Neural pathways...

I’m still quite a unicycling newbie. So every time I go out practicing I
notice a definite improvement over the last time. I mean that as soon as
I’m on I’m going farther and balancing better then when I had finished up
the last practice.

Now… you could just put this down to the fact that at the end of the
last practice I was tired and at the beginning of this practice I’m
refreshed. BUT… it seems to me that I’ve heard somewhere that your
neural pathways actually improve (are laid down in the brain) after a
practice over-night while you are sleeping, not while the actual
practicing is going on. This is what I tend to tell people but I’d like to
know if there is anyone else out there who KNOWS about this topic?

(Not that there are any unicycling neuro-surgeons out that read this NG…
though I’m quite sure that there must be some unicycling neuro-surgeons in
existence.)

Christopher Grove

“Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone who
can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
me.)

My short story at: http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manusc-
ript=6862016&t=The+Determination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srdt=-
9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32%3A05+AM&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=4000&-
s=735143750&folder=Search+Results

I don’t KNOW about this subject but I’d like to share something related.

I have read that during sleep (especially the sleep later in the night,
after about 5 hours IIRC) the things you have leared the previous day are
“consolidated” in your memory. I don’t know how this works, maybe by
transfer for short-term to long-term memory, or by repeatedly “going over
it” so that it becomes engraved. The advice was given that if you’re
studying, be sure to have enough sleep so that you get to that late-stage
sleep and effectively retain what you learned.

Klaas Bil

On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:35:06 GMT, Christopher Grove
<c_r_grove@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I’m still quite a unicycling newbie. So every time I go out practicing I
>notice a definite improvement over the last time. I mean that as soon as
>I’m on I’m going farther and balancing better then when I had finished up
>the last practice.
>
>Now… you could just put this down to the fact that at the end of the
>last practice I was tired and at the beginning of this practice I’m
>refreshed. BUT… it seems to me that I’ve heard somewhere that your
>neural pathways actually improve (are laid down in the brain) after a
>practice over-night while you are sleeping, not while the actual
>practicing is going on. This is what I tend to tell people but I’d like
>to know if there is anyone else out there who KNOWS about this topic?
>
>(Not that there are any unicycling neuro-surgeons out that read this
>NG… though I’m quite sure that there must be some unicycling
>neuro-surgeons in existence.)
>
>Christopher Grove
>–
>“Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone
>who can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
>me.)
>
>My short story at: http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manus-
>cript=6862016&t=The+Determination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srd-
>t=9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32%3A05+AM&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=40-
>00&s=735143750&folder=Search+Results


“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked
automagically from a database:” “North Korea, crack, Cuba”

A web search for ‘motor engram’ should turn up the information
you’re after.

Cheers, Greg

I remember in my high school music class I had a teacher tell me that if,
during practice, you make a mistake you must repeat the section 8-10 times
without error to “unlearn” your mistake.

When practicing new skills on the unicycle I try and follow that rule.
Unfortunately I find that often as I’m learning a new skill I cannot
execute the skill 8-10 times (perfectly or otherwise). I wonder if my
inablity to do the skill perfectly the first time hinders my ability to
ever get it right since I’ve presumably now embedded the mistake (or poor
technique) into my brain.

-mg “Christopher Grove” <c_r_grove@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3BDAB7FA.19B1E809@yahoo.com
> I’m still quite a unicycling newbie. So every time I go out practicing I
> notice a definite improvement over the last time. I mean that as soon as
> I’m on I’m going farther and balancing better then when I had finished
> up the last practice.
>
> Now… you could just put this down to the fact that at the end of the
> last practice I was tired and at the beginning of this practice I’m
> refreshed. BUT… it seems to me that I’ve heard somewhere that your
> neural pathways actually improve (are laid down in the brain) after a
> practice over-night while you are sleeping, not while the actual
> practicing is going on. This is what I tend to tell people but I’d like
> to know if there is anyone else out there who KNOWS about this topic?
>
> (Not that there are any unicycling neuro-surgeons out that read this
> NG… though I’m quite sure that there must be some unicycling
> neuro-surgeons in existence.)
>
> Christopher Grove
> –
> “Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone
> who can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
> me.)
>
> My short story at:
>
http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manuscript=6862016&t=The±
Det ermination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srdt=9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32-
%3A05+A M&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=4000&s=735143750&folde-
r=Search+Re sults

With reference to sleep consolidated learning. . .

To my knowledge, this is pretty much correct. It was based on studies of
rats who had learnt to navigate mazes. The study involved recording from
`place’ cells in the hippocampus (I think that’s the region) that are
activated in response to specific cues relating to a physical region and
orientation. Different place cells are activated according to where the
rat is in the maze. The bit about learning in your sleep came from the
observation that when the rats were sleeping, their place cells would fire
up in the order that they were running through the maze. Rats that showed
this activity learnt the mazes faster than those that didn’t show the
sleep-activity.

This led to the hypothesis that you `relive’ your days experiences when
you sleep, consolidating the important bits. This could be how come our
dreams often relate to what we did in the previous day or week.

A related thing is the so-called ‘motor-memory’ or ‘muscle-memory’. This
involves cerebellum networks that control repetitive muscle actions like
playing the piano and juggling (two of my favourite hobbies). As the
pathways become potentiated, they are more easily activated and you can do
things faster, easier and subconsciously. The motor-memory is not actually
in your muscles, it’s in the back of your head. I’m pretty certain it
would apply to all balance related activites like unicycling.

nic (not a qualified neurosurgeon, but a neuroscience student who has
done neurosurgery - when I’m running a research lab, you can be sure
juggling and unicycling are going to figure highly on my research
activities. Hrmmm, how can I get the NIH to fund research involving
teaching rats to unicycle)

On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Klaas Bil wrote:

> I don’t KNOW about this subject but I’d like to share something related.
>
> I have read that during sleep (especially the sleep later in the night,
> after about 5 hours IIRC) the things you have leared the previous day
> are “consolidated” in your memory. I don’t know how this works, maybe by
> transfer for short-term to long-term memory, or by repeatedly "going
> over it" so that it becomes engraved. The advice was given that if
> you’re studying, be sure to have enough sleep so that you get to that
> late-stage sleep and effectively retain what you learned.
>
> Klaas Bil
>
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:35:06 GMT, Christopher Grove
> <c_r_grove@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I’m still quite a unicycling newbie. So every time I go out practicing
> >I notice a definite improvement over the last time. I mean that as soon
> >as I’m on I’m going farther and balancing better then when I had
> >finished up the last practice.
> >
> >Now… you could just put this down to the fact that at the end of the
> >last practice I was tired and at the beginning of this practice I’m
> >refreshed. BUT… it seems to me that I’ve heard somewhere that your
> >neural pathways actually improve (are laid down in the brain) after a
> >practice over-night while you are sleeping, not while the actual
> >practicing is going on. This is what I tend to tell people but I’d like
> >to know if there is anyone else out there who KNOWS about this topic?
> >
> >(Not that there are any unicycling neuro-surgeons out that read this
> >NG… though I’m quite sure that there must be some unicycling
> >neuro-surgeons in existence.)
> >
> >Christopher Grove
> >–
> >“Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone
> >who can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
> >me.)
> >
> >My short story at: http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&man-
> >uscript=6862016&t=The+Determination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove-
> >&srdt=9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32%3A05+AM&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana-
> >&ps=4000&s=735143750&folder=Search+Results
>
> –
> "To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been
> picked automagically from a database:" “North Korea, crack, Cuba”

On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:52:14 -0600, “Michael Grant”
<michael_j_grant@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I remember in my high school music class I had a teacher tell me that if,
>during practice, you make a mistake you must repeat the section 8-10
>times without error to “unlearn” your mistake.
>
>When practicing new skills on the unicycle I try and follow that rule.
>Unfortunately I find that often as I’m learning a new skill I cannot
>execute the skill 8-10 times (perfectly or otherwise). I wonder if my
>inablity to do the skill perfectly the first time hinders my ability to
>ever get it right since I’ve presumably now embedded the mistake (or poor
>technique) into my brain.

It occurs to me that if you could learn a new skill by executing it 8-10
times correctly, you could effectively do it at once, without any learning
at all. In our less ideal world, though, we learn things slowly just
because we make these mistakes. In playing a musical instrument you can
often rehearse a passage slowly, in unicycling this is seldom the case.

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked
automagically from a database:” “president, USS Enterprise, killed”

> I have read that during sleep (especially the sleep later in the night,
> after about 5 hours IIRC) the things you have leared the previous day
> are “consolidated” in your memory. I don’t know how this works,

It depends if you are using Norton Speeddisk, Microsoft Disk Defragmenter,
Diskeeper, or other product to keep your thoughts in order.

Sorry, a little computer nerd humor…

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

> I remember in my high school music class I had a teacher tell me that
> if, during practice, you make a mistake you must repeat the section 8-10
> times without error to “unlearn” your mistake.
>
> When practicing new skills on the unicycle I try and follow that rule.

This is a good general rule for performers to use. If you’re going to use
a trick in your show (and it’s supposed to work), it’s not professional to
perform it before it’s really solid. It may take a while before you can do
it this many times in a row successfully, but that’s what separates a
disciplined rider from an average one.

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

> Hrmmm, how can I get the NIH to fund research involving teaching rats to
> unicycle)

I don’t know but I’d love to see a video!

Stay on top, John Foss

I’m not a rat, but I know this pathways stuff is true from my own
experience

John Foss wrote:

> Sorry, a little computer nerd humor…

JOHN! You aren’t a computer nerd TOO!!!??? :wink:

…John Foss the ComputiCYCLONE ???

Christopher Grove “THE UNICYCLICAL ECCENTRIC” <way huge grin>

(hope everyone caught my ingenious play on words there - eccentric… git
it? git it??)


“Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone who
can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
me.)

My short story at: http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manusc-
ript=6862016&t=The+Determination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srdt=-
9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32%3A05+AM&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=4000&-
s=735143750&folder=Search+Results

I was watching Alan Alda on “American Scientific Frontiers” yesterday. He
was doing a segment with this scientist studying fruit-flies. The
experiment was testing what exposure to something it took for long term
memory to kick in.

To make this short… assuming that the same NUMBER of repetitions of
exposure were used each time, if the repetitions were made very close
together the fruit-flies did not gain long term memory of the events… if
the repetitions were made very far apart in time there was also no long
term memory of the events. BUT if the repetitions happened in some middle
range long term memory DID occur. (the ‘events’ were electric shock BTW…
they were ‘learning’ to avoid it… stupid fruit-flies!!)

IF, and it’s a big if, you could transfer this to humans learning to
unicycle it would seem that the best way to learn something would be to
not work yourself to death trying to get the hang of something and have a
not-to-long period of rest between your learning exposure to let the
neuro-pathways to establish themselves.

Christopher Grove “The Man Who Learns From Fruit-Flies”


“Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone who
can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
me.)

My short story at: http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manusc-
ript=6862016&t=The+Determination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srdt=-
9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32%3A05+AM&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=4000&-
s=735143750&folder=Search+Results

Hmm, maybe sleep IS Mother Nature’s Disk Defragmenter…

Klaas Bil

On 28 Oct 2001 18:10:02 -0800, jfoss@unicycling.com (John Foss) wrote:

>> I have read that during sleep (especially the sleep later in the night,
>> after about 5 hours IIRC) the things you have leared the previous day
>> are “consolidated” in your memory. I don’t know how this works,
>
>It depends if you are using Norton Speeddisk, Microsoft Disk
>Defragmenter, Diskeeper, or other product to keep your thoughts in order.

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked
automagically from a database:” “Afghanistan, Anthrax, XTC”

Hmm, maybe sleep IS Mother Nature’s Disk Defragmenter…

Klaas Bil

On 28 Oct 2001 18:10:02 -0800, jfoss@unicycling.com (John Foss) wrote:

>> I have read that during sleep (especially the sleep later in the night,
>> after about 5 hours IIRC) the things you have leared the previous day
>> are “consolidated” in your memory. I don’t know how this works,
>
>It depends if you are using Norton Speeddisk, Microsoft Disk
>Defragmenter, Diskeeper, or other product to keep your thoughts in order.

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked
automagically from a database:” “Afghanistan, Anthrax, XTC”

In article <NBBBKOADPOOMALIBGILAAEFPDEAA.jfoss@unicycling.com>, “John
Foss” <jfoss@unicycling.com> wrote:

> It depends if you are using Norton Speeddisk, Microsoft Disk
> Defragmenter, Diskeeper, or other product to keep your thoughts
> in order.
You’re not seriously telling me you’d let anything Microsoft reorganise
your thoughts for you - oh sure, that’s what Microsoft WANT - but it’d be
no good waking up in the morning feeling blue and thinking “I did not
correctly fall asleep, To prevent myself thinking this again I must select
sleep from my start menu”

xADF

In article <NBBBKOADPOOMALIBGILAAEFPDEAA.jfoss@unicycling.com>, “John
Foss” <jfoss@unicycling.com> wrote:

> It depends if you are using Norton Speeddisk, Microsoft Disk
> Defragmenter, Diskeeper, or other product to keep your thoughts
> in order.
You’re not seriously telling me you’d let anything Microsoft reorganise
your thoughts for you - oh sure, that’s what Microsoft WANT - but it’d be
no good waking up in the morning feeling blue and thinking “I did not
correctly fall asleep, To prevent myself thinking this again I must select
sleep from my start menu”

xADF