NAUCC Muni Courses

General
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I am starting my own thread for this so hopefully it won’t interfere with the NAUCC thread and can only be a memory once addressed (self explanatory as you read on) my questions are with regard to the muni races for whoever can answer or might be familiar from this or past events.

I am going to prerequisite with…I hope I don’t offend anyone, especially the people hosting the NAUCC with the below questions/statements and I totally blame myself due to my lack of experience both regarding unicycle events and riding. I have never been to any type of unicycle event, so do not be offended, take these as questions of ignorance from complete inexperience and one who is trying to gain knowledge of this upcoming event to decide whether or not to attend.

Let me add I can see much hard work has been put into this event and it is very much appreciated as a unicyclist whether or not participating that the hosts have gone above and beyond to do so much in such a short amount of time to facilitate an event like this on the East Coast, so congratulations to all of you who have worked to do this, you should be proud and commended.

There seems to be a nice beginner muni course with plenty of room for a good group of riders, no seriously technical terrain, good planning, nice job.

Here is where my questions/statements might get me into hot water. :o I do not see any distinguishable difference between the intermediate and advanced muni courses. I honestly am disappointed not seeing a noteworthy difference. I was hoping to find a good “dividing course” for intermediate riders so I could plan this ride, yet my observation shows it to be in essence the same course as the advanced riders. The definition of intermediate is “half way”. Therefore, I was expecting the intermediate course would be half way between beginner and advanced skill level of riding. Yet,I only see what potentially might be a few more rock gardens and a slightly longer distance for the advanced course from what the intermediate course offers. My understanding of any type competitive event, each class distinguishes ability, it is the challenge that the class presents to the competitor, I don’t see the distinction between two classes of riders if they are riding over the same terrain, just slightly less of it, and in my flawed opinion it is or would be considered the same skill level of riding.

I’m concerned for a few reasons. With regard to myself, I am not an advanced rider, I have much to learn, (including how these events take shape) however I am not a beginner rider and find it unmerited if I enter as a beginner. I am that “half way” between beginner and advanced, thus should classify myself as intermediate. I am able to do some technical, but not as much of what is presented in the intermediate video. I find myself torn because although I may perhaps walk the rougher parts of the scheduled intermediate muni course, according to the IUF Rules I cannot pass a mounted rider which would probably put me in the back of the pack from the first rock garden to the end.

So to sum up, why is there no discernible difference between the intermediate and advanced course?

Another apprehension I have are some entrants going to enter the intermediate because they don’t want to be labeled as “beginner” only to wreak havoc on the more able riders when they attempt some parts of the trail that are too advanced for them, but egos and/ or similarity to my situation places them in the intermediate/advanced course so as not to label themselves “beginners”. Is chaos going to emerge on the trail.

With this in mind I would also like to ask if the intermediate course lends to the IUF Rules that state:
“When course building, it is important to imagine what it would be like for ten or more people to fight over it at top speed. Avoid trails that will not work for this, or plan for additional heats with smaller numbers of riders. Look for areas that will create bottlenecks, such as technical spots and uphill areas, and plan the course so these areas do not have too many riders at the same time.”
Seems like both the intermediate/advance courses encompass frequent bottlenecks, understandable for advanced riders, as I am certain advanced riders will excel at different phases of the course route and also have the experience to adapt. For intermediates; the construct doesn’t look as though it works with the IUF Rules from observing the video.

I am aware I could walk the more technical parts of the course, I recognize I could do the beginner course I don’t think that would be proper to participate as a beginner since I do have time in the saddle and ride more technical than what the beginner course offers again from my observation of the beginner videos, and I understand I should come for the fun of it but honestly if I’m walking every other quarter mile and not truly participating in the sport in the manor that I would like, it isn’t going to be fun. I certainly am able to afford to travel to the event and participate, but I cannot see spending my time there if I am walking much of a muni trail and going to feel defeated as it is the only event I would compete in, so you see my quandary. :thinking:

This being said one more question is does the IUF Rules allow a contestant to enter both beginner and intermediate contests and if so how would that work as far as participation/placements.

I understand everyone’s excitement about this event, for myself being a “middle of the road rider”, I find I am on the fence with regard to attending, maybe it’s my own ego getting in the way, if so I’m sorry. I hope this post is taken in the context it is meant as does not cause insult to anyone, I merely have questions/concerns before making my decision. Thanks for any explanations/input, so I can make a judgment that I feel best for my situation. I’m reserving my decision for a few months and hope to have a better understanding. Thanks.

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No offense taken at the post. Please don’t take offense at the reply.


I do not see any distinguishable difference between the intermediate and advanced muni courses. I honestly am disappointed not seeing a noteworthy difference.

Intermediate and Advanced are one class. It is the same course. It is different from the Expert course. More later.

The definition of intermediate is “half way”.

That’s why the term Advanced was used. I chose the word Advanced because a rider should be aware that they will be riding though technical sections and not just easy doubletrack paths.

The Expert course is harder. In the Expert course there are more technical sections which are also more difficult. The Expert course has more technical climbs. The Expert course also has technical climbs through rock gardens. The Expert technical sections are longer. If you’re between Beginner and Advanced, Expert is out of the question. Trust me.

I am able to do some technical, but not as much of what is presented in the intermediate video. I find myself torn because although I may perhaps walk the rougher parts of the scheduled intermediate muni course, according to the IUF Rules I cannot pass a mounted rider which would probably put me in the back of the pack from the first rock garden to the end.

First- thanks for watching the video.

Walking is fine. If you are unsure of yourself through it, please do so. It is true you cannot pass a mounted rider and the mounted rider has the right-of-way.

It should be noted that the Beginner race is short. They typically are well under 1/2 hour in length. The Advanced will most likely take 40-50 min+ at race pace.

One thing to note is that the first rock garden does not occur on the Advanced course until approximately 2 miles into the course. There are sections of roots and climbs and descents, but the first garden in the video is over 1/2 way through the course. For the Expert course, the first rock garden is much sooner. It is about 1 1/2 miles in after a technical climbing section that the Advanced skips.

So to sum up, why is there no discernible difference between the intermediate and advanced course?

The 3 categories for MUni are Beginner, Advanced, and Expert. I’m not bringing this up again to belittle in the least. I checked the http://www.uninationals2013.com website and am trying to figure out where the term Intermediate has been used. I’m trying to correct confusion. We have occasionally had an error that we’ve tried to correct quickly with the schedule or terminology. Please help me here.

Another apprehension I have are some entrants going to enter the intermediate because they don’t want to be labeled as “beginner” only to wreak havoc on the more able riders when they attempt some parts of the trail that are too advanced for them, but egos and/ or similarity to my situation places them in the intermediate/advanced course so as not to label themselves “beginners”. Is chaos going to emerge on the trail.

There is a chance this could happen with any course. However, the course has a wide open access road and some climbing on said access road that should thin the herd significantly before there is any chance for a bottleneck to occur.

With this in mind I would also like to ask if the intermediate course lends to the IUF Rules that state:
“When course building, it is important to imagine what it would be like for ten or more people to fight over it at top speed. Avoid trails that will not work for this, or plan for additional heats with smaller numbers of riders. Look for areas that will create bottlenecks, such as technical spots and uphill areas, and plan the course so these areas do not have too many riders at the same time.”
Seems like both the intermediate/advance courses encompass frequent bottlenecks, understandable for advanced riders, as I am certain advanced riders will excel at different phases of the course route and also have the experience to adapt. For intermediates; the construct doesn’t look as though it works with the IUF Rules from observing the video.

The trails at Moraine are often used for mountain bike racing and we’re using parts of those courses for the uni races.

The flat access road section and first climb will separate the pack significantly. It happens when the bikes race and will happens when the unis race as well.

The video was only intended to inform people that the Advanced section was Advanced and should be treated as such. The video does not film the entire course in real time. That would be boring.

I am aware I could walk the more technical parts of the course, I recognize I could do the beginner course I don’t think that would be proper to participate as a beginner since I do have time in the saddle and ride more technical than what the beginner course offers again from my observation of the beginner videos, and I understand I should come for the fun of it but honestly if I’m walking every other quarter mile and not truly participating in the sport in the manor that I would like, it isn’t going to be fun. I certainly am able to afford to travel to the event and participate, but I cannot see spending my time there if I am walking much of a muni trail and going to feel defeated as it is the only event I would compete in, so you see my quandary.

Nearly every rock garden on the Advanced course is documented on the video. The first section of singletrack is not because after peer review from several riders who have attended NAUCCs in the past the decision was made to add it back in to make the course better. They are appropriate Advanced level riders (one of them moving quickly up from Beginner). They only hop about curb height on a regular basis and do walk rock gardens.

You will not be walking every quarter mile unless you cannot ride over 3" high bumps. If 3" rocks make you nervous, then you should not sign up for Advanced.

The Advanced course technical bits are often on downhill sections which make them quite roll-able. Those rock gardens occur after the first half of the course. Once at the top of the course (about the 1/2 way point) the second half of the Advanced course is almost all downhill (especially compared to the first half).

EVERY rider we’ve had on it (1/2 dozen or so) has commented how awesome it is.

This being said one more question is does the IUF Rules allow a contestant to enter both beginner and intermediate contests and if so how would that work as far as participation/placements.

It should be noted that we are not 100% under IUF rules. We are operating under the Unicycling Society of America rules. They are very similar.

As far as doing both: starting Advanced voids the Beginner results.

I understand everyone’s excitement about this event, for myself being a “middle of the road rider”, I find I am on the fence with regard to attending, maybe it’s my own ego getting in the way, if so I’m sorry. I hope this post is taken in the context it is meant as does not cause insult to anyone, I merely have questions/concerns before making my decision. Thanks for any explanations/input, so I can make a judgment that I feel best for my situation. I’m reserving my decision for a few months and hope to have a better understanding. Thanks.

We are definitely excited. I don’t think you should be on the fence about attending. If you never have attended an NAUCC before, they’re an absolute blast. We are hoping to expose more East Coast riders to the fun. It’s like Summer camp with unicycles. I always come away a better rider (and with more uni friends!)

I’m not insulted, and I hope I’m not insulting either.

Please note: the video of Moraine can only show so much. We are having a preview ride on the Monday of NAUCC. In addition the GPS maps are on the site.

We’re always looking to go ride there too. Fill out the comment form on the site to let us know if you want to get a tour some weekend. If it fits with our schedule we’ll be glad to show you around (we are quite busy until July 28th!).

Also note: there is a whole lot of riding to be done at NAUCC 2013. DON’T limit yourself to one style even though that’s what you ride the most. Trials (Beginner and Advanced/Expert) has been a lot of fun for many MUni riders who do mostly MUni. Track too (with the appropriate wheel size).

One last thing: I try to avoid bragging, but I think it should be mentioned that I have been racing unis in mountain bike races for the past 5 years. Before that I raced bikes for years. I have experience planning courses and organizing events. I’ve been to 3 NAUCCs as well. I race quite well- when racing against unis and when racing unis against bikes. I am an Expert. However, we’re also a club that has taught about 90 people to ride over the past 4 years and have introduced many to MUni. We started in '09 with just a handful of people.

In short: I know my stuff. I’m not trying to brag or offend, but I can say that the MUni courses this year will suit all levels of riders. Our Race Director (my wife) likes the Beginner MUni, but then again- she doesn’t do rocks. Some of our Advanced riders have done the Expert course under race conditions. They note that it is above their ability and needed to walk some sections. They agree that the Advanced and Expert courses are quite different. I didn’t do a video for the Expert course as the concern is people appropriately choosing Beginner vs. Advanced. I don’t want to see people get in too far over their heads and not enjoy the ride.

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Great question!
Great answer!
Lots of good info here.

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I am not involved in the current Nationals, and haven’t ever ridden in Pittsburgh, so I can’t speak to the specific courses, but I can speak to the constraints of organizing MUni competitions (I was the U Games MUni director in 2010).

With MUni, the courses tend to be highly constrained by the available trails, your agreements with the land use managers on how you can use them, and the logistics of running the event. Unlike most of the other events, MUni takes place on real-world terrain and you have to build a course based on that terrain. MUni also requires a large number of distributed volunteers to mark and monitor the courses, and communicating with those volunteers is difficult-to-impossible once you’ve sent them out. MUni is probably the hardest event to run (unless you count judging freestyle, which is impossible).

I think most of the things you’re worrying about won’t be significant issues. A MUni XC race on technical terrain thins out very quickly; you’ll find yourself riding near two or three people who are around your level, and you’ll all be falling off and walking at more or less the same spots. If you’re lucky you’ll have someone nearby to race as you head towards the finish line, but more typically there are large gaps between riders by the end.

At U Games, I encouraged people who were MUni riders at all to ride the main XC race. There was a beginner’s race that was very explicitly for non-MUni riding children (1km of flat). I think everyone had fun.

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Thanks Tom. Spot on assessments.

Each year the NAUCC takes on a slightly different flavor as well. We do have 3 levels for this year. The Expert definitely is for Experts. As the site description says the benchmark time is 1:14. It’s longer than all the the other NAUCC Expert courses have been time-wise in the NAUCCs I’ve attended ('09, '11, and '12). It is more difficult too. Pennsylvania terrain has a lot to do with that.

The design of the Advanced course this year was to give a middle ground between Beginner and Expert. Logistically we sought to keep locations to a minimum. It took hours of scouting to determine an appropriate course for the Advanced course. I really, honestly think we have it based upon our riders’ experiences with NAUCCs and their ability levels. Their feedback says the course is challenging, but fits the level of rider.

I hope people strongly consider attending this year.

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A little bit to add to all the excellent advice so far:

The question you might have asked was “when do I have to pick which race I’m entering?” If you are allowed to change your mind after arriving in town (I haven’t looked to see the deadline), you could check out the trails first.

That said, the next, and most important piece of advice for these things is, don’t take it too seriously. This is unicycling after all, and how you do will not affect your future career in the sport. So do your best, and aim to have fun! If you do, you can’t lose.

I signed up for the Expert race, even though I know I’m slow. I like knowing I completed the course.

Last advice: Definitely show up. NAUCC is about participating, at all ability levels, trying new stuff, and meeting people with the same affliction you have; a love of one-wheeled transportation. :slight_smile:

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For muni, you can change your mind on what level you wish to compete in after arriving in town and checking out the courses. The selections on the registration site are used to help the organizers know approximately how many people will compete in each group. It also helps us to determine what the age groups should be and how to award medals.

Hope that helps.

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Unigoat - No offense taken either, thank you for your time to reply such as you did.
I am going to guess I used the term intermediate not thinking, as you stated you addressed this as an advanced course, much different. I extend my apology, as I went on the assumption the middle level was intermediate and I know the standing joke regarding assumptions do :wink:

It is evident from all that you have processed and done that you are an expert rider and possess much experience, without a doubt, congrats again on doing such a great job.

Everyone has provided some really good information to digest, all very much appreciated. Thanks for the input.

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Thanks unicyclerider!

We hope you’ll make it this year. Our goal is to put on the best possible event we’re capable of doing for the competitors and spectators alike. We have been utlilizing over 15 years’ worth of local connections to put together well planned and hopefully well executed week of events that will live on in memories long after NAUCC 2013 is over.

The replies on this thread have been great. Thanks Scott, John, Tom, and Buzz. All of you guys are definitely Experts!

Our vision is to have the public show up throughout the week of NAUCC 2013to see the talent and hard work the competitors have invested in the sport.

Many of the disciplines in unicycling (Distance, MUni, Street, and Trials to name a few) are relatively young. We want to showcase the full spectrum of participants to the local public (and hopefully some bigger sponsors too) to get some recognition for the outdoor and “extreme” segments of the sport. We want people to know that Artistic performances are an important part of the sport, but by no means the end of what’s possible.

I personally would love to see NAUCC 2013 bring an end to people whistling circus music when encountering me on a 35 mile 36er ride. A lofty goal for sure.:slight_smile:

As a local club we strive to move riders into becoming Experts at their comfortable pace (well, we do push them a bit- betcha can’t…)

Unicycling is full of tremendously talented and friendly people. There are a few who can make a living at it, but most of us just love the thrill and challenge of bettering our skill sets.

Unicycling events hold some of my fondest memories. Many on these boards would say the same.