My excellent talk with John D. (UDC)

Terry, thanks for your kind words. Thanks also for taking the time to call.

Amy and I sincerely feel that it’s a privilege to serve this community of fellow unicyclists. After reading the comments on this forum regarding one of our products, we felt the need to set the record straight. We’ve made an effort today to reach other folks who posted comments of concern here, so that we can resolve any issues. Our goal is to exceed our customers’ expectations with quality products and superior service. Naturally, some of our past errors have made us wince, but we always try to ensure that the buyer is happy with the resolution.

We developed the Airfoil rim about 5 years ago because many of us riders wanted a stronger wheel for our Coker unicycles. Sidewalks surround our community in suburban Atlanta. On my daily ride I would routinely hit curbs head-on, which sometimes caused the standard steel rim to go out of true. That caused the brake pad to rub on one side. I would true the tire on the spot, but it was an ongoing problem.

Though our first Airfoil rim solved that problem and became a huge hit, we received many complaints that it was too big. We installed one on Lars Clausen’s Coker unicycle when he rode through Georgia during his ride-across-America trip (some 6,000 miles). At some point the tube blew out and he had a difficult time getting the tire back on. That’s not the kind of problem we want during a distance ride.

The second batch was just a bit smaller. So was the third batch. We received a sample rim before the third batch was produced. We tested it on a Wheel TA tire for several days before we approved it. At that time, we had sold out of Coker tires and the Coker warehouse ran out. It was out of stock for months. The first batch of Coker tires to arrive after that was a bit too large for the Airfoil rim. Once we discovered this, we posted the information on the product listing in our online catalog. There was no reason to hide this information.

Many of you no doubt remember the long period when Coker ran out of unicycles, tires and tubes. We had to find an alternate source for 36-inch tires, and the Wheel TA is proving to be a very good tire. But the specialty 36 x 2.125 tubes we found were very disappointing. They became the standard on all 36-inch models, and soon after we began shipping them, we began receiving notices—by phone and email—that there was a problem. We estimate that about 20 of those tubes either lost the valve stem or erupted through weak sidewall rubber. We were fortunate that Coker did finally receive a shipment of tubes, and we began sending them to our customers who had received the defective tube. Since then, the number of incidents fell off dramatically.

It appears that some have associated the tube failure with the Airfoil rim. We’ve sold about 60 rims from this latest batch, and we’ve received mostly positive feedback. Terry notified us of this thread on Monday; Amy and I were up late that night reading all the comments. If there is a problem beyond the defective tubes, we’re not aware of it. We’ve not had to replace any Airfoil rims from this batch. If we ship one and it fails, we will replace it. If any of you are having a problem, we urge you to contact us. Though there’s a specified warranty on most of our products, most of our customers know that we are very flexible when it comes to resolving issues.

I ride about 5 miles per day on a Nimbus 36-inch Deluxe model, with the latest Airfoil rim, that Amy gave me for Christmas. The Wheel TA tire is rated to 32 psi, but I’ve been riding mine at 25 psi. I confirmed that with a tire gauge. I inflated it to 40 on Tuesday morning, and it’s holding.

When we install the Wheel TA tire on an Airfoil rim, we make sure the bead is properly seated. Sometimes, after we inflate the tube, we see that the bead is higher on one side that the other. We deflate the tube, reseat the bead, and inflate again. Anyone who has worked in a bike shop knows this process. A blowout isn’t exactly a pleasant experience.

We are continuously developing new products, and we agree with those on this forum who suggest maintaining standards. We have made that commitment; our product line will adhere to standards set by the International Organization of Standards (ISO).

We are grateful for your continued support. Please continue to send your constructive comments to us at helpdesk@unicycle.com. We read, and respond to, every one. If you’re not satisfied with our response, please call Amy or me at 1-800-Unicycle (1-800-864-2925).

My rim is an “X” airfoil, but the spoke hole to spoke hole measured straight across is 6.5cm…between any of the 36 holes.

The first time the tire blew off it killed the tube, but not at the stem…odd also I do find the tube item to be a bit odd as we put a new tube on my cycle and 8 miles later it blew off again (didnt kill the tube that time unlike the first…but the second tube was an older coker brand tube). The second time it blew off we glued the tire with tubular tire adhesive and its stuck ever since. Oh well, We’ll see what happens. John sent me a PM to call him and I’ll do that tomorrow to see what the word is from him.

this thread title reminds me of that movie, bill and ted’s excellent adventure.

John,

Thank you for producing the Airfoil rim. I had experience with the first and second batches, and enjoyed seeing the improvement in the rim, and enjoyed building many quality wheels using them.

The only way this debacle will end, which is not serving customers, or manufacturers, or the sport, is the typical thing – the tire and rim manufacturers have to get together and AGREE on a BSD (and whatever else you decide is necessary). Then you all have to specify that to your suppliers and test for it on a stringent basis using measuring equipment other than the latest tire and tube, rejecting all products that do not conform. You may have to develop your own BSD measurement device to do this, perhaps in coordination with the other players, so that you have something to work with.

Then it will be obvious whether a fault is with tire or rim.

Look at all the other rim manufacturer’s products and you will see published BSDs, in print, for downstream consumers to make use of. It’s essential.

You should also be publishing the ERD as a tested, reliable value for wheel builders/designers of all types. Although this is not quite as necessary as BSD, the non-availability of longer spokes makes it a very close second to BSD in terms of necessity.

