revs per minute

Re: revs per minute

On Mon, 6 May 2002 09:37:21 -0500, gauss
<gauss.48kda@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>I don’t know where you are interms of
>learning pedal technique so I apologize if you have heard all of this:
>When pedaling it is important to not just step down on the pedals. At
>the bottom of the stroke you should pull back as hard as friction
>allows. At the top of the stroke you should be pushing foward. In time
>a very smooth pedal stroke develops as your feet begin to spin circles
>instead of just stepping down.

Thank you for this advice. Today I made a conscious effort to pedal
“round” as you describe and it improved my trail riding noticeably.
(However I made one or two mistakes on the “as hard as friction
allows” bit.)
Is there a (web) resource with more pedal technique tips? I now
realise this is uncharted territory for me.

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“SecDef, JOTS, Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah”

Re: revs per minute

dan.4ahky@unicyclist.com writes:
>
>David
>
>I assume I got your attention because you ride your unicycle at fast
>speeds. You challenging my logic lets me know that someone is paying
>attention. I have been waiting patiently for someone such as you to
>respond to my post, good or bad. Probably not a lot of unicylists are
>interested in speed like you and I
My experience backs that up. There are fewer speed demons than I thought.
I was particularly surprised at last year’s Unithon, where for the first
time, I met Coker riders unrelated to me. I’d assumed that most ppl got
Cokers for the combination of speed and long distance. I guess I also
assumed that most good riders had built up the strength, endurance, and
experience to take a 24" or slightly larger uni up to about 10mph and had
bought their Cokers so they could average an even faster ride. Well, last
year most riders had trouble even hitting 12mph, let alone averaging it.
This year, I am interested in seeing how fast I can complete the ride
before going back to hang out with and assist other riders.
>
[snipp]
>So for now I will stay on the topic of
>Unicycling
>
>I too ride a Coker with 5-inch cranks. I made the decision to do so
>after reading one of your post’s sometime ago. Now I ride almost 2 MPH
>faster at the same intensity before the reduction in crank length. On
>Sunday I rode 60 miles at 13 MPH average speed. Almost 2 MPH faster
>than the same course ridden with longer cranks. By the end of this
>month I am confident that I will complete a local century at around the
>8-hour mark (including rests). Based on your riding experience I am
>sure you could do the same or faster.
You flatterer! That’s a damn good speed for 100mi. I have ‘only’ ever
ridden 80mi, and that was frustrating bc I had no companions other than
some bikers I kept up with for the last 2/3 of the ride. I actually needed
the long breaks I took (it was beastly hot), but the riding part saw me
‘average’ 11mph (that is, I rode 11mph when I was riding), which suggests
I could complete 100mi in 9hrs plus breaks. Part of the difference is the
incredible hilliness of parts of NYC. On flatter roads, I can maintain
13-14mph for an hour easily (and then I’m home, so I stop). If not for the
street riding which breaks up the park rides, I could probably maintain
14-15mph, but not much faster.

[snip}
> The key is by experimenting, a balance
>between cadence and leverage is discovered for optimum speed.
>
>In short Lance Armstrong and all other riders for that matter select the
>largest gear they can maintain at 90 to 95 RPM in conjunction with his
>optimum crank length (which is probably 180MM). They never choose a
>smaller gear thereby forcing the use of smaller cranks in order to
>maintain a cadence that would net the same speed. Large gear large
>crank combinations at slower cadences are far more efficient than short
>wheel short crank fast cadence combinations.
>
>You can argue that road cycling and road unicyling are different
>therefore the logic does not apply. However after doing lots of both
>for many years I conclude that they are very close to the same. With
>cycling you have handlebars, with unicycles for the most part you don’t.
>That is the biggest difference.
Well, there is that part about cyclists gliding downhill!
>
>
>David-If speed is your desire you are going about it the wrong way.
>Spinning a 36-inch wheel at 130 RPM+ is not efficient. Like me you need
>to be turning a larger wheel with larger cranks at a slower cadence.
I still don’t get how this is going to happen without gears. There simply
is no larger wheel. Yes, gears will make a huge difference, but they can
only help so much. Now, I’d never want to gear up a Coker. If what you are
saying is true, then we’d be better off with a suped up Coker ( where we
could pedal long crank arms at a slower cadence (say, 90rpm). Currently, I
hit 15mph at a cadence of c. 143. To go 15mph at a 90rpm, then, I’d have
to ride a Coker.5 (large cranks and all), and that seems insane (just
because it’s too scary to contemplate.

>As
>I said before if this is a combination you are interested in call Greg
>Harper. If you are satisfied with what you have I’ll be checking you
>out in my rear view mirror. I am on Greg’s list.
I’m next, and am I psyched!

>Cheers
>dan
See you at UNICON?

David
>
Co-founder, Unatics of NY
1st Sunday / 3rd Saturday
@ Central Park Bandshell
1:30 start time after 11/1/01

Re: revs per minute

“David Stone” <dstone@packer.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1020824113.25874.rsu@unicycling.org
> My experience backs that up. There are fewer speed demons than I thought.
> I was particularly surprised at last year’s Unithon, where for the first
> time, I met Coker riders unrelated to me. I’d assumed that most ppl got
> Cokers for the combination of speed and long distance. I guess I also

I got a coker because it lets me get places easily without putting in all
the effort you need on the 24". I can ride it for ages without stopping, but
I only average 10mph or so including stops. Judging from the speeds I can go
on the 29" with short cranks I’d probably be significantly faster with
shorter cranks, but I need the original length cranks for much of the riding
I do.

> assumed that most good riders had built up the strength, endurance, and
> experience to take a 24" or slightly larger uni up to about 10mph and had
> bought their Cokers so they could average an even faster ride. Well, last
> year most riders had trouble even hitting 12mph, let alone averaging it.
> This year, I am interested in seeing how fast I can complete the ride
> before going back to hang out with and assist other riders.

I think if I’m going 10mph on a 24" I’m putting in huge amounts of effort,
compared with cokering at 10 mph, which isn’t too hard, which is why I’d
ride a coker.

