Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

General
1

— harper <harper.5fe1b@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:
> Can you elaborate on the Velo unicycle seat or is that proprietary?

In September 2000 I approached Velo, through Norco, about making a seat that was as comfortable as
the Carbonfibre airseat, but cost about as much as the Viscount or Miyata seats.

A year later they finally agreed to do something jointly with Norco, thanks to the owner of Norco,
who’s good friends with the owner of Velo. So I sent them a bunch of drawings and suggestions.
The reason it took so long to convince them is that it’s a pretty expensive process- my prototype
seat cost about U.S.$30,000!

So far it’s looking really good- the seat is shaped somewhat similarly to a Viscount (in
curvature), but with about 5cm thickness of the softest, best quality closed-cell foam you can
get. The front handle looks like a Miyata handle but is about 2cm longer to accomodate larger
fingers, and is quite a bit stronger where it attaches to the seat.

The underside perimeter of the seat is also rounded to be more comfortable for seat-out-in-front
hops.

Right now the prototype seat frame isn’t quite as rigid as I’d like, but they are currently fixing
that problem.

The price of the seat will be in the Viscount or Miyata range.

Cheers,

Kris.

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

2

Do you realize how worshipped you are if someone is willing to pay $30k to make something just for you to put your butt on it? Milk it, Kris.

3

Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

Hi Kris,
Do you have any pics of the prototype or maybe the initial drawings
that you sent them. Is this primarily a trials and muni seat or do you
think it would transfer over to distance riding? Later.

Aj

4

Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

Hi Kris,
Do you have any pics of the prototype or maybe the initial drawings
that you sent them. Is this primarily a trials and muni seat or do you
think it would transfer over to distance riding? Later.

Aj

5

Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

Hi,

I don’t have any pictures of it yet. It’s not just a MUni or Trials seat- it would be good for
distance riding too.

The reason for using foam, compared to an airseat, is that airseats are not practicable for mass
production. However, I still find it just as comfortable as my carbonfibre airseat. That said,
for those people willing to spend $300 on a seat, the carbonfibre airseat will still likely
represent the top-of-the-line seat.

$30,000 for a prototype is totally in-line with the cost that a mainstream manufacturer would
incur to produce any bike seat. Basically I needed to convince them that the unicycling industry
is headed towards more mainstream levels of production, and they committed to this concept.

-Kris

— Greg Harper <harper@forums.gilby.com> wrote:
>
> Kris-
>
> I don’t see them recovering the $30k by selling unicycle seats in the $20 to $50 range. The cost
> of the
> prototype indicates that there are certainly no hobbyists involved in its production. Is the
> foam more
> comfortable than an airseat to you? I suppose it should conform and distribute force uniformly
> in the
> same way an airseat would just not quite as quickly.
>
> Please take no offense at my response to your post. I couldn’t help creating an image like that
> given
> the accommodating lead in that you provided. Thanks for all of your spectacular riding and the
> entertainment and inspiration that it has provided for everyone in the community. I look forward
> to
> the opportunity to meet you at NAUCC/UNICON which I presume you will attend. It is there that I
> will
> publicly kick your ass in the high jump as long as unicycles are not involved. I used to be a
> high jumper.
> I used to be able to dunk a basketball. I used to be 25 years old. Now my daughter is. Go
> figure.
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
> Greg Harper…the frequent faller
> It takes three times the man to ride half the bike one and a half times as fast

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

6

RE: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

> The reason it took so long to convince them is that it’s a
> pretty expensive process- my prototype seat cost about U.S.$30,000!

In case anyone was wondering why there are so few really good unicycle seats
out there…

> curvature), but with about 5cm thickness of the softest, best
> quality closed-cell foam you can get.

The reason for the foam is understood. But will this seat be convertible to
air? If not, there might become a cottage industry to make conversions, or
add them on top, or whatever. Hopefully the design allows a conversion to
air for the serious unicyclists.

> The front handle looks like a Miyata handle but is about
> 2cm longer to accommodate larger
> fingers, and is quite a bit stronger where it attaches to the seat.

Sounds great. Everybody except Freestyle people should be happy. Another
possible cottage industry variation would be a Freestyle model with no
handle. Currently, members of TCUC cut them off.

> The price of the seat will be in the Viscount or Miyata range.

Awesome! The Miyata seats were always great, and worth the price. The
problem with them, until very recently, was that there usually weren’t any.
In the past there were only one or two shipments from Miyata per year, no
matter how quickly they sold out. Now we should finally have a choice of
good, available saddles!

> Basically I needed to convince them that the unicycling industry
> is headed towards more mainstream levels of production, and they
> committed to this concept.

With the advent of Unicycle.com, there is now a way for unicycles to be
custom-manufactured for specific needs. I’m sure the new seat will become an
optional item, available on most of the cycles or as an upgrade later.

How does it attach to the post? Using rails would require seatpost upgrades
for most unicycles as well, but it’s about time unicycles went to something
more standardized.

Well done Kris!

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

Howard Stern: “How many wheels does a unicycle have?”
The beautiful but vacant, recently-crowned Miss Howard Stern: “Four?”

