As Mr. Marshall is pointing out, you’re overlooking many indirect costs associated with production, especially small batch production as the OP is suggesting.
Before a small batch producer can even begin to think about profit, they have to cover the time and materials spent in research and development, and they have to cover it in many fewer sales. Whether your produce 10 frames or 1,000, you’re going to have to do a lot of the same R&D.
Also consider that he has tooling and setup costs to recover as well. It doesn’t matter how few or how many welds are made, a welding jig needs to be made if more than a few pieces are produced. Same goes for any machine processes; he’ll need to make a jig for the bearing holders. These things take time to figure out, time to implement, and time to use.
While it may only take a few minutes to do the welds or cut the holders, it still takes time to set up the tools, time to break them down, and time to clean up shop afterwards.
A lot of these times are constant, regardless of the number of units being produced. This means that the cost per unit can only be reduced by producing more frames… and in this case that doesn’t seem to be an option. They’re just going to have to charge more per frame.
i would say insufficient for it to be commercially viable. Why? Because none of the big manafactureres are doing one, despite their low-cost manafacturing facilities, wide distribution and bulk discounts.
Cough Cough aparently someone doesnt understand the amount of labor and machining that goes into something like this. Plus how much time needs to be spent on welding aluminum. 250 is probably a reasonable price in my opinion, thats expect that it will be strong (but your friend makes bike trial frames, so its gonna be strong).
In a way that’s irrelevant. The amount someone will pay for something is what it’s worth to them as a product, regardless of how much it cost to build. As an example, I would only pay a couple of hundred quid for a Ti nimbus. I don’t care if it cost £1k to build, it’s just not worth that to me. Now if you’re arguing about what is a fair price that’s a different matter, but perceived value is entirely in the eye of the beholder.
actually, sorry. I just thought of that. I mean, to me, the frame would easily be worth 250, feeling that i’d cover the persons labor fairly, and have a nice frame. But i guess, to a person whos happy with their setup, and doesnt really think much of machining or something, would obviously think of a lesser price.
What about someone who knows all about the process of building a frame. Prices of metal, equipment needed, experience needed to have quality welds and so on?
Youll be lucky for me to pay $80 for one. Extremely lucky.
Its all about who hes marketing towards also. For people who need/want round crowns (for example trials riders like myself), they would probably know what to pay for something they need/want.
no, i’m just saying that you lack an initial want/need for the frame. I didnt say that ONLY trials riders want round crowns, or that all trials riders want round crowns, just sorta meant that a lot do. You probably just dont see much of a point in it i guess.
idk, i’d like one though, ive been riding crappy frames (either flat crown, or rubbing on the tire) so i’d really like a change lol…
yah, but you would have to buy the whole cycle, and it has 40mm bearing holders and 130mm spacing, and the break mounts are for V breaks, and it wouldn’t fit the 36X3" Monster Muni tire I have in my head…
I would expect a skilled american craftsman to make small batches of high quality frames for minimum wage disregarding any R&D, setup costs, equipment costs and other additional overhead.
After all, teeny boppers are used to cheap, mass-produced chinese made consumer goods, and won’t tolorate someone actually trying to make a living.
Obviously Kris is making a bundle ripping everyone off, haven’t you seen his latest leer jet?
…as a side remark, I was in a store today, and I saw some “God Bless America” coffee mugs. I flipped one over and wasn’t even a little surprised to see “made in China”.
One last thing, I personally would prefer a frame made to fit 25.4 posts, with no shim’s needed, like a nimbus frame. If it wouldn’t make it weaker or anything like that, of course.
There are some really cheap aluminium alloy frames for 20" Unicycles. The complete 20" sells for NZ$189. Unicycleshop.co.nz and a lot of NZ bike shops sell them. They have a 22.2mm seatpost (only knurled near the bottom so it twists more if you put the seat down), and a torturous seat with razor sharp plastic scraping blades for a handle to abrase the legs of any unsuspecting learners who wish for unicycling to be fun. It has metal pedals negating some of the weight saved by the alloy cranks which are a whopping 140mm. Nice light cycle- pity about the seat. If only they could change the specs slightly to fit the 25.4 posts, and maybe a bit wider for the 2.5" wide tires- they would be much better! And they are already being mass produced so the price is very low- I’m not sure how strong they are but weight and price seem to be the main issues.
I think unicycle.com and unicycleshop.co.nz’s supplier should join forces!
I’d worry a bit about strength of those frames - it isn’t like they get their strength tested ever, as on the original cycles, the hub axle detaches from the flanges the moment you hop on them.
I’m not trying to sell you that unicycle. If you have loads of money then buy the most expensive “tested” frame there is. I’ve never heard of axles detaching from flanges- and we use those unicycles at one of the schools (with the seatposts and seats replaced with Unicycle.com ones). I’ve hopped for several moments too, with no dramatic consequences.
The reason I posted it is to show that round-crown aluminium alloy frames are in mass production for unicycles already- they just need a better design. A lot of people talk about prohibitive setup costs- these people (making these alloy frames) aren’t worried by that- they just don’t know what they are doing in my opinion. I’m not going to tell them either- I tried to give feedback through the bike shops and it fell on deaf ears.