The National Debt has passed 8 trillion dollars. Look here for the most up-to-date United States of America National Debt.
Does anybody care? Certainly not the President.
i live in the only dept free province in canada and it feels pretty nice 
-paul
I like this one:
http://brillig.com/debt_clock/
and also http://costofwar.com
whoa. I kept refreshing that first link and the debt was going up like 1 or 2 hundred thousand dollars in a few seconds!
heh, well look at the second one, costofwar.com…its just going up rapidly all the time.
holy crap. that makes money seem really crazy, i’m planning a big trip around asia after grad and now i feel like i’m just saving change off the ground compared to that.
Yes it’s high but the president knows the best way to fix it, so we have nothing to worry about: Spend more money and lower taxes.
I’m not so sure that debt is a bad thing, especially national debt. Unless it’s out of control.
First off the government can just make more money, they print it. Though that effectively would result in inflation, so everyone else pays the debt.
Second, if the government had no debt that means more money was/is being taken out of people’s pockets who would most likely have a better use for it. More money in your pocket, via less in taxes. Right now the US government is spending a lot of money on a temporary action it’s taken, not that I agree with the action, but it’s temporary and increasing the debt is better than the alternative (raising taxes).
There are a lot of people who are interested in investing in the debt via US bonds and other US investment options, which results in a very low interest rate that the government can borrow money from these people/institutions. It’s a lot better than having all of us, you and me, have to get our own loans at much higher rates, to pay for it.
If only I could run my budget the way the government does. Spend as much money as I want with no regard for ever paying it back.
just print more money eh? send that idea to your congressman, it’s a good one. right now over 25% of the taxes we pay goes toward interest on the national debt alone. yeah i certainly do “have a better use for it”. also, nobody is arguing that the government shouldn’t use bonds to pay for the war, upper class tax cuts and other stupidities. they’re not going to finance these things by asking us to go to the bank and get a loan for them. the point is that they shouldn’t be so wasteful with our money in the first place. we americans will ultimately have to pay our debts, but lucky for us the men who got us in this situation will be long gone.
Um, you can. Get a bunch of credit cards, spend away, then declare bankruptcy. It’s pretty popular…
Ever notice that there are 100’s of “get an advance on your paycheck” businesses in every state? There is a sizable segment of the US population with NO savings whatsoever. People living paycheck to paycheck, and still able to accumulate debt through generously stupid creditors.
Consumerism is a very addictive drug, and it’s constantly being pushed to the American public. Hey, kid, wanna buy a toy? No money down, no interest for 12 months… try it, you’ll like it! 
Not no more. Haven’t you heard about the new bankruptcy law that went into effect in October?
That’s where it hurts the most. Imports are getting very expensive. Teh dollar isn’t worth much to other nations, so traveling is more expensive.
And of course, France owns us, when they want to collect on the debt.
Billy
You know that only applies to peons, not the Bushes or multinational corporations…
Actually, the men who got us into this situation are profiting on it. Those taxes you pay go into the pockets of the CEO of companies who supply the war. It’s how the rich get richer, the middle class barely stays middle, and poverty grows under Bush.
But the creditors aren’t stupid, it’s the consumers. Maybe nobody ever taught them anything about money management. Maybe they can never get far enough ahead to start a checking account. Unfortunately neither of those is someone else’s fault. Sure we could improve our educational system, but it’s up to people to figure out how to live.
The fact is, I started my first bank account before I had $100 to my name. I don’t think that’s the actual problem. It’s more about people not trying to manage their money.
My wife hates all those check cashing places. They are evil predators who take advantage of people who really can’t afford to be taken advantage of. Many of her employees use these places despite many attempts she’s made to educate people about them.
Unfortunately, poor people are very easy to take advantage of. All you need is a lack of scruples, and it’s easy to fool people who are often under-educated.
Yup, the national debt is bad. The bigger it gets, the easier it is for it to absorb multi-billion dollar appropriations for “pet projects” of the administration that’s in office too. In Iraq we’re currently committed. We didn’t necessarily have to be, but we are now. Hopefully we bring the job to a successful and lasting conclusion. Though we can argue that Bush’s cronies are profiting big-time in the situation (seems a little too obvious), there may not be any good ways to speed the war up. As an occupation/insurgency, it usually takes time before the opposition loses its will. First they have to be convinced that we won’t lose ours…
Gilby: Is that how you manage YOUR money–better to go into debt than pay-as-you-go?
The other problem is that, on a world scale, as the dollar drops in value (caused by debt, and by printing more), you actually make less on each tee shirt you sell, and people who work for a living make less and less even though their wage stays the same or increases.
Because they cannot buuy as much with it.
What’s wrong with getting money from taxpayers to pay as you go? Tax increases can be rolled back–Bush has done it bigtime for those in the top tax bracket.
Billy
Odd question, as using the word than instead of then makes it a conflicting question. There are essentially three options: pay cash now, borrow money to pay as you go, or not spend it. I suppose you could add a fourth and split the “borrow money to pay as you go” and add: borrow money and only pay the interest as a perpetuity. So is your question whether it’s better to pay off some of the principle each year than to only pay the interest? It depends.
Neither of the 4 ways are better than another. They all are useful for different things/scenarios. Let’s take a home as an example. An interest only loan can make sense for a home. Why does it ever need to be paid off? Just maintain it and it’ll always be useful. You could borrow and pay as you go over 30 years or whatever and use it as an investment vehicle that way. You could avoid debt and pay cash, though that seems unlikely for most people and would require a sudden source of increased income. Or you could not spent it and just be homeless. So like I said in my earlier post, as long as the debt is in control, debt can be a good thing.
Inflation isn’t caused by national debt. The alternative to debt is to raise taxes or print more money, both of these would cause inflation.
Inflation doesn’t mean I’ll make less for each T-shirt I sell either. I might have to increase the price and therefore effectively make the same amount per shirt. That is what inflation is? The same thing today costs more tomorrow.
If there is inflation and they aren’t making enough, then hopefully they will demand more or go find work elsewhere where they will be paid adaquately.
I’m surprised you wouldn’t be all for inflation, given your rich verses poor posts. Inflation hurts the rich and helps the poor! The millions of dollars those rich people have is not worth as much after inflation. Whereas, the considerable consumer debt the poor have would not be as much.
The problem with an increase in tax rates is economic instability. Just like the mortgage example above, going into debt is better than paying it all off at once where you and I would have to find more money to pay the extra taxes. We might have to get loans to do so, or find other means. Why not increase the debt instead for the temporary increase in spending and allow willing investers pay for it. The US government is in a much better situation to get invester’s money to cover it (because they could print more, could increase taxes, etc.).
The national debt is a pretty useless figure by itself. Yeah, it is a huge number, bigger than any one of us can comprehend and it’s increasing. So what? What’s the other side of the balance sheet look like? The US government has a lot of assets.
Without looking at the other side of the balance sheet and other financial statements, the debt or increase in debt is meaningless.
When spending, it’s not bad to go into debt to do so. If the spending will result in a higher return, then it’s a good idea to go into debt to do it verses the alternatives that cause economic instability.
So Anso’s right (see RSU thread - one of the hopping ones). But not only is this not soley and american forum, it actually belongs to France.
PML.
Cathy
I never said anyhing about inflation. all I know is that 8 years ago 1.30 Euro =$1, and today $1=.80 Euro, so my imports cost–even my blank foreign made tee shirts. The dollar is worth less now. Why?
And I cannot believe inflation HELPS poor people. It makes what little they have and earn worth less, so it’s harder to get out of debt. But you don’t mind being in debt…
You go, John!
Billy
Billy