questions about lacing and sources for nipples.

so it seems that my wheel is missing 10 nipples all-of-a-sudden and i have no replacements for them. I had a few questions about nipples and spoke patterns.

my setup

KH hub
Koxx street rim (now bent a little)
whatever spokes you can order from renegade.

i have a triple cross pattern w/ the 3rd cross switched (top spoke under the bottom spoke at 3rd cross)
I have some 12 ga. nipples that screw on, but don’t fit through the holes in the rim, i also have some 14 ga??? nipples that don’t fit onto the spokes. i guess my question is : are the nipples just thinner 12 ga. nipples, 13 ga, or even 14 ga.?

also, is the cross pattern i used making my wheel too tight and “brittle” to the point that i need to use a different pattern?

does anyone know the size of the spokes sold by renegade?

also, with this many spokes off at once, is it better to relace the whole wheel w/ new nipples?

That sounds like a standard 3 cross set up. I can’t imagine it’s making your wheel weak. The missing spokes will definitely be weakening your wheel.

I’m pretty sure the spokes will be 12 or 14, but I’ve not read up on my nipples lately.

I think replacing the whole set of spokes and nipples might be a good idea as you will have stressed the remaining ones quite a lot with 1/3 or 1/4 or the spokes snapped, but you could just replace and re-true the 12 now and see how it holds up.


i’m pretty sure that the spokes are stainless, and if that’s the case, i won’t be replacing them anytime soon.

i’m hoping someone will know, so i can order them today, and get them in the mail.

spokes aren’t stainless, but i’d rather patch it up for now, as they are only a few months old, and i havn’t done anything insane w/ it

… anyone know what guage spokes they use at renegade?
sapim spokes, 2.25 mm
whatever that is?

hmm, that’s not a regular size.

UK (& US) 12 gauge is 2.6 mm
UK (& US) 13 gauge is 2.3 mm

It sounds like your spokes are too short. Normally the stress on spokes breaks the spokes, not the nipples. If your nipples are breaking it is usually because the spokes don’t go deep enough into them to give them strength at the rim. If this is the case you will need new spokes, and nipples to really fix your problem.

I know you don’t want to buy new spokes, but if they are too short you will continue to break nipples.

I hope this helps.

Alternatively buy longer nipples. Any LBS that doesn’t stock them will be able to order a box for you.

The end spokes break at might say something about the spoke length. But it also can say something about how you broke the spoke. I know I landed on top of my unicycle with a spoke on a rock, and did a spoke at the nipple end, and I’ve seen a few other nipple end spoke breaks, that weren’t a sign of too short spokes.

As for the diameter of the spokes - did you measure that yourself? If they’re butted spokes, you might have measured the wrong place. Best bet is to go to a bike shop, and try some 12, 13 and 14g nipples.

Although bike shops may not have 13 gauge as it’s a weird size.

Also, you say ‘you are missing 10 nipples’, presumably you have also snapped 10 spokes? If that isn’t the case, and the spokes have just come out of the nipples then it might well be a super dodgy loose wheel build that is your problem, although it’d be weird for the nipples to go anywhere in that case. If that is the case, then just buy nipples at the same time as you buy spokes, just try some out at a shop.


nah, i live an hour away from the nearest bike shop, the spokes are probably too short.
they go into the nipples just shy of the heads, and thats where they broke, exactly at the end of the spokes, as in the broken nipples (still screwed on) were flush w/ the spoke end, and the other end was clattering around in my rim.

is there another way to lace the wheel so that the spokes are effectively a little bit longer?
… i don’t want to buy new spokes at all.

You can buy spokes for $15 off the net with nipples. I’m sure you have that. Ask for long brass nipples and 172mm spokes. Cheaper than going to a bike shop and getting 10 spokes cut. Buy some spares at the same time. If your spokes aren’t broken, but have split nipples–order some nipples. $2 for a bag. has ridiculously long brass nipples that should hold even for you. Call him up.