Oracle brake (and other stupid thoughts)

General
1

Alrighty then, let’s get this thing started.

I’ve decided that I want to buy a new Muni with my first paycheck as a pat on the back. Had thoughts of an Oregon, but with some insight and soul searching, I’m almost wondering if I’d be happier on a smaller wheel.

I ride my 29 for everything, since that’s what I’ve got. But lately, I’ve been finding myself doing more tech stuff, as well as big climbing. I never thought I’d say it, but I’m gonna go back on everything I ever believed, and get a smaller wheel size.

I’m looking into 24 :astonished: , 26 :o, and possibly 650b :roll_eyes: .

Here’s where the technical questions come in. See, I like the Oracle, except for a few things. First off, I’m not sure I want to buy an Oracle in 24 or 26 and end up screwing around with the Bengal brake on it. I’d rather go right for the mechanical TRP Spyre if possible, though I’m not super crazy about removing bearings and putting them back on (I know it’s easy but I don’t have a bearing puller).

Second, I’m a steel guy. I’m wary of an aluminum frame cracking or breaking. The frame has been the biggest factor keeping me from biting the bullet and getting a KH and the Oracles also have an aluminum frame. Am I worried over nuthin’?

If I ended up with a 24 or a 26 I don’t have to have a brake. Especially on a 24. At the cost of a KH, it’d be harder for me to spend extra on a brake at the moment. However, on Oracles, it sounds like I’d be buying a new brake for it anyways.

I’ve also considered going with a classic steel framed, bomb-proof, Nimbus Muni and just upgrading the hell out of it.

Just thinking aloud here. If anyone has any pointers, feel free to let me know. I’m hanging on to my 29 as well, so I’ll always have that to fall back on for XC, unless I reeeeaaaaaaallly like what I get and decide to only ride that :roll_eyes: .

I’ve bad mouthed small wheels for so long, I feel a bit hypocritical, but while tossing the idea around in my head today, I think it could be the answer.

I did a big climb this weekend, and almost turned around because it got to the point that it wasn’t fun anymore. I wonder if a smaller wheel would help with this?

2

I think you are, even when the riding gets really big and tech no one breaks alu frames :slight_smile:

This isn’t a bad idea either! If you prefer steel frames anyway I’d recommend this option. You’d get a bombproof uni with only those upgrades you really want and it might be a bit cheaper too!

3

Hi, i have a nimbus oracle 24" and a nimbus 26" Muni. in my opinion as you have a 29" i would go with the 24" as it will be more different where as the 26" is more similar and you might find that you still want to get a 24" afterwards if that makes any sense. :slight_smile:

as an owner of an oracle i can say i have never experienced problems with the aluminium frame or the brake but it is still quite new so might be problems later on. the thing i find most annoying with the oracle is the rim width of 42mm as sometimes when side hoping up hill the tyre bends under the wheel whereas the KH has a 47mm wide rim so i guess this would happen less/never happen but i don’t know as i have never ridden one.

overall i would say the oracle is a very good Muni and i am a big fan of having a brake for Muni.

I would recommend the oracle but i would wait and see if some one who has a KH posts to see what they think so you can hear both sides :slight_smile:

When considering which to buy i started this thread it might help :slight_smile:

(i wrote this just after waking up so sorry if it makes no sense):smiley:

I hope this helps :slight_smile:

4

The oracle also has a rounded frame which I prefer as i bash my legs on it less :slight_smile:

5

That depends how technical ‘technical’ is - I can ride a 29er down most trails it’s only ‘true’ downhill that I need the 24 for.

+1 on hating the Bengal - I hear the low end Shimanos (m596) are good as is the Spyre. If I were you I’d go hydraulic but the Spyre is still a good brake from what I’ve heard.

Considering that you’ve already got a 29er though, I’d definitley go with a 24 rather than a 26 or 650b. For really techy stuff, nothing can beat a 24x3 (duro or gazz) for strength and performance.

The Oracle frame is BOMBPROOF, end of. KH frames break due to their frankly poor design (new ones are stronger though), but even then frame snaps are rare. Aluminium is lighter and stiffer than steel too not to mention the fact that it doesn’t rust.

In all honesty, brakes on a 24 are pointless mostly IMHO. I used to have a brake on my Oracle 24, but when it broke (stupid bengal) I wasn’t that bothered - 24 doesn’t ‘get away’ from you like a 29er does.

IMHO that sound like a good idea. I hardly ride my 24 anymore (because I’ve got my 29er) so there’s actually little point hanging onto my ‘old’ Oracle. I find that my 24 is only good for skills training or really techy stuff - not an ‘everyday’ uni that’s for sure.

I can’t speak for 26er riding but riding a 24 uphill is like riding in a lower gear, with a flat tyre. You have to apply less torque to the pedals (lower ‘gear’) but you feel like you’re riding a slug.

Hope my really long post has helped. :stuck_out_tongue:

6

Higher pressure helps more than wide rim if the pressure is still too low. If there is any folding when hopping (on a hill or not) the problem is either the pressure or just bad, worn out, broken tire.

7

The aluminum is plenty strong, KH had some breakage issues due to design, but that has been fixed (redesigned) since 2009/10?, but even the old design rarely broke in the bigger frames; folks broke the early KH 20’s more often.

Steel is cheap, heavy, and strong. You pay three to four times as much money for an aluminum frame, but the only advantage is lighter weight.

I am now riding my Oracle 29/650b more than my Oregon, mostly because it is lighter weight; the extra couple pounds of extra wide hub, heavy wheels, and steel frame, all make a difference on long rides, esp climbing.

On my Oracles I run Spirits with the external rotor, so my wheels are symetrical build just like non disc brake unis. I prefer the symetrical builds, they are stronger, flex less, easier to build and maintain. The Oracle 100mm spaced hub has narow flange spacing, the disc side spoke are quite steep.

For the past couple years, since the Oregon and Nightrider came out with disc hubs, I have been building wheel sets for my unis. I have two wheel sets for three unis, so six “unis” in total. It is less expensive and takes up less room to build unis this way, and it just makes good sense.

You have a perfectly fine Drak, nice rounded crown steel frame, decent wheel though kinda heavy with that Nimbus rim. You can rebuild the 29" wheel with a lighter rim (Velocity Blunt 35 saves 1# in wt) or leave it alone, get some spirits and the Spyre or other brake, so now you have a poor man’s Oracle. Then build a second smaller wheel for tech muni (hub, spokes, rim, tire, spirits). This is the least expensive route. Down the road, if you feel the need, you can get a KH or Nimbus Oracle frame.

In terms of which wheel is best, that’s your call. When I rode at the Bellingham munifest, I was the only one on a 29er and it showed; I had to walk more than the small wheeled folks. I don’t think a 24" is necessary to do tech muni, I rode 26" for years and it was perfectly fine; I find the 24" is just too small for riding any kind of distance. A smaller wheel will help you on steep climbs.

Okay, so now you have a job and the money is burning a hole in your pocket, so go spend it!!

Also, if you go with the Spirits and the external disc, you can run a Schlumpf later on :wink:

8

This. You could even go full custom with a Nimbus steel frame and choose your own hub/rim (32h trials rims?).

9

I’d say a 26 because 24s are still to small in my opinion, I have. A 24in wheel with spiris and I still haven’t found a reason to ride it vs a 26

10

People break the 20inch KH frames and thats due to what is done on them. The 24/26 and bigger kh frames rarely break. The only ones that broke were the 2007 model and that was due to a simple flaw in design which has been redesigned. Aluminum frames are awesome, never had an issue with one before for muni. For wheel size, get a 26inch, you can always put a smaller wheel on it if you want. I say a 26 because I know riders who can shred down the most technical terrain just as well as a 24inch can. Also you are use to a bigger wheel so the change would be perfect for you.

11

Wowzers! Thanks for all the info guys. Definitely very helpful, and I know which way I’m leaning now (but I ain’t sayin yet cause I’ll prolly change my mind :D).

Sounds like my frame worries are unfounded and now that I think about it, all the broken ones I’ve seen were 20" trials frames. Definitely more extreme than I’ll be riding.

12

I have never been a small-wheel hater. I still love the 24 size, though I don’t have a proper muni at that size.

I’ve just gotten into the big wheel world with a 29 and 36 purchased in the past year, and I love them, but again I maintain if I had to have one wheel size it would be a 24. They go fast enough on trails, are agile, and easier going up hills, at least for my size (which is on the small end).

I too am going to get a 24 soon. I have a proper trials, 29, and 36, so I think it might complete my collection. Since it will probably be my least used uni (I don’t do muni that much), I was thinking of picking up a Nimbus or used KH. I should probably be able to find something good used, either online or at Nationals. I don’t think I will need brakes for it. I have yet to feel a need for brakes on a 24, but then again I have almost never done real muni on one, though I do still play around with my Sem at the NIH campus and often go down crazy steep grass hills with no problem. On the bigger wheels like the 29 and 36 brakes are necessary, at least for me, due to the momentum of that bigger wheel.

Now the question is what size tire? Usually 24s have the 24x3. Can I go a bit skinnier? If so, what size and will the standard 24" rim handle it?

Do any of you have experience with a tire a bit skinnier than a 24x3 and serious muni? I’m thinking if I go with a lighter tire it will make the uni a bit faster, given that I don’t do terribly technical muni. If you have experience with a skinnier tire on the 24 wheel, please comment.

13

I’m curious about this, too, although I’m thinking more for cross country and BMX tracks mixed with paved bike paths and skateparks. I have the Oddyssey Aitken tire on a 20" unicycle and I really like its versatility. There’s a 24" version that’s 2.25" wide and I wonder if it will fit on a muni rim like the Nimbus Dominator2 (42mm) or if it would be better to use something like the RhynoLite (38mm).

14

It seems like with a 24 you should be able to go a lot skinnier than 3 inches. On larger wheel sizes people ride muni on smaller widths. Maybe on a 24 tires spin out easier because of increased torque. In that case a wider tire would come in handy.

15

I think in Kris Holm’s book he talks about the skinnier tire setup on a 24, but I don’t recall people talking about that setup in use on this forum…

16

The 24" is a “bastard” size, so getting a decent tire is hard, and is sure to get harder yet.

I’d stick with a 26" for tire choice unless you are 100% satisfied with a Duro.

In a 26" there are tons of tires, from skinny to fat, thick to thin, light to heavy, it is still the number one mtb tire choice.

17

This is why I wish my muni was a 26 instead of a 24.

18

I got a dozen tires that I ride for the 26

19

Well, it looks like for me, it’s back to the age old debate of 24 vs. 26. I know all the pros and cons, just need to decide.

How well does the UCM brake setup work with regular ol’ steel frame Munis? Is it a PITA shimming bolts and calipers and discs, etc.?

Also, I wonder how willing UDC is to powdercoat a frame or swap me out a rim… :roll_eyes:

20

I ran a dbreak on a n26 for external disk with no issues.