"No Bicycles" / "Pedestrians Only"

I think everyone’s arguments are well followed up with good information. It is probably more of an insurance issue for purposes of the possibility of accidents and being sued. One of the problems with this is the non-unicyclist, from my experience, views unicycles as more of a liability then a bicycle, even though a unicycle rider knows better, you would need a very good argument to prove otherwise to the non-rider. Knowing the area you are speaking of, this place is so “opinionated” and conservative, I doubt that you will sway anyone as to allowing a unicycle on a pedestrian trail but good luck.

Well I went to the trail organization meeting tonight. It’s actually the monthly board meeting, but it’s open to the public. There really isn’t a meeting for just plain members. Being a member pretty much means you’re just supporting the trails, and receiving a newsletter. There were about 8 board members and 2 of us new members. The average age in the room was probably in the high 50’s. They were all very welcoming. “Mmmm young blood!” :wink: (I’m just about 34… but it’s all relative)

Early on I introduced myself as a mountain unicyclist. I was surprised not to get any clown jokes. And at least one person said they saw me on a trail.
At the end of the meeting I explained that I came to learn about which trails I’m allowed to ride.

I might not understand it all completely, but this is how I think it is.

Town Owned Trails
Over the recent years, my town has been buying up land to preserve green space. The managed trails on town land are open to hiking, biking, and horses. Though it sounds like there isn’t very much horse activity.
Donated Land
Some of the trails are on land that has been donated by people who owned it. Or maybe they still own it? However it is, these trails have the “Pedestrian Only” because that was/is required by the donor/owner. It sounds to me like someone did a good thing by letting people use their land for recreation, so I think I’m cool with that. (Not to mention there aren’t a whole lot of trails in this category)
County Owned
A good number of trails are on county owned land. There is a currently a county law/restriction/whatever that says “No Bicycles” on these trails. ally1776, you might be right about the liability issues with this one.
But it sounds like there is some effort to remove this restriction, so I’ll have to learn more about that.

There’s one fairly new trail that the group made that is on a piece of land surrounded by county land. So you can’t bike into it, but you can bike on it.
They recommended getting dropped in by helicopter. :roll_eyes:

Some members shared info with me about other riding places in nearby towns. There’s some kind of trail system just for mountain biking not too far away.
So I learned a lot about the trails.

And I am now a member, so that’s cool. I’m sure I’ll be helping out with trail maintenance and trail building soon. Before I know it I’ll have them eating out of my hand and doing my bidding.
Mwwaaa haaa haaa haaaaaaa! :smiley:

Good job getting involved! One of the biggest barriers to cycle access is that the people who show up at these kinds of meetings tend to be retired old-guard folks; you can get mountain bikers out if there’s a specific trail access issue, but it improves your credibility if you’re willing to show up for general parkland/trail meetings.

It’s pretty common that municipalities have more relaxed regulations than larger entities. Here in the East Bay, the regional park district has a ton of land, with a good amount of singletrack, and almost all of the singletrack is off-limits to bikes. The water district doesn’t allow biking at all, even on fire roads. Our favorite parks are small municipal parks in Oakland and Fairfield–both of them are just one square mile, but they offer great trails. You can have a lot of fun in a small area on a unicycle.

Good luck!

I like that. The problem with bikes is largely the speed.

It’s always a good idea to slow down and say “passing on your left/right” so that joggers in front of you won’t get too startled.

I would assume that most “pedestrian only” signs have more to do with safety than erosion control.

I work in local government, and advise our road/trail/park people. Cudos to MuniorBust - your approach is right on, and if you stick with it I’m confident you’ll make great progess.

Not sure I agree with this comment, though. I’ve been jogging, and it really pisses me off when other runners go flying by me. :wink:

FINALLY, someone else sees him from my point of view. Fossy seems to be getting jerkier and jerkier as the time goes by, and people just seem to all be in love with him for some reason or other.


To positively contribute to this thread, I was reading up on a national park that is going to allow mountain bikers for the first time, and the RESOUNDING responses across several forums and blogs was that this was one of the worst things that could happen. I really had no idea that the majority of “park users” are anti-bike.

I wonder if it’s the same in countries that have a much “healthier” view about biking more.

His not a jerk, he is a curmudgeon :slight_smile:

People must be detatched from nature, they must not experience it through personal experience but through National Geographic and the Discovery Channel. Only thus shal we save our natural places.

Yeah, I’ll agree to that definition exactly. I think that most of the time he may even mean well, but it certainly doesn’t come across as that.

Yeah, everyone is concerned with preserving our “natural wonders”. This one park, that I was talking about, the proposed mountain bike trail would go over an old landfill. Yet, everyone is still up in arms. And a lot of the people posting are “avid bikers”, they say. I just cannot fathom how that attitude is formed.

Mostly, there’s a small cadre of anti-bike folks who have too much time on their hands, who try to sway these debates by drowning out any attempts at compromise. I can probably name at least four people who are part of the “resounding consensus”–they’re the same ones who post the same tired (and debunked) arguments over and over.

Nice to see you getting involved in a proactive way. If you are in it for the long haul, keep going to those meetings. They joked about you being “young blood”.
(I’m making up a number, but it’s high), 90% of jokes like this are based on true sentiments. If you keep going, pretty soon they will be asking you to be part of the board, and if you get enough “young blood” sitting next to you, you will be able to craft more change. You might be looking at a year or two to get on the board, and 5+ to twist things around to your evil ways, :wink: after they see first hand how non-threatening a MUni on the trail can be. Getting a few more younger buddies that MUni would help too.

My whitewater club is now run entirely by the “young blood”, btw, so I’ve seen it happen. It wasn’t being run poorly by the older guys, just that they were ready for a break and glad to see some people with youthful energy take the reins, (and stress). The older guys are all still with the club, but just to chill and have fun. The same may apply in your neck of the woods.

Good luck.

I’d like to address the skid/mud/jerk debate(s).

Skid: Sure a MUni can skid. Sometimes I’ll skid about 2-3 inches, perform a artistic dance move (on one wheel) to regain control and balance, and keep on going. Occasionally I’ll skid longer than 3 inches, say 12-15 and find myself squarely on my butt. Not sure I can say that this move eroded the trail more than a hiker, because I have also “skidded” while hiking/trail running far worse than I ever have on a MUni. :smiley:

A speedy bike on the trail will “power skid” for 20,30+ feet into a corner, maybe even around a corner. Something a MUni could never, ever come close to replicating, not even on your best day. Those are the type of skids that I think John Foss is referring to, BTW.

Mud: In deep mud, I can power through on my Mountain bike. As I bog down, I can turn the pedals, peeling out, digging deeper as I’m throwing mud everywhere as I slosh though. On the MUni at the same muddy spot, I enter, try to ride it, loose nearly all speed, take 1-3 pedal strokes as I fall in whatever direction the mud propelled me. Then I walk past the mud, exerting the same pressures on the trail as any other hiker, so in the end, far less wear and tear on the trail with a MUni than a bike. On a wet trail that is still ridable, my fat, low pressure patch of contact with a 3" tire wears less than a bike’s double narrow tracks.

Jerk: Nope. John’s not a jerk. I’ve met him. I’ve rode with him. Several times. …Well, there was that one time… that I broke a crank in half in Moab, UT. After I walked the last few miles of Porcupine Rim Trail down to the road, he borrowed my broken steed and rode it one footed up and down the road and may have said something to the affect: “Not sure what the problem is here, seems fine to me.” :smiley: Bastard. :roll_eyes:

[I]Council rangers and police last week combined to hand out $250 fines to 110 cyclists for riding through a council park, raising more than $25,000.

‘‘It is regrettable we are fining cyclists,’’ Cr Oke said yesterday. ‘‘There should be safe commuter bike paths through key parks in Melbourne.’’[/I]

DOH!

http://www.theage.com.au/national/city-councillor-to-review-park-cycling-fines-20090917-ftpb.html

I, for one, didn’t say I disagreed with him, (on this ONE SUBJECT) he happens to be correct. However, it’s his tone, that has increasingly over the years gotten more and more miserly, that I have a problem with.

Firstly, he quoted a JOKE as the reason for his rather ill tempered remark. A remark that was in itself COMPLETELY nonsense coming from the person that it did. John, in my most humble of opinions, is one of the worst offenders of posting OPINION as not only fact, but as gospel as spoken by JOHN, that we must all follow or be sent to (unicycle) hell. He is constantly spouting off about things that are most of the time not even on topic, and are always just assumption. Point in fact, he did that very thing in this instance. He stating something absolutely (unicycles don’t skid), that, as most of us full well know is not true. Now, it may be as you have stated that his intent was something different, but that’s not what he stated. And still, even if his intent had been different, he states as FACT his opinion that has not had any scientific research done to verify its validity. Then states another “fact” (bikes go around puddles, widening the trail) as a reason why his OPINION is indeed the law. Unicyclists have the same ability (and I’d posit, more reason and therefore probably a great likelihood) to go around puddles, and widen the trail.

And to put the final nail in the coffin. He states a classical logic fallacy that goes to show the little thought that he puts into his berating posts. It does not matter how many of one thing there are to another. When the discussion is “a” versus “b” the only thing that goes into the conclusion is SINGLE instance examples.

To get personal, John likes to think himself better than many, and certainly better than the likes of me. He snidely puts me down when I do little more than stick up for someone that is not sticking up for themselves. I have never started a fight or argument ever. I merely respond to others’ insults. I have been labelled a troll in the past, but I am actually less of a troll than John has become, as of late.

And, to clarify a point of possible confusion. Many people act COMPLETELY differently in real life as compared to online forums, such as these. I’ve seen John in videos. I am quite sure, from seeing his personality in “live action”, that in real life he is a nice guy. But, once he sheds his physical barriers, his online attitude is often very much insulting, insinuating, and usually downright unnecessary.

: S I didn’t mean “jerk” to sound that personal, but after going back to read it . . .

anyway point being, I didn’t mean it that seriously n.n’

It’s like some sort of mind control conspiracy. Whenever someone disagrees with John, a few days later, they are apologizing, or pretending like it never happened. If I was a tin hat wearing fellow (more so than I already am, of course) I’d think there was something really fishy going on. :slight_smile:

Ah well…

Sorry for jacking the thread, hope ya find luck in turning around the no bike laws.