I would like a faster yike, especially if it let me stop and change the gear
between 1:1 and 1:1.5 / 1:1.6, because it’d make riding with bicyclists
easier.

Also, unless it’s your only or most used form of transport, most people
won’t be riding cokers all that far or fast, I think its only commuting
people or the sort of people who really train hard just for the sake of it
who will be coming anywhere near the sort of averages you’re getting. Other
people have cokers just because they’re so fun to ride and good for doing
longer rides with low effort.

Joe

Re: revs per minute

“Dan” <dan.4b1py@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.4b1py@timelimit.unicyclist.com
>
> I have received several E-mails asking who the hell Greg Harper is, and
> what is it he has to offer. I apologize to those who haven’t heard
> about his hub yet. Greg has designed an internally geared hub with a
> ratio of 1 to 1.5. It is being shipped all over the country for trials
> in the form of " UNI5". UNI5 is a 24-inch wheel geared up by Greg’s hub
> to effectively net the same inches of travel per revaluation as the
> Coker. I, and many others have shared out observations about the
> characteristics of UNI5 compared to the Coker. Simply perform a search
> on the site for “UNI5”. You will find plenty of good information.
>
> In short, for the first time in the history of the sport we will now be
> able to utilize high-end bicycle components to achieve speed by
> increasing inches of travel per revolution (with the Harper Hub) without
> sacrificing efficiency and comfort. For example combining a 700C with
> Harpers hub you are effectively turning a 42-inch wheel all while
> realizing the benefits of a high-end bicycle wheel. It will be light,
> fast, and true. Much faster speeds will be realized with this
> combination (possibly bigger 1: to 1.6) than with a Coker.

Well, a Coker with a Harper Hub would be faster still, right?
>
> This will prove to be a major milestone in the history of speed and
> distance unicycling.
>
> Also I left out the reason I and many others are utilizing short cranks
> with our Coker to increase speed rather than choosing a larger wheel and
> bigger cranks. Prior to the advent of Greg’s hub, larger wheels were
> heavy cumbersome and did not accommodate a pneumatic tire. Greg simply
> took the focus off the wheel/ tire and found a way to utilize already
> existing technology by use of his hub. Before this hub, all we could do
> was find ways to spin a Coker as fast as we could.

RE: revs per minute

>From: John Foss <john_foss@asinet.com>
>I think good advice for someone like Carol McLean is to work
>on an efficient spin, and gradually up the rpm to see how fast you can go
>with a smooth, consistent pedal stroke. Again, if you do this you should be
>able to smoke most of your competition, at NAUCC anyway (UNICON is always a
>tougher field).
>

It’s true that my competition has little to fear. As I recall, my racing at
NAUCC has not been spectacular. I think I won something last year. With
about 5 riders in my age group, I probably got 5th and was darn proud of it.
I remember that my goal was to actually cross a finish line in an upright
position while still breathing.

(In the “advanced-age women’s” category, racing is probably not as serious
as in other groups. We chat with each other, swap recipes, wave at the
crowd, say “excuse me” if we manage to pass someone, and I think some riders
may have stopped for tea during the 1500 m last year.)

I know, I know. I should take it more seriously, but I just want to do my
best and have fun. If I can actually participate, great. If I’m too slow
to race at a national or world competition, I can certainly understand that.
I did a lot better last year than the two previous years, that’s for sure.

A big part of the draw of this sport for me is that someone as crummy as I
am can actually participate at all! I find that amazing and very appealing.

Thanks to everyone for the input on this. Very helpful. I need to look into
shorter cranks. And, I actually worked on my speed and technique last time
out, just to see if I could improve.

I hope my knees hold out. They may not be as charming as Mr. Harper’s, but
they’re all I’ve got.

Carol
Minnesota
Mothers’ Day Ride Coming Up on Sunday, May 12. Be there!


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Re: revs per minute

dan.4b1py@timelimit.unicyclist.com writes:
>I have received several E-mails asking who the hell Greg Harper is, and
>what is it he has to offer. I apologize to those who haven’t heard
>about his hub yet. Greg has designed an internally geared hub with a
>ratio of 1 to 1.5. It is being shipped all over the country for trials
>in the form of " UNI5". UNI5 is a 24-inch wheel geared up by Greg’s hub
>to effectively net the same inches of travel per revaluation as the
>Coker. I, and many others have shared out observations about the
>characteristics of UNI5 compared to the Coker. Simply perform a search
>on the site for “UNI5”. You will find plenty of good information.
I believe most of us have taken to calling it uni.5 (uni-point-five), tho
there have been references to the same uni sans the point (which I don’t
see the point of). In either case, we still need a better name. I prefer
“The Harpooni 150.”
>
>In short, for the first time in the history of the sport
(actually, I thought there was another similar hub produced recently)
>we will now be
>able to utilize high-end bicycle componentry to achieve speed by
>increasing inches of travel per revolution (with the Harper Hub) without
>sacrificing efficiency and comfort. For example combining a 700C with
>Harpers hub you are effectively turning a 42-inch wheel all while
>realizing the benefits of a high-end bicycle wheel. It will be light,
>fast, and true. Much faster speeds will be realized with this
>combination (possibly bigger 1: to 1.6) than with a Coker.
I still have trouble with ‘700C.’ Does that mean a wheel 70cm tall (then
why not use the number 70?)? That translates to roughly 28" to 29". If so,
it would still be feasible to use Harper’s Hub (like Lorenzo’s Oil, only
probably not out to cure disease). Once the wheel OR the hub ratio gets
too big, you have a potential disaster every time you hit a hill. On the
way up, you’re basically trying to get a 42" uni up a hill. On the way
down, you’re trying to harness the speed of this gravel muncher that wants
to gallop when you may not want to. On straightaways, you’re ok (unless
you want to stop or turn). I can see this NOT working out too well. Dan
may respond that this is where the longer cranks come in, but then you
have riders using their knees much more than they already do, and most of
us have found that reducing crank length helped our knees. Finally, going
from a Coker with a 36" wheel to suped up 28" wheel that rides like a 42"
only increases the revolution by 17%, which is not going to solve anyone’s
speed problems – that would only mean that a rider accustomed to 14mph
could go 16.3mph, and while that’s faster, it’s not WAY faster, and in the
meantime, you have those hills to contend with.
>
>This will prove to be a major milestone in the history of speed and
>distance unicycling.
Then there is that other issue: Speed can only go up so far before Danger
takes over. I expect we’ll start hearing of deaths (other than my own) for
the first time if we get many riders hitting high speeds.

The new hub is certainly going to change things, but for me, the big
change seems that we won’t rely on Coker for long-distance riding. I don’t
think that most Coker riders would want the hub in a much larger wheel for
some of the reasons I mentioned.

David “Getting a chance at uni.5 tomorrow!” Stone
Co-founder, Unatics of NY
1st Sunday / 3rd Saturday
@ Central Park Bandshell
1:30 start time after 11/1/01

Re: revs per minute

Great posts Dan and Dave, very interesting reading!

I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road unicycle, but in
reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a huge unicycling fanatic, we have
to realize that a unicycle just is not as practical for speed or distance
as a bicycle. Until Greg Harper makes a 2 or 3 speed hub, unicycles will
have limitations that cannot be bypassed. As David pointed out, it’s
great that we can have unicycles with gearing to 42", but once you get
farther than that, hills will be torture to climb and descend. Most of us
didn’t get into unicycling because they are speed machines, we did it
because it is fun. I’m happy to ride at my relatively slow pace because I
see things that I would miss while speeding by on a bicycle. When
puttering along, I get chances to meet people that I would ignore while
bicycling.

Another topic I have been intending to bring up for some time is the
eligibility of geared unicycles in competition. I understand that in
races like the 10k unlimited anything human-powered on 1 wheel goes, but
what about long distance records (such as 100 mile). Personally I feel
that only standard unicycles should be allowed. It just seems that if
geared uni’s are allowed, the records won’t so much be based on
athleticism but whoever has the funding to have someone machine a geared
hub. Maybe I’ll feel differently once geared hubs are commercially
available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1 unicycles
should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.

Jeff T.


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Re: RE: revs per minute

You’re in it for exactly the right reason. Doing your best and having fun suggests that you’re taking it quite seriously. You are winning.

Re: revs per minute

(Jeff T) moosebreath1@juno.com writes:
>Great posts Dan and Dave, very interesting reading!
We aim to please.
>
>I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road unicycle, but in
>reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a huge unicycling fanatic, we have
>to realize that a unicycle just is not as practical for speed or distance
>as a bicycle. Until Greg Harper makes a 2 or 3 speed hub, unicycles will
>have limitations that cannot be bypassed. As David pointed out, it’s
>great that we can have unicycles with gearing to 42", but once you get
>farther than that, hills will be torture to climb and descend. Most of us
>didn’t get into unicycling because they are speed machines, we did it
>because it is fun. I’m happy to ride at my relatively slow pace because I
>see things that I would miss while speeding by on a bicycle. When
>puttering along, I get chances to meet people that I would ignore while
>bicycling.
That was what I loved about smaller wheels when I started. Now I like the
Coker’s speed (it’s not much slower than I could go by bike for long
rides) and the workout I get, plus it’s a unicycle, which is in itself a
special and wonderful thing.
>
>Another topic I have been intending to bring up for some time is the
>eligibility of geared unicycles in competition. I understand that in
>races like the 10k unlimited anything human-powered on 1 wheel goes, but
>what about long distance records (such as 100 mile). Personally I feel
>that only standard unicycles should be allowed. It just seems that if
>geared uni’s are allowed, the records won’t so much be based on
>athleticism but whoever has the funding to have someone machine a geared
>hub. Maybe I’ll feel differently once geared hubs are commercially
>available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1 unicycles
>should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.
Well, we just need a separate category. Motorcycles race each other, bikes
race each other, and never the twain shall meet. Same should be true for
geared vs regular unis.

David

Co-founder, Unatics of NY
1st Sunday / 3rd Saturday
@ Central Park Bandshell
1:30 start time after 11/1/01

RE: revs per minute

> I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road
> unicycle, but in reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a
> huge unicycling fanatic, we have to realize that a unicycle
> just is not as practical for speed or distance as a bicycle.

I have to agree with Jeff. As long as we’re stuck in a single gear,
unicyclists will be at a disadvantage compared to bicyclists in most
situations. If a unicycle can be designed with gears you can change when
stopped it will be a further step, but until the gears can be changed
on-the-fly it will still be a second-best comparison.

But to me, a unicycle is not supposed to be a road bike (or mountain bike,
or cruiser). We want it to stand out, and enjoy the extra effort required to
balance one, and the extra work required to go distances.

I have always believed that, at lower speeds, a unicycle is safer than a
bike. This is mostly due to the lower speed a unicycle can go, compared to a
bike where hills can get you going real fast, and where you can also
daydream a lot more easily, without constant attention to your balance. But
as you get faster, the unicycle gets more dangerous. The big fat red line of
this is your own personal running speed. If you exceed this, your danger
level jumps up a lot, where on a bike, it hasn’t really changed. The bike is
always going to be far more stable. Though you can bail from a unicycle more
easily, it doesn’t help you much when you’re going faster than you can run.
Especially if it’s from a really high seat.

So to ride above running speed, a unicyclist has to accept a higher level of
risk. This is okay, it’s still less risk (outside of traffic) than what a
motorcyclist faces. Though the unicyclist is likely to crash more often, the
resulting injuries are probably going to be far less life-threatening. So,
like any activity, you choose the level of danger you want to be exposed to.

But gearing up the a unicycle also makes it harder to ride. The Harper
Uni.5, with it’s 1:1.5 ratio, is fairly user-friendly. I think it works so
well and so easily because of the relatively low (sensible) ratio. As you
up the ratio, the difference between the geared uni and the equivalent
direct-drive wheel becomes more obvious. Or maybe it doesn’t. I never rode a
wheel bigger than 63", and that one was really light (and weak). Wheels that
are bigger than what’s allowed by the rider’s leg length are probably not
practical for anything other than visual effect (as opposed to getting to
work). They might not even fit through a door! As the wheel gets bigger, it
not only gets heavier (and weaker), but also gets higher. So now you face
the possibility of not only a faster crash, but one that “lands” you on the
ground at a more disturbing angle.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think the idea of riding long distances,
whether across the country or to work, is supposed to be hard. In addition
to the “hardness” of riding a unicycle, there is also the hard work of
propelling this non-geared vehicle any long distance. If it’s level ground
all the way, it’s easier than hills. But if there’s traffic (which there
usually is), you still need the ability to react quickly with both turns and
stops.

The Coker is a great compromise in that it’s still small enough for most
people to fit on, goes easily into the car, and isn’t real heavy. Plus it’s
the cheapest large-wheel unicycle out there. I think air-tire unicycles up
to about 50-55" can still be effective, depending on rider leg length. But
as the wheel gets bigger it’s going to get heavier, harder to fit in the
car, and surely more expensive.

With a geared hub, I think it will stay relatively fun to ride as long as
the ratio isn’t too high. I rode a giraffe with a 1:3 ratio once. It took me
a lot of tries to get it going, and I was still scared to take this 20"
beast beyond about 10mph, because of the much higher likelihood that I would
fall without being able to correct. I also experimented with different gear
ratios on my Schwinn Giraffe many years ago, I settled on a 26:48 ratio, but
it was still real hard to freemount, hard to ride slow, and far more likely
to crash hard than a non-geared one. So I think you need to keep the ratio
fairly low to have a safe and enjoyable ride.

> eligibility of geared unicycles in competition.

The majority of races we do in the IUF and USA are limited by equipment to
put everyone on a level playing field, with equipment that’s commonly
available. You would have to have lots of availability of geared hubs, in
lots of countries, to create a critical mass enough for us to be likely to
create a separate category for it there.

In the unlimited races, (nearly) everything goes. For NAUCC and UNICON 2002,
the unlimited events will be:
>- Downhill
>- Cross Country
>- Uphill
>- Trials
>- Orienteering
>- High Jump
>- Long Jump
>- 10k Marathon Unlimited Class

> what about long distance records (such as 100 mile).

The question here is of who is the governing body for such records? If
you’re going for a Guinness record, you have to satisfy Guinness. In the
past, this has been very hit-and-miss because they might arbitrarily change
their requirements, and even worse, arbitrarily add and remove records and
categories from their books.

Last fall I received an email from a gentleman at the Guinness organization
saying they would like to follow the lead of the IUF for future records.
This was an interesting statement, coming as it did after they released the
2002 book in the US with only two unicycling records in it. So the IUF can
be in charge of these sorts of records if we want. We still have to work
this out.

When tracking records, it’s possible to keep track of all sorts of
variations. For instance I would definitely consider a “geared” 100 mile
record to be something different from a fixed-wheel one. Whether Guinness
would be interested in listing both would be a separate issue, but we could
at least recommend which one we thought was “best”. To me I guess this would
be the fastest one, if they had to pick only one.

> available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1
> unicycles should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.

I feel like the 100 mile record won’t last another five years. With the
advent of cheap big wheels, some other athlete is going to at least attack
that record. It certainly won’t be easy to break (6:44), but now there is
more of a field to chase it.

If somebody breaks the record on a geared unicycle, I would definitely list
it separately. But both would surely be fully legitimate records. You’re
still taking one wheel 100 miles under your own power, you just pedal less
revolutions. You don’t do less mechanical work.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

RE: revs per minute

> I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road
> unicycle, but in reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a
> huge unicycling fanatic, we have to realize that a unicycle
> just is not as practical for speed or distance as a bicycle.

I have to agree with Jeff. As long as we’re stuck in a single gear,
unicyclists will be at a disadvantage compared to bicyclists in most
situations. If a unicycle can be designed with gears you can change when
stopped it will be a further step, but until the gears can be changed
on-the-fly it will still be a second-best comparison.

But to me, a unicycle is not supposed to be a road bike (or mountain bike,
or cruiser). We want it to stand out, and enjoy the extra effort required to
balance one, and the extra work required to go distances.

I have always believed that, at lower speeds, a unicycle is safer than a
bike. This is mostly due to the lower speed a unicycle can go, compared to a
bike where hills can get you going real fast, and where you can also
daydream a lot more easily, without constant attention to your balance. But
as you get faster, the unicycle gets more dangerous. The big fat red line of
this is your own personal running speed. If you exceed this, your danger
level jumps up a lot, where on a bike, it hasn’t really changed. The bike is
always going to be far more stable. Though you can bail from a unicycle more
easily, it doesn’t help you much when you’re going faster than you can run.
Especially if it’s from a really high seat.

So to ride above running speed, a unicyclist has to accept a higher level of
risk. This is okay, it’s still less risk (outside of traffic) than what a
motorcyclist faces. Though the unicyclist is likely to crash more often, the
resulting injuries are probably going to be far less life-threatening. So,
like any activity, you choose the level of danger you want to be exposed to.

But gearing up the a unicycle also makes it harder to ride. The Harper
Uni.5, with it’s 1:1.5 ratio, is fairly user-friendly. I think it works so
well and so easily because of the relatively low (sensible) ratio. As you
up the ratio, the difference between the geared uni and the equivalent
direct-drive wheel becomes more obvious. Or maybe it doesn’t. I never rode a
wheel bigger than 63", and that one was really light (and weak). Wheels that
are bigger than what’s allowed by the rider’s leg length are probably not
practical for anything other than visual effect (as opposed to getting to
work). They might not even fit through a door! As the wheel gets bigger, it
not only gets heavier (and weaker), but also gets higher. So now you face
the possibility of not only a faster crash, but one that “lands” you on the
ground at a more disturbing angle.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think the idea of riding long distances,
whether across the country or to work, is supposed to be hard. In addition
to the “hardness” of riding a unicycle, there is also the hard work of
propelling this non-geared vehicle any long distance. If it’s level ground
all the way, it’s easier than hills. But if there’s traffic (which there
usually is), you still need the ability to react quickly with both turns and
stops.

The Coker is a great compromise in that it’s still small enough for most
people to fit on, goes easily into the car, and isn’t real heavy. Plus it’s
the cheapest large-wheel unicycle out there. I think air-tire unicycles up
to about 50-55" can still be effective, depending on rider leg length. But
as the wheel gets bigger it’s going to get heavier, harder to fit in the
car, and surely more expensive.

With a geared hub, I think it will stay relatively fun to ride as long as
the ratio isn’t too high. I rode a giraffe with a 1:3 ratio once. It took me
a lot of tries to get it going, and I was still scared to take this 20"
beast beyond about 10mph, because of the much higher likelihood that I would
fall without being able to correct. I also experimented with different gear
ratios on my Schwinn Giraffe many years ago, I settled on a 26:48 ratio, but
it was still real hard to freemount, hard to ride slow, and far more likely
to crash hard than a non-geared one. So I think you need to keep the ratio
fairly low to have a safe and enjoyable ride.

> eligibility of geared unicycles in competition.

The majority of races we do in the IUF and USA are limited by equipment to
put everyone on a level playing field, with equipment that’s commonly
available. You would have to have lots of availability of geared hubs, in
lots of countries, to create a critical mass enough for us to be likely to
create a separate category for it there.

In the unlimited races, (nearly) everything goes. For NAUCC and UNICON 2002,
the unlimited events will be:
>- Downhill
>- Cross Country
>- Uphill
>- Trials
>- Orienteering
>- High Jump
>- Long Jump
>- 10k Marathon Unlimited Class

> what about long distance records (such as 100 mile).

The question here is of who is the governing body for such records? If
you’re going for a Guinness record, you have to satisfy Guinness. In the
past, this has been very hit-and-miss because they might arbitrarily change
their requirements, and even worse, arbitrarily add and remove records and
categories from their books.

Last fall I received an email from a gentleman at the Guinness organization
saying they would like to follow the lead of the IUF for future records.
This was an interesting statement, coming as it did after they released the
2002 book in the US with only two unicycling records in it. So the IUF can
be in charge of these sorts of records if we want. We still have to work
this out.

When tracking records, it’s possible to keep track of all sorts of
variations. For instance I would definitely consider a “geared” 100 mile
record to be something different from a fixed-wheel one. Whether Guinness
would be interested in listing both would be a separate issue, but we could
at least recommend which one we thought was “best”. To me I guess this would
be the fastest one, if they had to pick only one.

> available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1
> unicycles should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.

I feel like the 100 mile record won’t last another five years. With the
advent of cheap big wheels, some other athlete is going to at least attack
that record. It certainly won’t be easy to break (6:44), but now there is
more of a field to chase it.

If somebody breaks the record on a geared unicycle, I would definitely list
it separately. But both would surely be fully legitimate records. You’re
still taking one wheel 100 miles under your own power, you just pedal less
revolutions. You don’t do less mechanical work.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

RE: revs per minute

> I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road
> unicycle, but in reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a
> huge unicycling fanatic, we have to realize that a unicycle
> just is not as practical for speed or distance as a bicycle.

I have to agree with Jeff. As long as we’re stuck in a single gear,
unicyclists will be at a disadvantage compared to bicyclists in most
situations. If a unicycle can be designed with gears you can change when
stopped it will be a further step, but until the gears can be changed
on-the-fly it will still be a second-best comparison.

But to me, a unicycle is not supposed to be a road bike (or mountain bike,
or cruiser). We want it to stand out, and enjoy the extra effort required to
balance one, and the extra work required to go distances.

I have always believed that, at lower speeds, a unicycle is safer than a
bike. This is mostly due to the lower speed a unicycle can go, compared to a
bike where hills can get you going real fast, and where you can also
daydream a lot more easily, without constant attention to your balance. But
as you get faster, the unicycle gets more dangerous. The big fat red line of
this is your own personal running speed. If you exceed this, your danger
level jumps up a lot, where on a bike, it hasn’t really changed. The bike is
always going to be far more stable. Though you can bail from a unicycle more
easily, it doesn’t help you much when you’re going faster than you can run.
Especially if it’s from a really high seat.

So to ride above running speed, a unicyclist has to accept a higher level of
risk. This is okay, it’s still less risk (outside of traffic) than what a
motorcyclist faces. Though the unicyclist is likely to crash more often, the
resulting injuries are probably going to be far less life-threatening. So,
like any activity, you choose the level of danger you want to be exposed to.

But gearing up the a unicycle also makes it harder to ride. The Harper
Uni.5, with it’s 1:1.5 ratio, is fairly user-friendly. I think it works so
well and so easily because of the relatively low (sensible) ratio. As you
up the ratio, the difference between the geared uni and the equivalent
direct-drive wheel becomes more obvious. Or maybe it doesn’t. I never rode a
wheel bigger than 63", and that one was really light (and weak). Wheels that
are bigger than what’s allowed by the rider’s leg length are probably not
practical for anything other than visual effect (as opposed to getting to
work). They might not even fit through a door! As the wheel gets bigger, it
not only gets heavier (and weaker), but also gets higher. So now you face
the possibility of not only a faster crash, but one that “lands” you on the
ground at a more disturbing angle.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think the idea of riding long distances,
whether across the country or to work, is supposed to be hard. In addition
to the “hardness” of riding a unicycle, there is also the hard work of
propelling this non-geared vehicle any long distance. If it’s level ground
all the way, it’s easier than hills. But if there’s traffic (which there
usually is), you still need the ability to react quickly with both turns and
stops.

The Coker is a great compromise in that it’s still small enough for most
people to fit on, goes easily into the car, and isn’t real heavy. Plus it’s
the cheapest large-wheel unicycle out there. I think air-tire unicycles up
to about 50-55" can still be effective, depending on rider leg length. But
as the wheel gets bigger it’s going to get heavier, harder to fit in the
car, and surely more expensive.

With a geared hub, I think it will stay relatively fun to ride as long as
the ratio isn’t too high. I rode a giraffe with a 1:3 ratio once. It took me
a lot of tries to get it going, and I was still scared to take this 20"
beast beyond about 10mph, because of the much higher likelihood that I would
fall without being able to correct. I also experimented with different gear
ratios on my Schwinn Giraffe many years ago, I settled on a 26:48 ratio, but
it was still real hard to freemount, hard to ride slow, and far more likely
to crash hard than a non-geared one. So I think you need to keep the ratio
fairly low to have a safe and enjoyable ride.

> eligibility of geared unicycles in competition.

The majority of races we do in the IUF and USA are limited by equipment to
put everyone on a level playing field, with equipment that’s commonly
available. You would have to have lots of availability of geared hubs, in
lots of countries, to create a critical mass enough for us to be likely to
create a separate category for it there.

In the unlimited races, (nearly) everything goes. For NAUCC and UNICON 2002,
the unlimited events will be:
>- Downhill
>- Cross Country
>- Uphill
>- Trials
>- Orienteering
>- High Jump
>- Long Jump
>- 10k Marathon Unlimited Class

> what about long distance records (such as 100 mile).

The question here is of who is the governing body for such records? If
you’re going for a Guinness record, you have to satisfy Guinness. In the
past, this has been very hit-and-miss because they might arbitrarily change
their requirements, and even worse, arbitrarily add and remove records and
categories from their books.

Last fall I received an email from a gentleman at the Guinness organization
saying they would like to follow the lead of the IUF for future records.
This was an interesting statement, coming as it did after they released the
2002 book in the US with only two unicycling records in it. So the IUF can
be in charge of these sorts of records if we want. We still have to work
this out.

When tracking records, it’s possible to keep track of all sorts of
variations. For instance I would definitely consider a “geared” 100 mile
record to be something different from a fixed-wheel one. Whether Guinness
would be interested in listing both would be a separate issue, but we could
at least recommend which one we thought was “best”. To me I guess this would
be the fastest one, if they had to pick only one.

> available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1
> unicycles should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.

I feel like the 100 mile record won’t last another five years. With the
advent of cheap big wheels, some other athlete is going to at least attack
that record. It certainly won’t be easy to break (6:44), but now there is
more of a field to chase it.

If somebody breaks the record on a geared unicycle, I would definitely list
it separately. But both would surely be fully legitimate records. You’re
still taking one wheel 100 miles under your own power, you just pedal less
revolutions. You don’t do less mechanical work.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

RE: revs per minute

> I think that many of us are looking for a “perfect” road
> unicycle, but in reality it doesn’t exist. While I am a
> huge unicycling fanatic, we have to realize that a unicycle
> just is not as practical for speed or distance as a bicycle.

I have to agree with Jeff. As long as we’re stuck in a single gear,
unicyclists will be at a disadvantage compared to bicyclists in most
situations. If a unicycle can be designed with gears you can change when
stopped it will be a further step, but until the gears can be changed
on-the-fly it will still be a second-best comparison.

But to me, a unicycle is not supposed to be a road bike (or mountain bike,
or cruiser). We want it to stand out, and enjoy the extra effort required to
balance one, and the extra work required to go distances.

I have always believed that, at lower speeds, a unicycle is safer than a
bike. This is mostly due to the lower speed a unicycle can go, compared to a
bike where hills can get you going real fast, and where you can also
daydream a lot more easily, without constant attention to your balance. But
as you get faster, the unicycle gets more dangerous. The big fat red line of
this is your own personal running speed. If you exceed this, your danger
level jumps up a lot, where on a bike, it hasn’t really changed. The bike is
always going to be far more stable. Though you can bail from a unicycle more
easily, it doesn’t help you much when you’re going faster than you can run.
Especially if it’s from a really high seat.

So to ride above running speed, a unicyclist has to accept a higher level of
risk. This is okay, it’s still less risk (outside of traffic) than what a
motorcyclist faces. Though the unicyclist is likely to crash more often, the
resulting injuries are probably going to be far less life-threatening. So,
like any activity, you choose the level of danger you want to be exposed to.

But gearing up the a unicycle also makes it harder to ride. The Harper
Uni.5, with it’s 1:1.5 ratio, is fairly user-friendly. I think it works so
well and so easily because of the relatively low (sensible) ratio. As you
up the ratio, the difference between the geared uni and the equivalent
direct-drive wheel becomes more obvious. Or maybe it doesn’t. I never rode a
wheel bigger than 63", and that one was really light (and weak). Wheels that
are bigger than what’s allowed by the rider’s leg length are probably not
practical for anything other than visual effect (as opposed to getting to
work). They might not even fit through a door! As the wheel gets bigger, it
not only gets heavier (and weaker), but also gets higher. So now you face
the possibility of not only a faster crash, but one that “lands” you on the
ground at a more disturbing angle.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think the idea of riding long distances,
whether across the country or to work, is supposed to be hard. In addition
to the “hardness” of riding a unicycle, there is also the hard work of
propelling this non-geared vehicle any long distance. If it’s level ground
all the way, it’s easier than hills. But if there’s traffic (which there
usually is), you still need the ability to react quickly with both turns and
stops.

The Coker is a great compromise in that it’s still small enough for most
people to fit on, goes easily into the car, and isn’t real heavy. Plus it’s
the cheapest large-wheel unicycle out there. I think air-tire unicycles up
to about 50-55" can still be effective, depending on rider leg length. But
as the wheel gets bigger it’s going to get heavier, harder to fit in the
car, and surely more expensive.

With a geared hub, I think it will stay relatively fun to ride as long as
the ratio isn’t too high. I rode a giraffe with a 1:3 ratio once. It took me
a lot of tries to get it going, and I was still scared to take this 20"
beast beyond about 10mph, because of the much higher likelihood that I would
fall without being able to correct. I also experimented with different gear
ratios on my Schwinn Giraffe many years ago, I settled on a 26:48 ratio, but
it was still real hard to freemount, hard to ride slow, and far more likely
to crash hard than a non-geared one. So I think you need to keep the ratio
fairly low to have a safe and enjoyable ride.

> eligibility of geared unicycles in competition.

The majority of races we do in the IUF and USA are limited by equipment to
put everyone on a level playing field, with equipment that’s commonly
available. You would have to have lots of availability of geared hubs, in
lots of countries, to create a critical mass enough for us to be likely to
create a separate category for it there.

In the unlimited races, (nearly) everything goes. For NAUCC and UNICON 2002,
the unlimited events will be:
>- Downhill
>- Cross Country
>- Uphill
>- Trials
>- Orienteering
>- High Jump
>- Long Jump
>- 10k Marathon Unlimited Class

> what about long distance records (such as 100 mile).

The question here is of who is the governing body for such records? If
you’re going for a Guinness record, you have to satisfy Guinness. In the
past, this has been very hit-and-miss because they might arbitrarily change
their requirements, and even worse, arbitrarily add and remove records and
categories from their books.

Last fall I received an email from a gentleman at the Guinness organization
saying they would like to follow the lead of the IUF for future records.
This was an interesting statement, coming as it did after they released the
2002 book in the US with only two unicycling records in it. So the IUF can
be in charge of these sorts of records if we want. We still have to work
this out.

When tracking records, it’s possible to keep track of all sorts of
variations. For instance I would definitely consider a “geared” 100 mile
record to be something different from a fixed-wheel one. Whether Guinness
would be interested in listing both would be a separate issue, but we could
at least recommend which one we thought was “best”. To me I guess this would
be the fastest one, if they had to pick only one.

> available. But even so, my opinion is that only standard, 1:1
> unicycles should be accepted. Please let me know how you feel.

I feel like the 100 mile record won’t last another five years. With the
advent of cheap big wheels, some other athlete is going to at least attack
that record. It certainly won’t be easy to break (6:44), but now there is
more of a field to chase it.

If somebody breaks the record on a geared unicycle, I would definitely list
it separately. But both would surely be fully legitimate records. You’re
still taking one wheel 100 miles under your own power, you just pedal less
revolutions. You don’t do less mechanical work.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

Re: revs per minute

Hey Carol, which age group ARE you in? 30+? 40+? I hit the 30+ for the
first time this unicon, and I came last or equal last in all the races I
entered at Unicon last time, I like the sound of your age group, I think
I might enjoy it.

Carol said
> (In the “advanced-age women’s” category, racing is probably not as serious
> as in other groups. We chat with each other, swap recipes, wave at the
> crowd, say “excuse me” if we manage to pass someone, and I think some riders
> may have stopped for tea during the 1500 m last year.)

Eurocycle 2002, Bremen, May 31st-June 2nd
The European Unicycle Event of the year.
http://www.eurocycle.org

RE: revs per minute

> In short, for the first time in the history of the sport we
> will now be able to utilize high-end bicycle componentry to
> achieve speed by increasing inches of travel per revolution
> (with the Harper Hub) without sacrificing efficiency and
> comfort.

Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but just a little reminder that these types of
hub have been made before. Like most everything else in the cycling field,
probably over 100 years ago.

But the difference with the Harper hub is Greg’s amazing generosity in
sending it on an international “tour” for people to take free test rides.
I’ve never heard of such a thing before! I was proud to be one of the early
testers, and send in my feedback (that reminds me, I still have to mail out
some stickers).

I don’t remember Harper saying he intended to make more than two of these.
Has that changed? It’s obvious that there is now at least a small market for
them, at least as a subset of big wheel riders. The problem is that cost
would likely keep it a fairly small subset.

> For example combining a 700C with

David stone asked about the name of this size. In some other thread about
two weeks ago somebody posted a link to a site that actually explains the
history. The short answer is “The 700 doesn’t really correlate to a unit of
measure.”

I think the Harper hub on a 700C wheel will be about the optimum use of such
a system. Using a larger wheel would defeat the purpose of such a hub in the
first place, and higher ratios would make riding harder and more
crash-prone.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

Re: RE: revs per minute

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by John Foss

If somebody breaks the record on a geared unicycle, I would definitely list
it separately. But both would surely be fully legitimate records. You’re
still taking one wheel 100 miles under your own power, you just pedal less
revolutions. You don’t do less mechanical work.

>>>> In fact there are friction losses in a geared hub, compared to a direct drive. Not great losses (I can’t recall all the figures from my 2 wheeled days) but even 10% over 100 miles would be noticeable.

Still on geared hubs, modern bicycle geared hubs are smooth enough that you can change gear with only a momentary relaxation of the pressure on the pedals. There’s no need to back pedal or freewheel. I’d guess that a skilled uni rider could take the pressure off long enough to change if a uni hub were designed withtheis facility in mind.
Strikes me that the ideal would be a two speed hub - one being the normal direct drive (as is usual on 2 speed sun and planet gears) and one being an ‘overdrive’ at, say, +25%. That’d mean a 26 incher would remain nimble enough for off road work, but you could cruise on the long boring bits between.
Years ago I rode a ‘safety penny farthing’: a genuine vintage bike styled like a penny farthing, but with about a 36 inch wheel geared up to about 60 inches. If they could make that in late Victorian times, surely with all our modern technology we could do something more versatile now?

Re: revs per minute

On Wed, 08 May 2002 09:26:27 -0400, “David Stone” <dstone@packer.edu>
wrote:

>>In short, for the first time in the history of the sport
>(actually, I thought there was another similar hub produced recently)

Frank Bonsch (unifrank) in Germany was building one “in silence”
concurrently with Harper, and finished just 1 day later. Harper’s hub
has attracted a lot more attention, at least in this newsgroup,
because he almost continuously shared his progress, and now also
shares the uni.5 in this USA roundtrip.

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“Fernspah, tank, JITEM”

Re: revs per minute

> I know, I know. I should take it more seriously,

On the contrary, some people (I’m not naming any particular continents,
but they know who they are) should take the competitive aspects a little
(meaning a lot :slight_smile: ) less seriously. The British Unicycle Convention is a
very sociable and relaxed affair. Competitions are for winning chocolate.
That’s the way it should be in my opinion.