Please see some of Sun’s published rim information for an example.

My two cents.

Is there any way to identify the potentially faulty tubes? I have three 36" tubes in my collection of spares (always good to have spares for parts that have gone out of stock before). One or two of them may have been purchased during the period of unexplained 36" Tyre blowouts.

Is it possible to identify if I may have a faulty tube? Any special markings on the tube? Is there a visible issue with the stem? If I pump it up really big, outside of the tire, will there be obvious hernias where the rubber is thinner?

I have one of the original Airfoil rims (bought it at the 2002 UNICON).

I could recommend another disclaimer for the “x” rim. If these tubes are the cause of bead failure, I would highly recommend against using them tubeless. A harder mounting tire can easily be solved with tire levers.

ugh…hate to beat a dead horse…but one last question…

when will we be able to put coker tires on x airfoils?

Sounds as though the diameters of the next batch of rims, as well as the next batch of tires, is still up in the air…they might fit together, might not!

I had no idea they had messed with the tire sizes as well.

All of this underscores the need for tire/rim STANDARDS, just as with smaller wheels, so that future generations will not have to re-invent THE 36" WHEEL!

Amen to that! And what Dave Stockton said. It’s quite a bad problem for the high-end segment of the market. We absolutely require the ability to mix and match parts like tires and rims and tubes - just as we do with our high-end bikes. UDC is an a position of power here being the world’s largest unicycle supply company (that is true, isn’t it?) While most of their business is not in high-end unicycles, they can and should set the standards. Everyone will benefit. People will buy low-end starter unicycles from UDC and be able to upgrade them later. The small but vocal and visible high-end market segment will stay with UDC.

Unicycling has been and still is growing. The revolution started in the 90s that UDC helped fuel is continuing. Look at high-profile events like Ride the Lobster.

Another example in unicycling: the ISIS standard. KH Unicycles and Koxx One both supply ISIS equipment but if what I read on these forums is true, the parts are not interchangeable. If each manufacturer would just correctly implement to the published standard, we wouldn’t have these problems that slow down development.

We need precise published standards for 36 inch tire and rims.

—Nathan

Well it’s official: I finally placed my order with Amy at UDC today, and here’s what I’m getting:

360 radial frame. (Basically the same as Coker but with a larger diameter 25.4 seat post, the same as the nimbus 36 size.)

Airfoil rim
Wide hub
Pro wheel 127mm aluminum cranks
Stainless 14g spokes.
Kris Holm fusion freeride saddle (blue)
Kris Holm 25.4 (rail type) seat post (I will use my extra exsisting rail adapter)
TA Road tire
Coker tube

I decided to get the UDC frame vs the nimbus because I am more than satisfied with the standard frame, having ridden the nimbus as well.

My total cost, including $65 shipping is: $536.33.
The exact same setup but with the nimbus frame would be: $693. So the added cost for the nimbus frame would be an additional $157! So I’m happy with my decision! In the near future, I may also be buying the new Coker version as well!:slight_smile: :sunglasses: :D:p

PS: I plan to have my new 36-er frame powder coated blue…not sure yet what shae, but I’m leaning toward “baby” blue! :slight_smile:

Nooo!!! Not blue!! Anything but blue!!

It won’t be “KH” blue. My other thought was yellow. I like blue though. Kind fits since i’ll be riding it almost exclusively at the beach! :sunglasses:

Thank you too. You probably know our British partner, Roger Davies. He’s a tremendous asset to our team, and he’s also an industrial designer by trade. During recent conference call he suggested ISO standards on all future products. We’re all for it. We’re also planning a spec chart for every cycle, and it will be added to the product spec section in our online catalog.

Thanks for stepping up on this one, as well as for the phone message you left to inquire about my concerns with the N36 I purchased for my son.

With your comment above…if it’s in the spirit of Nathan’s post about market leadership…you’ve addressed my concern. I never reported having a tire failure with the TA coming off the rim. My entire gripe was about the most recent batch of Airfoils, and the fact that you could only run the TA tire. It sounds like the true “root cause” may have shifted some, but the story as I understood it from Amy at the time I purchased was that the issue was with the new batch of Airfoils, and since they worked on the TA you didn’t want to send them back out of fear there would be no further batches made. That was the bee in my bonnet, as my view is with your market power and market leadership comes the responsibility to insist on standards and that component suppliers “meet spec” or the stuff gets rejected. Sounds like you’re moving that way, although unfortunately not in time for Miles, who is now limited to the TA for his lifetime choice of tire, since he has one of the “X” rims (although not sure his is marked as such, since I believe the issue was discovered just prior to me purchasing…you didn’t yet have the disclosure on your web site either).

Thanks,

Tom

That’s a really nice set-up you’re getting there. For the beach, you want a nice pastel color…like light-blue, pasty yellow, or pink.

Are you kidding me? Terry is way too jacked and manly to be sporting pastel colors.

Maybe he’s comfortable with his sexuality lol.

Reading back over my post…I sounded really fruity.

While reading this I could hear the voice of the gingerbread man from Shrek.
“Noooo. Not my gumdrop buttons!” :slight_smile:

I think Terry can get away with any color under the sun. Even pastels. :astonished:

It’s not the uni that makes the man, it’s the man that makes the uni.

Or woman. :wink: