recent america trip

Off-topic
1

Hello there everyone,
I recently travelled to america on a school trip and was over there for two and a bit weeks. We spent time in New York, Washington DC, and Orlando florida. What i’m writing is not critical of americans but just some points that i found interesting about the country as compared to Australia.

Everything is huge- from the food servings to the cars on the road. At a time when everyone in america seems to be complaining about the price of petrol, and there are heightened fears of the effects of global warming, the size of the cars is unjustifiable and quite frankly dangerous. Back in Oz we pay about double what americans do at the petrol station-hence the cars are about half the size and are purchased for their economy.

Most of the people are really nice- if not a bit naieve. after watching the news almost every night on different stations i found the way they presented information on the war in Iraq a little strange. The throughline was no longer the motive for war or the rebuilding process- rather it based itself around the soldiers who were stuck in the situation and were dying- but not alot was said about what they were dying for. Criticism for the fundemental reasons of the war, and the way it was presented by the government was non existant. There was almost no foerign news stories unless it had something to do with america- the one exception which i’m sure would not happen every now and then was the death of pope john paul.
They are all extremely nationalistic. On a 1 hour bus trip from our accomodation to the heart of Manhattan one of the guys counted 253 american flags. People love the idea of america- freedom, liberty etc but do not consider how America affects others freedoms and liberties or even basic human rights.
The people exist in an environment that suggests that they need to be fearful. After being at 5 airports the security at them gave a sence of paranoia.
One thing i found really wonderful was the attitude of the two people i met that had lost family members in the world trade centre attacks. They were not wanting revenge, or bitter- rather they had a calm about them and just wanted to deal with there losses as losses not something that could be regained by certain courses of actions.
It was an eye opening trip to the worlds only superpower and i feel i have managed to get a very faint idea of how they have achieved that world domination. The people were wonderful and friendly but in any democratic society there needs to be a certain extent of mistrust and suspicion among the populace in order to keep the people in charge honest. Trust can be broken easier that it is to be earnt.
Please feel free to debate any of the points i have made- i’m a 17 year old who was there for only 16 days- i’d really like to hear what Americans have to say about the points i made,
Mark
oh and the society is fundementally flawed due to the basic fact that they have not embrased the meat pie!

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Wow, thanks very much for posting this. Except for your name “napalm” your comments are really interesting. I tend to agree with what you have said. I’ve done a lot of travelling, and I think that the viewpoints that other countries have are very illuminating and instructive. In addition, your comments are very well put for your youth.

I think part of the reason that the media focus on the soldiers only is because that’s all they can do without upsetting the status quo. Since half the country didn’t want the present leader in office and the strong-arm shutdown process is well oiled, there is a sense that there is not much we can do. Any rational nation-wide debate about what we can afford, the long-term political ramifications, the effect on religious tolerance, questions of being good neighbors to the world, etc., would result in chaos. You may say that this situation is the opposite of democracy, and I think you would be correct. Unfortunately this seems as though it will get worse as the soldiers return home and are forced to internally rationalize what they’ve been through.

We have a lot of health problems from eating too much, and driving big cars, and inhaling fumes, and being way too busy, and the like. We are reaping the fruits, I suppose. Worshipping corporate culture is costly on quality of life.

We do have many good points, including extraordinary creativity, imagination, and mobility. We just have to realize what impact our changing lifestyles have on ourselves and on the world.

I did spend some time in Australia, mostly adventuring though, or visiting family, and enjoyed it very much. I saw a US ship (destroyer) come into Hobart, Tasmania, and it was a big impact on the local society, mostly negative. I apologize for this and hope we can do better sometime soon.

Oh- and meat pies are great; wish we had them here!

3

Re: recent america trip

Like UTurn said, it’s a delight to read such a thoughtful response.

Just to comment, over half of the families with persons who died in the 9-11 attacks continued to be against the death penalty, even for the 9-11 perpetrators.

The number of flags flown virtually quadrupled after 9-11 (and any Arabs HAD to fly one or risk the consequences… Remember Bush kept saying : You’re either with us or against us)

Americans don’t care that they use most of the world’s resources. If oil runs low, we can invade Iraq and get theirs.

Billy

4

I think Napalm is completely right. In my mind, we’re a crazy militaristic, nationalistic, in some cases rich and snobby, ego-crazed country. I’m not against America, just the way it is governed.

5

Tyler, I would have to say that what you said was not a good idea.

It is interesting how nationalistic we are, though.

6

Does the flag automaticly equal nationalism? I’ve mainly associate the flags with celebrations. Thinking of the word “flag” the next word that pops up in my head is “birthday”.

7

Re: recent america trip

That depends entirely on the news station you watch.

8

F*ck America. Let that flag burn, LET IT BURN!

9

Hmmm,The fake one isnt TOO differnt from the real one…

10

Borges-

You would associate the flag with birthdays, being from Denmark and all- I was an American living in Denmark as a student back in 1998 and one of the first things I noticed was how the Danish flag always was on display at celebrations and especially birthdays- I know of no such tradition here in the USA.

I miss spring in Copenhagen, even though I only experienced it once!

11

U-turn, about my name, that has been a bit of an unofficial nickname for me since i was 6 and nearly burnt our house down when i put rice crackers in the toaster. I’ve been considering changing it- due to the fact that what my name is caused so much pain and mutilation to innocent people, and me being a sane person finding that vile. On that matter does anyone know how to change your name on the forums?
Mark

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Only way to change is to get a whole new profile and name and everything. Basically just re-register for the site.

13

DONT change your name! There is no reason to, and it is a pain when someone does (trying to keep up)

14

That was very interesting. Thanks for writing it. Keep in mind that visiting various locations along our east coast does not give you an accurate picture of the whole country, just as visiting Sydney, Canberra, and Melbourne wouldn’t give me a thorough understanding of Australia. Out west, but away from the West coast, things are very different from what you saw. This is a huge country with many diverse sub-cultures, and I imagine your “review” of our country would have been very different had you visited, for instance, Texas, Wyoming and Northern Idaho instead of three dense urban areas on the east coast.

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Re: recent america trip

Obviously you didn’t come to North Carolina for some LIVERMUSH :smiley:

16

Americans are pretty nationalistic, but that’s actually pretty standard whereever you travel. It’s much harder to see in your own society or country until you experience it somewhere else. I lived in Germany, and I heard the same thing over and over. However, I could clearly see the German nationalism that they failed to see. Each county has its own baggage in that department.

Americans do seem recently to have embraced a much more limited distinction between religion and government, and now a vocal minority wants the government to assert and implement various religious-oriented controls, thereby blurring the distinction between the powers of religion and those of government. It’s unclear if they recognize that they are doing this, or its logical consequences (more government control over religion), or if there might be a pendulum swing in the other direction in sight. It’s an interesting debate, no matter what side you take.

Over-eating is pretty prevelant in the west generally, though some countries seem to have it worse than others. We are definitely becoming a country of fatties. But it doesn’t make sense to talk about individual people or their will power. It’s a systemic problem, a societal problem. It should become a thread here sometime.

Some - including me - might argue that democracy is not well-served by radicalization. I would personally like to see the end of fundamentalist executive office control over the other branches of government. But outside of California, democracy doesn’t work that way – that is, if you think CA’s recall system is democratic. (IMHO: it’s not in spirit, dunno about letter.) So we have to wait.

Thus, I don’t think the invective is particularly helpful. That said, I agree the Ami Dems are not particularly effective at the moment at crafting a credible national alternative. And there are currently no other national-level actors capable of mounting a serious challenge to the current regime. So again, we have to wait.

There is a dark drape over the coverage of world news in the US, excepting a few major events. When you live abroad and move back to the US, you miss real bread and real news, not necessarily in that order.

I have known a lot of Europeans who have returned from America with a bad taste, a disdain and disgust for the excesses they saw. Your healthy curiosity is great. Laudable. Thanks for starting the thread.

P.S. Flag waving is by defintion a form of nationalism. It’s a symbol of the nation. Period. It chokes some people up with emotion just like the Star Spangled Banner does. If you think it doesn’t, that it’s innocuous, then it has already done what it does best.