s even worse is there’s like 5 people now, friends of the “victim”
> who have said on TV that the “victim” was boasting the day after the
> “encounter” at a party, about how much fun she’d had and even gestured
> to indicate how “big” he was … she appeared quite more than OK about
> the encounter.
>
> THEN a few days later she files charges. Hmmmmmm…

Who’s to say these people are telling the truth?

I don’t find much credibility in a “friend” that would say that about
another “friend” who said they were raped.

I also don’t think third hand stories are worth a feather in a court of law.


Rodney

Re: sad

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
> Who’s to say these people are telling the truth?

Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth? Not that I support Kobe
Bryant or even care a damn thing about sports players, but it’s been
known to happen before that a girl would lie about this in order to get
a big settlement and some fame out of it.

You don’t know how it went… a “friend” of hers could have clued her in
on the fact that “he’s married and has a lot of money…” Heck the man
just bought his wife a $4 million dollar diamond (obviously as a “honey
I’m sorry” gift). He’s got cash. That’s a SERIOUS motivator.

There’s nothing criminal with sleeping with an 18 year old. And adultery
is a civil offense only if the wife decides to sue for divorce over it
or something… the only leverage this girl has is to scream “rape”
which is suspect if IN FACT she did boast quite happily over the
encounter the next day at a party in front of witnesses more than
willing to discuss her actions.

> I also don’t think third hand stories are worth a feather in a court of law.

It’s not a third hand story if you have the witness there willing to
testify that she did act a certain way at this time about that thing.

This is about establishing her character. Is she likely to have lied
about this? As I said… money is a serious motivator.

Re: sad

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:3F202EB0.4090904@darklock.com
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> >
> > Who’s to say these people are telling the truth?
>
> Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth?

A court of law.

> but it’s been
> known to happen before that a girl would lie about this in order to get
> a big settlement and some fame out of it.

Yep, and it’s been known to happen that a girl gets raped.

> It’s not a third hand story if you have the witness there willing to
> testify that she did act a certain way at this time about that thing.

It is still hearsay. And I bet those people wouldn’t testify in a court of
law (unless they were paid).

People want their 15 minutes, even if it means lying about a friend.

> This is about establishing her character. Is she likely to have lied
> about this? As I said… money is a serious motivator.

And getting justice is a serious motivator as well.


Rodney

Re: sad

Are you claiming that you believe this girl without a shadow of a doubt…?

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
> Yep, and it’s been known to happen that a girl gets raped.

Re: sad

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:3F20336D.4090909@darklock.com
> Are you claiming that you believe this girl without a shadow of a
doubt…?
>
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> >
> > Yep, and it’s been known to happen that a girl gets raped.

I’m saying that I don’t know either way for sure. That’s for a court to
decide.

Without knowing all the evidence, I wouldn’t care to guess whether it is a
true claim or not.

Doesn’t make much sense guessing and basing possible theories on rumors.

Are you saying that you are more likely not to believe the girl because the
accused is a rich person?


Rodney

Re: sad

Rodney Blackwell wrote:
>
> I’m saying that I don’t know either way for sure. That’s for a court to
> decide.

Hey… that was my point. :wink: You seemed to be championing her cause…
already referring to her as the “victim” when at this point she’s
ACTUALLY the “alleged victim”.

> Are you saying that you are more likely not to believe the girl because the
> accused is a rich person?

No, I’m less likely to believe her when people she knows are willing to
testify about her bragging about sleeping with the guy the very next day.

After all she supposedly has a friend or two willing to testify that it
was rape; now there are 5 people who say it is not.

I have very strong opinions about the term “rape”. There are a bunch of
really dumb girls out there who consent to sex and then when they
realize they didn’t like it, or maybe it hadn’t been that good of an
idea after all, they go crying rape. It’s not rape if you regret it
after the fact. It’s not rape if you didn’t say “no”, participated, and
then later went “WTF was I THINKING?”

There’s a tendency in our society today to automatically side with the
female whenever she cries rape. We don’t QUESTION enough. I’m a big
proponent of questions… bad liars get a chance to break down when you
ask questions.

Now to address your “hearsay” accusation… read this article a bit:

Notice the part about determining character and how that aids a judgement.

Re: sad

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:3F20392F.3030104@darklock.com
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> >
> > I’m saying that I don’t know either way for sure. That’s for a court to
> > decide.
>
> Hey… that was my point. :wink: You seemed to be championing her cause…
> already referring to her as the “victim” when at this point she’s
> ACTUALLY the “alleged victim”.

Actually, you seemed to be already portraying her as a liar, posting hearsay
as her friends as evidence.

I just forgot to type alleged :slight_smile: That is hardly championing her cause.

> No, I’m less likely to believe her when people she knows are willing to
> testify about her bragging about sleeping with the guy the very next day.

See, you’re believing the “people she knows”. Why aren’t you less likely to
believe those people have alterior motives?

I also don’t think ANYBODY has testified yet.

> After all she supposedly has a friend or two willing to testify that it
> was rape; now there are 5 people who say it is not.

And I bet there will be 20 more people that “say” it was. Nobody knows for
sure except her and Kobe. But you are believing friends more than you are
believing that actual parties in the case.

> There’s a tendency in our society today to automatically side with the
> female whenever she cries rape. We don’t QUESTION enough. I’m a big
> proponent of questions… bad liars get a chance to break down when you
> ask questions.
>
> Now to address your “hearsay” accusation… read this article a bit:
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/24/findlaw.analysis.dorf.kobe.bryant/

However, there is still the credibilty of the person testifying. You don’t
know how credible those “friends” are or how credible a jury will find them.

I’m also sure that there will be witnesses stating that the “alleged” victim
would never do that and so it still is based on what facts are presented
before a jury and who they choose to believe.


Rodney

Re: sad

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:bfpd3u$fkt$1@www.darklock.com
> > Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth?
>
> A court of law.

I don’t mean to be cynical, but a court of law is not the best place to go
to find out the truth about anything. Law is a game with a defendant and a
prosecutor. All you find out in court is which side played the game better.
The goal of the game is not to find the truth but to get the best outcome
for your side.

-John Childs

Re: sad

“John Childs” <anon38529@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bfpikc$lop$1@www.darklock.com
>
> “Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
> news:bfpd3u$fkt$1@www.darklock.com…[color=darkred]
> > > Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth?
> >
> > A court of law.
>
> I don’t mean to be cynical, but a court of law is not the best place to go
> to find out the truth about anything. Law is a game with a defendant and[/color]
a
> prosecutor. All you find out in court is which side played the game
better.
> The goal of the game is not to find the truth but to get the best outcome
> for your side.

It’s funny when people start out by saying “I don’t mean to be cynical” and
then go on to do just that :slight_smile:


Rodney

Re: sad

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:bfpir1$lth$1@www.darklock.com
> “John Childs” <anon38529@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bfpikc$lop$1@www.darklock.com
> >
> > “Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
> > news:bfpd3u$fkt$1@www.darklock.com…[color=darkred]
> > > > Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth?
> > >
> > > A court of law.
> >
> > I don’t mean to be cynical, but a court of law is not the best place to[/color]
go
> > to find out the truth about anything. Law is a game with a defendant
and
> > a prosecutor. All you find out in court is which side played the game
> > better.
> > The goal of the game is not to find the truth but to get the best
outcome
> > for your side.
>
> It’s funny when people start out by saying “I don’t mean to be cynical”
and
> then go on to do just that :slight_smile:
>
> –
> Rodney

Ok, I did in fact mean to be cynical. :slight_smile:

-John Childs

Re: sad

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:bfpd3u$fkt$1@www.darklock.com
> “Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
> news:3F202EB0.4090904@darklock.com
> > Rodney Blackwell wrote:[color=darkred]
> > >
> > > Who’s to say these people are telling the truth?
> >
> > Who’s to say the girl is telling the truth?
>
> A court of law.
>
>
> > but it’s been
> > known to happen before that a girl would lie about this in order to get
> > a big settlement and some fame out of it.
>
> Yep, and it’s been known to happen that a girl gets raped.
>
> > It’s not a third hand story if you have the witness there willing to
> > testify that she did act a certain way at this time about that thing.
>
> It is still hearsay. And I bet those people wouldn’t testify in a court[/color]
of
> law (unless they were paid).

No it is not hearsay. In this case the women’s friends can testify to what
she her self told them, that is perfectly admissible in a court of law if it
is used to describe the state of mind or the character of the women. Hearsay
is not admissible when it relates to the actual elements of a crime but is
allowable when it deals with the character of a person or the state of mind
of a person involved in a trial.

Gary Stein

Re: sad

“Gary Stein” <gestein@cnw.com> wrote in message
news:bfpuso$35s$1@www.darklock.com
>
> No it is not hearsay. In this case the women’s friends can testify to what
> she her self told them, that is perfectly admissible in a court of law if
it
> is used to describe the state of mind or the character of the women.
Hearsay
> is not admissible when it relates to the actual elements of a crime but is
> allowable when it deals with the character of a person or the state of
mind
> of a person involved in a trial.

It may not meet the legal definition of hearsay, but it is still not fact,
and is open to the jury to decide on who they believe as credible (the
friends who say she bragged or the friends who say she was raped)


Rodney

Re: sad

>
> Now to address your “hearsay” accusation… read this article a bit:
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/24/findlaw.analysis.dorf.kobe.bryant/
>
> Notice the part about determining character and how that aids a judgement.
>

you can only use it for character and not to establish the facts of the
case. She would not be allowed to testify that she heard the girl boasting,
that doesn’t fit within the exception.

Brian

Re: sad

The way I understand it, the friends would not be able to testify about what
the girl said in court that related to the facts of the crime, whether or
not she was raped. Topics like if she was “slutty,” or was a chronic liar
may be allowed, but I’m kind of suspect of anythign further. I don’t see how
bragging that it isn’t rape gets around the exception. Maybe the bragging
part, but the actual statement…I guess we’ll see soon enough.

Brian
>
> No it is not hearsay. In this case the women’s friends can testify to what
> she her self told them, that is perfectly admissible in a court of law if
it
> is used to describe the state of mind or the character of the women.
Hearsay
> is not admissible when it relates to the actual elements of a crime but is
> allowable when it deals with the character of a person or the state of
mind
> of a person involved in a trial.
>
> Gary Stein
>
>

Re: sad

Well, if i had a friend who did something I completely felt was wrong, that
would probably outlast my loyalty if it was going to seriously affect
someone else’s life.


Jay Tierney

> I don’t find much credibility in a “friend” that would say that about
> another “friend” who said they were raped.
>
> I also don’t think third hand stories are worth a feather in a court of
law.
>
> –
> Rodney
>
>

Re: sad

I have A LOT of doubt, that’s for sure. The whole thing just seems a little
off to me.


Jay Tierney

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:3F20336D.4090909@darklock.com
> Are you claiming that you believe this girl without a shadow of a
doubt…?
>
> Rodney Blackwell wrote:
> >
> > Yep, and it’s been known to happen that a girl gets raped.
>

Re: sad

None-the-less, what he said about a court of law is correct…


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message news:bfpir1
>
> It’s funny when people start out by saying “I don’t mean to be cynical”
and
> then go on to do just that :slight_smile:

Re: sad

How do you know what they’re saying isn’t a fact?


Jay Tierney

> It may not meet the legal definition of hearsay, but it is still not fact,
> and is open to the jury to decide on who they believe as credible (the
> friends who say she bragged or the friends who say she was raped)
>
> –
> Rodney
>
>