Being down on yourself for not winning races is foolishness at best:
stopping
for tea sounds like a much better idea. Who cares about national or world
competitions?

Darjeeling or Earl Grey? :slight_smile:

Arnold the Aardvark

Re: revs per minute

“John Foss” <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1020881954.1275.rsu@unicycling.org
> So to ride above running speed, a unicyclist has to accept a higher level
of
> risk. This is okay, it’s still less risk (outside of traffic) than what a
> motorcyclist faces. Though the unicyclist is likely to crash more often,
the
> resulting injuries are probably going to be far less life-threatening. So,
> like any activity, you choose the level of danger you want to be exposed
to.

I went out rollerblading last night on the London Skate with almost 1000
other people and I saw a really bad crash, a guy coming down Waterloo
Bridge, big main bridge, quite steep, probably going about 20 miles an hour
did a great big crash and burn sliding about 50 feet right across a large
roundabout on his wristguards and kneepads. Then got up and skated off. I
don’t reckon there’s that much more risk in unicycling at similar speeds, if
you’re going to go that fast then wear protection and the risk is probably
similar to unicycling without at a slower speed.

Joe

Let me respond quickly to some E-mails and posting related to speed and distance unicycling that have been directed at me:

First with regard to me and other speed and distance riders taking the competitive aspects of the sport a little too serious, here is my reply; Speed and distance unicycling has much more to do with excitement rather than “serious”. I ride in a critirium (bicycle) every Tuesday night. 175 riders would rather (including me) have their finger cut off than miss the evening of racing. Excitement, comradery, and the genuine helping of others are experienced at levels far greater than anything I have seen in my lifetime. I certainly don’t experience it at work, and can only assume that you don’t either. Ultimately racing is not about speed-it’s more about sharing a common goal and experiencing all of what I have mentioned while attempting to achieve it. Unicycle racing or touring is no different; the desire for speed and distance just brings us all together. I will continue to do all I can to encourage people to reach new heights in the sport of speed and distance unicycling. I only hope that however you choose to ride, you experience the same level of excitement, comradery, and genuine sharing of ideas that I have. Get excited!

Which brings me to my next point-I have been asked if speed and distance riders are the only people that will benefit by using Harpers hub. The answer is no. Here are two of the best examples I can give:

Having the ability to now make use of high-end bicycle wheels and tires in order to increase efficiency by using Harpers hub is Mega Big. It has to be. Simply pick up a 700C high-end bicycle wheel and observe it. Feel how light it is. Spin it and watch how true it is. Do the same with a high-end 700C tire. Now if you can, pick up a Coker wheel and observe it. Feel how heavy it is. Spin it and observe the wobbles. Observe how big and heavy the tire is. There is no comparison between the two.

Jump on an old Huffy bicycle and ride it around the block. Now jump on a high-end bicycle such as a Serata or Litespeed and ride it around the block. No comparison. The Coker is the Huffy of the unicyles, whereas the Serata is Harpers Hub with a high-end bicycle wheel. What should be most important to all riders owning Cokers or other big wheel unicycles is this: Because the new design is lighter, faster, and more efficient, we will inevitably want to spend more time riding it. At least I would hope! It will simply be more enjoyable. Riding Cokers and other Big wheels should be a testament to our tenacity and enthusiasm for the sport, because the vehicle is low-end inefficient technology. I am not knocking them at all, its just time for most to move on. In saying that, there will always be those that prefer big wheels for whatever reason, but I don’t think it will be those that ride for speed and distance.

I have heard mention of using Harpers Hub on a Coker. Why would you want to? The whole idea is to get away from heavy, cumbersome, low-end wheels. Besides, who out there thinks they can turn a heavy 54-inch gear for any length of time. Spinning a 42 to 45 inch gear while utilizing a bicycle wheel should be the goal. This combination will be plenty fast and challenging

For those concerned about hills with such a big gear. Don’t worry about it. Most do not ride hills on big wheels because of the difficulty involved now. The new vehicle will be no more or no less difficult. You will ride it just the same as you do your Coker-flat to rolling hill terrain. Hopefully some day a multi–speed uni will be developed. But don’t hold your breath. It took a long time for the internal geared hub to come about. One step at a time.

I have been asked if I think it is worth waiting for Harper Hub to become available rather than making the investment in a Coker now. That is a tuff question. I think the hub will be available in the short future but it will not be cheap. The hub by itself will be more costly than the entire Coker. The complete unicycle depending on your taste could exceed $1000 dollars. My suggestion is show up at Unicon and experiences the two for yourself. Harper will have his hub working in conjunction with a 700C wheel available for all to try. I am sure plenty of Cokers will be available as well. If you cannot make the trip to Unicon-simply wait for more feedback from others, the event is not that far away

I have had a reader ask me my thoughts about him writing an article, or a short book on the history of big-wheel unicycling. I have encouraged him to do so. I hope that he make himself known so all can share what they know. I have pointed out several people that I think are important to interview and write about. Those people are Wally Watts, Floyd Bettie, Tom Miller, John Foss, and Coker.

As I have mentioned before, the advent of Harper’s Hub will play a major role in the evolution of speed and distance unicycles. There is no better time to capture the history of the sport. Besides, some of the people that I mentioned are old buggers-I hope all are still alive.

Lastly, do not blame Harper for bringing attention to speed and distance unicycling. He is just an innovative guy who made a hub probably just to see if he could. He had no idea the impact it would have with speed and distance riders. Blame us, the people that ride them. We are the guilty ones. We will always welcome and encourage whoever we can to come join us in our sport. I hope however you ride, you do the same.

Most importantly-ride in whatever way makes you happy. Freestyle, muni, juggling or simply seeing if you can make it 10 feet down the road-- be excited about it! Remember, you are taking part in a sport that is very unique. We don’t have lots of people lined up ready to join us. We are a unique club!

dan