7

RE: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

— John Foss <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote:
> > The front handle looks like a Miyata handle but is about
> > 2cm longer to accommodate larger
> > fingers, and is quite a bit stronger where it attaches to the seat.
>
> Sounds great. Everybody except Freestyle people should be happy. Another
> possible cottage industry variation would be a Freestyle model with no
> handle. Currently, members of TCUC cut them off.

The seat should still fit the original Velo front bumper, which didn’t have a handle. I’ve
suggested to them that they still make this style available.

The new handle is good, but not quite perfect. I wanted them to make it wider-radius around the
front of the handle to make it more comfortable, but it’s still a bit too narrow in my opinion
(and once the final mold is made, you really can’t change things). That said, it’s still a big
improvement over the existing Miyata handle.

> How does it attach to the post? Using rails would require seatpost upgrades
> for most unicycles as well, but it’s about time unicycles went to something
> more standardized.

The seat will initially come with a simple bolt-on post. The bolt pattern is identical to the
Viscount, Semcycle, and Schwinn pattern. ASAP I will arrange for rails brackets to be made that
can fit this bolt pattern (the original wilder bracket won’t fit this seat).

John you also mentioned airseat conversions. Honestly I think most people will find it
sufficiently comfortable without an airseat conversion. However, for those people who really want
it, you’d have to cut up the foam like you do on a Viscount. I initially suggested that Velo make
a removable seatcover, but this was rejected due to expense.

-Kris.

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

8

I wouldn’t worry about the foam vs air seat. I’ve been using high quality closed cell foam in my miyata seats and I think it’s just as comfterbal as an air seat. plus the foam doesn’t move around like an innertube does

peter

9

Is the seat going to be tilted up like a carbonfibre seat?

And would you be able to put a Reader Handle on it?
dan

10

would i be able to cut the handle off?

would i be able to cut the handl off? and put a sorta handle right under the seat? Right now i put my hand on the seat to grab it, ive built a hand hold with duct tape, wich is very nice, would i be able to do the same thing with this seat?

11

RE: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

> The seat should still fit the original Velo front bumper,
> which didn’t have a handle. I’ve
> suggested to them that they still make this style available.

Is that the “original” Velo prototype, or did they make unicycle seats
already?

> The seat will initially come with a simple bolt-on post. The
> bolt pattern is identical to the Viscount, Semcycle, and
> Schwinn pattern.

This is good for compatibility, but bad on weight…

> John you also mentioned airseat conversions. Honestly I
> think most people will find it
> sufficiently comfortable without an airseat conversion.

Sounds nice. So you guys rode the 24 Hours of Adrenaline with no air seats?

> However, for those people who really want
> it, you’d have to cut up the foam like you do on a Viscount.
> I initially suggested that Velo make
> a removable seatcover, but this was rejected due to expense.

That works. The removable nature of the Miyata seat cover is also the cause
of many peoples’ problems with the clips cutting their hands.

Thanks for the info,

JF

12

RE: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

> The seat should still fit the original Velo front bumper,
> which didn’t have a handle. I’ve
> suggested to them that they still make this style available.

Is that the “original” Velo prototype, or did they make unicycle seats
already?

> The seat will initially come with a simple bolt-on post. The
> bolt pattern is identical to the Viscount, Semcycle, and
> Schwinn pattern.

This is good for compatibility, but bad on weight…

> John you also mentioned airseat conversions. Honestly I
> think most people will find it
> sufficiently comfortable without an airseat conversion.

Sounds nice. So you guys rode the 24 Hours of Adrenaline with no air seats?

> However, for those people who really want
> it, you’d have to cut up the foam like you do on a Viscount.
> I initially suggested that Velo make
> a removable seatcover, but this was rejected due to expense.

That works. The removable nature of the Miyata seat cover is also the cause
of many peoples’ problems with the clips cutting their hands.

Thanks for the info,

JF

13

Re: Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

— uni-man-dan <uni-man-dan.5hkqm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:
>
> Is the seat going to be tilted up like a carbonfibre seat?
>
> And would you be able to put a Reader Handle on it?
> dan
>

Initially the seat won’t be tilted up like a carbonfibre seat- it will be at a similar angle to
most seats. However, once I arrange it, you’ll be able to get a Wilder bracket that fits this
seat and then you can tilt it to any angle you want.

If you wanted to you could probably put a Reeder Handle on it, but you’d have to drill a few new
holes. The easiest might be to drill holes in the Reeder handle attachment plate to fit the seat,
rather than the other way around.

-Kris.

>
> –
> uni-man-dan - http://www.thedan.com
>
> http://www.thedan.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> uni-man-dan’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/464
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/18410
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list - www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

14

Re: Re: Two words- go norco/ New Seat from Velo

You probably could but I’m not sure why you’d want to.

— brokenframe <brokenframe.5hnaa@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:
>
> would i be able to cut the handl off? and put a sorta handle right
> under the seat? Right now i put my hand on the seat to grab it, ive
> built a hand hold with duct tape, wich is very nice, would i be able to
> do the same thing with this seat?
>
>
> –
> brokenframe
>
> Old enuf to know better. Young enuf to do it again.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> brokenframe’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/726
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/18410
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list - www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

15

reply

i like my hand to be right under the seat, thats what ive been riding for as long as ive been riding, i like it, its not way out infront, and its fairly confertable, i can mold the duct tape to my exact hand print, so its nice.:slight_smile: