My Coker ride two week ago

I’ve never seen any full fingered hand / wrist protection so I wear some
Specialized DH gloves under my Harbinger wrist guards. They came with some
good padding on the knukles and extra rubber bits stitched on top. Said
rubber bits had to go so they’d fit inside my wrist guards.

Originally I only used one for the hand I use for holding the seat for
jumps as I was developing some real big calluses where the edge of the
carbon seat base would rub. The glove put an end to that. With
temperatures now dropping through the floor I’m wearing both gloves… and
enjoying still have feeling in my fingers when I ride :slight_smile:

Cheers, Neil

----- Original Message ----- From: <c_r_grove@yahoo.com> To:
<rec.sport.unicycling@kildrummy.co.uk>; <rsu@unicycling.org> Sent:
Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:06 AM Subject: Re: My Coker ride two week
ago

> John Childs wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >>
> >> For gloves I wear full finger MTB gloves.
>
>
> Are there full-fingered gloves that have good wrist support. I have
> wrist guards but they are half-fingered. They have a brace in the back
> of the wrist that keeps your hand from bending way back when you hit the
> pavement. The problem is that your fingers then grind into the ashfault.
>
> No fun.
>
> So… I’m looking for something full-fingered that also has wrist
> support.
>
> Christopher
> –
> “Be Bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.” -Basil King (Anyone
> who can give me more info on THIS Basil King please email
> me.)
>
> My short story at:
>
http://www.rosedog.com/manuscript.asp?m=9389256&manuscript=6862016&t=The±
Det ermination+of+Jeffery&fn=Christopher&ln=Grove&srdt=9%2F27%2F01+5%3A32-
%3A05+A M&fs=2&ff=Arial%2C+Helvetica%2C+Verdana&ps=4000&s=735143750&folde-
r=Search+Re sults
>
_________________________________________________________________________-
__
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

In article <mailman.1005185771.26380.rsu@unicycling.org>, Ken Fuchs
<kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote: ) )First off, we assume that all unicyclists
are smart enough [there are )plenty of counter examples, but no one will
convince them until they or )a good rider they know injure their head
while riding] to wear a )helmet whenever riding.

Just like all joggers are “smart enough” to always wear a helmet when
jogging. -Tom

In article <mailman.1005185771.26380.rsu@unicycling.org>, Ken Fuchs
<kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote: ) )First off, we assume that all unicyclists
are smart enough [there are )plenty of counter examples, but no one will
convince them until they or )a good rider they know injure their head
while riding] to wear a )helmet whenever riding.

Just like all joggers are “smart enough” to always wear a helmet when
jogging. -Tom

I’ve broken my plastic wrist guard last week on a stupid fall while riding
on the pavement, going to my trials practice. I never ever assume I won’t
wipe out even if the probability is low.

Oli-

-----Original Message----- From: Tom Holub [mailto:doosh@best.com] Sent:
Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:24 AM To: rsu@unicycling.org Subject: Re:
“Crash physics” and protection [Re: My Coker ride two week ago]

In article <9se6cd$e37$1@laurel.tc.umn.edu>, rhysling
<forum.member@unicyclist.com> wrote: ) ) )Unicycling=Jogging=no safety
concern, therefore unicycling=no )safety concern? ) )Let’s assume this is
true. Therefore: No saftey concern for head=nothing )in head to be
concerned about=no nead for a helmet. :wink: ) )Or perhaps we could persue the
skill level argument. Need for safety )equipment is inversly related to
skill level; there for, a rank of level )1 scores a 10 out of 10 on the
need for safey equipment scale. Now, )let’s practically apply this: Kris
Holm doffs helmet, hand and limb )protection, therefore Kris=level 1 skill
level. Some one tell that boy )he should not be iddling yet- he has not
yet reached the famed “Jogger )Level”. :smiley:

I think the suggestion that unicycling is inherently a dangerous activity
is inaccurate, and the suggestion that all unicyclists should always wear
helmets is asinine. Sure, there are a lot of unicyclists who do
potentially dangerous things–I’ve heard Kris Holm say that 80% of his
dismounts are unintentional. Trials, MUni, and Cokering probably are
helmet-worthy. But riding a 24" unicycle along a sidewalk or the side of a
road–how is that any more dangerous than jogging? The kinetic energy
involved is very similar, as is the likelihood of mishap.

For that matter, you’re a lot more likely to get a head injury driving
your car to work in the morning. -Tom



rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

> Unicycling=Jogging=no safety concern, therefore unicycling=no safety
> concern?

I don’t unicycle at jogging speed. And my feet aren’t on the ground while
I’m doing it. Also, didn’t we just read a bunch of crash stories in the
last few days? Ouch.

> Let’s assume this is true. Therefore: No safety concern for head=nothing
> in head to be concerned about=no nead for a helmet.

I see that theory being put to practice all the time :slight_smile:

> Or perhaps we could persue the skill level argument. Need for safety
> equipment is inversly related to skill level;

No. I will contend that frequency of use of safety equipment (impacts) is
inversely related to skill level, assuming riders are doing the same
activity. But as one’s skill level goes up, one tends to try harder and
harder things.

Kris Holm, for example. Can you imagine him doing what he does without
pads? Not any more. He’s a great role model.

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

> Unicycling=Jogging=no safety concern, therefore unicycling=no safety
> concern?

I don’t unicycle at jogging speed. And my feet aren’t on the ground while
I’m doing it. Also, didn’t we just read a bunch of crash stories in the
last few days? Ouch.

> Let’s assume this is true. Therefore: No safety concern for head=nothing
> in head to be concerned about=no nead for a helmet.

I see that theory being put to practice all the time :slight_smile:

> Or perhaps we could persue the skill level argument. Need for safety
> equipment is inversly related to skill level;

No. I will contend that frequency of use of safety equipment (impacts) is
inversely related to skill level, assuming riders are doing the same
activity. But as one’s skill level goes up, one tends to try harder and
harder things.

Kris Holm, for example. Can you imagine him doing what he does without
pads? Not any more. He’s a great role model.

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

> I think the suggestion that unicycling is inherently a dangerous
> activity is inaccurate, and the suggestion that all unicyclists should
> always wear helmets is asinine.

Though I would not say wearing a helmet is asinine, I will agree that
unicycling carries no big level of danger. It’s probably more dangerous
than walking, but I will contend that it’s safer than the dreaded bathtub.

> Trials, MUni, and Cokering probably are helmet-worthy. But riding a 24"
> unicycle along a sidewalk or the side of a road–how is that any more
> dangerous than jogging?

Only a little, not enough to demand a helmet. When riding with cars, I
would continue to recommend the helmet. It’s not going to hurt you, and it
presents a better image for unicycling. But yes, riding down the sidewalk,
or even practicing tricks, the need for a helmet is far less than riding
on rocks or at high speed.

For me, when I ride the MUni the helmet is always on. But when I do
tricks, which is usually indoors, I don’t wear one. And the main reason I
wear one on the track at conventions is a) to keep the sun off my
baldness, and b) to set a good example for the kiddies.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

> I think the suggestion that unicycling is inherently a dangerous
> activity is inaccurate, and the suggestion that all unicyclists should
> always wear helmets is asinine.

Though I would not say wearing a helmet is asinine, I will agree that
unicycling carries no big level of danger. It’s probably more dangerous
than walking, but I will contend that it’s safer than the dreaded bathtub.

> Trials, MUni, and Cokering probably are helmet-worthy. But riding a 24"
> unicycle along a sidewalk or the side of a road–how is that any more
> dangerous than jogging?

Only a little, not enough to demand a helmet. When riding with cars, I
would continue to recommend the helmet. It’s not going to hurt you, and it
presents a better image for unicycling. But yes, riding down the sidewalk,
or even practicing tricks, the need for a helmet is far less than riding
on rocks or at high speed.

For me, when I ride the MUni the helmet is always on. But when I do
tricks, which is usually indoors, I don’t wear one. And the main reason I
wear one on the track at conventions is a) to keep the sun off my
baldness, and b) to set a good example for the kiddies.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“Our time is a most precious commodity, but it’s how we spend it that
makes us rich.” - John Foss

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)First off, we assume that all unicyclists are smart enough [there are
>)plenty of counter examples, but no one will convince them until they or
>)a good rider they know injure their head while riding] to wear a )helmet
>whenever riding.

Sorry, I intended this first paragraph of my article to be a qualifier
that I wasn’t considering head injuries, because any (careful) unicyclist
would wear a helmet whenever they ride. My article considered other types
of protective equipment and I wanted to make the point that the wearing of
a helmet is highly recommended.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>Just like all joggers are “smart enough” to always wear a helmet
>when jogging.

Jogging and unicycling are very different sports, so what may be
reasonable in one sport may not be reasonable in the other.

Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
equipment. A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of unicycling
for numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, insufficient
concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. or any
combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective equipment
is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of magnitude
less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while jogging is
rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear a helmet.
However, joggers with physcial or medical conditions that affect balance
adversely, probably should wear a helmet despite how strange that might
look to others.

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)First off, we assume that all unicyclists are smart enough [there are
>)plenty of counter examples, but no one will convince them until they or
>)a good rider they know injure their head while riding] to wear a )helmet
>whenever riding.

Sorry, I intended this first paragraph of my article to be a qualifier
that I wasn’t considering head injuries, because any (careful) unicyclist
would wear a helmet whenever they ride. My article considered other types
of protective equipment and I wanted to make the point that the wearing of
a helmet is highly recommended.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>Just like all joggers are “smart enough” to always wear a helmet
>when jogging.

Jogging and unicycling are very different sports, so what may be
reasonable in one sport may not be reasonable in the other.

Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
equipment. A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of unicycling
for numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, insufficient
concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. or any
combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective equipment
is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of magnitude
less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while jogging is
rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear a helmet.
However, joggers with physcial or medical conditions that affect balance
adversely, probably should wear a helmet despite how strange that might
look to others.

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)First off, we assume that all unicyclists are smart enough [there are
>)plenty of counter examples, but no one will convince them until they or
>)a good rider they know injure their head while riding] to wear a )helmet
>whenever riding.

Sorry, I intended this first paragraph of my article to be a qualifier
that I wasn’t considering head injuries, because any (careful) unicyclist
would wear a helmet whenever they ride. My article considered other types
of protective equipment and I wanted to make the point that the wearing of
a helmet is highly recommended.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>Just like all joggers are “smart enough” to always wear a helmet
>when jogging.

Jogging and unicycling are very different sports, so what may be
reasonable in one sport may not be reasonable in the other.

Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
equipment. A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of unicycling
for numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, insufficient
concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. or any
combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective equipment
is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of magnitude
less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while jogging is
rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear a helmet.
However, joggers with physcial or medical conditions that affect balance
adversely, probably should wear a helmet despite how strange that might
look to others.

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

In article <mailman.1005279074.5233.rsu@unicycling.org>, Ken Fuchs
<kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote: ) )Any unicycling close to the limits of a
rider’s ability may result in a )fall, thus such a rider should wear a
helmet and other protective )equipment.

I agree.

) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well. ) )The
risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of )magnitude
less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while )jogging is
rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear a )helmet.

Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
head either.

I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic. -Tom

In article <mailman.1005279074.5233.rsu@unicycling.org>, Ken Fuchs
<kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote: ) )Any unicycling close to the limits of a
rider’s ability may result in a )fall, thus such a rider should wear a
helmet and other protective )equipment.

I agree.

) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well. ) )The
risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of )magnitude
less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while )jogging is
rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear a )helmet.

Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
head either.

I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic. -Tom

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
>)fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
>)equipment.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>I agree.

>) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
>numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
>concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
>combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
>)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

>)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
>)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while
>)jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear
>a )helmet.

>Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
>experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
>almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
>the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
>learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
>none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
>while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
>head either.

The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of relative
experience.

Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the past
year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? :slight_smile: Seriously, does Tom’s
fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in the future
(several decades) while “unicycling in unchallenging conditions”? Chances
are good that he will have a bad fall “in unchallenging conditions”
sometime in his lifetime (no matter how experienced or talented he is). If
he persists in wearing protective gear only when he expects the unicycling
to be challenging, he will probably be devoid of any protective gear if he
falls under “unchallenging conditions”.

Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong moment
… A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us enough so
we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare circumstances that
instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions become extremely
challenging or simply impossible.

>I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.

Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the only
way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing protective when
a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this protective gear
100.000000% of the time that he rides.

Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
“unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)

If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we might
be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could assign
risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as percentages of
injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with protecive equipment
and without protective equipment. With such data or despite such data,
individuals of legal age and parents of minors could better decide for
themselves or their children what protective equipment is prudent to use
for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that they error on the
side of safety when determining when protective equipment is worn.)

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
>)fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
>)equipment.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>I agree.

>) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
>numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
>concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
>combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
>)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

>)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
>)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while
>)jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear
>a )helmet.

>Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
>experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
>almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
>the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
>learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
>none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
>while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
>head either.

The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of relative
experience.

Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the past
year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? :slight_smile: Seriously, does Tom’s
fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in the future
(several decades) while “unicycling in unchallenging conditions”? Chances
are good that he will have a bad fall “in unchallenging conditions”
sometime in his lifetime (no matter how experienced or talented he is). If
he persists in wearing protective gear only when he expects the unicycling
to be challenging, he will probably be devoid of any protective gear if he
falls under “unchallenging conditions”.

Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong moment
… A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us enough so
we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare circumstances that
instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions become extremely
challenging or simply impossible.

>I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.

Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the only
way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing protective when
a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this protective gear
100.000000% of the time that he rides.

Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
“unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)

If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we might
be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could assign
risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as percentages of
injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with protecive equipment
and without protective equipment. With such data or despite such data,
individuals of legal age and parents of minors could better decide for
themselves or their children what protective equipment is prudent to use
for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that they error on the
side of safety when determining when protective equipment is worn.)

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
>)fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
>)equipment.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>I agree.

>) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
>numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
>concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
>combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
>)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

>)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
>)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while
>)jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear
>a )helmet.

>Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
>experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
>almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
>the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
>learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
>none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
>while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
>head either.

The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of relative
experience.

Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the past
year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? :slight_smile: Seriously, does Tom’s
fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in the future
(several decades) while “unicycling in unchallenging conditions”? Chances
are good that he will have a bad fall “in unchallenging conditions”
sometime in his lifetime (no matter how experienced or talented he is). If
he persists in wearing protective gear only when he expects the unicycling
to be challenging, he will probably be devoid of any protective gear if he
falls under “unchallenging conditions”.

Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong moment
… A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us enough so
we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare circumstances that
instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions become extremely
challenging or simply impossible.

>I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.

Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the only
way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing protective when
a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this protective gear
100.000000% of the time that he rides.

Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
“unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)

If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we might
be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could assign
risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as percentages of
injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with protecive equipment
and without protective equipment. With such data or despite such data,
individuals of legal age and parents of minors could better decide for
themselves or their children what protective equipment is prudent to use
for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that they error on the
side of safety when determining when protective equipment is worn.)

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

>Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:

>)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in a
>)fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
>)equipment.

doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:

>I agree.

>) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
>numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
>concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
>combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
>)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.

>)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
>)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling while
>)jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger to wear
>a )helmet.

>Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
>experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
>almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
>the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
>learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
>none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
>while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
>head either.

The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of relative
experience.

Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the past
year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? :slight_smile: Seriously, does Tom’s
fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in the future
(several decades) while “unicycling in unchallenging conditions”? Chances
are good that he will have a bad fall “in unchallenging conditions”
sometime in his lifetime (no matter how experienced or talented he is). If
he persists in wearing protective gear only when he expects the unicycling
to be challenging, he will probably be devoid of any protective gear if he
falls under “unchallenging conditions”.

Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong moment
… A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us enough so
we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare circumstances that
instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions become extremely
challenging or simply impossible.

>I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.

Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the only
way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing protective when
a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this protective gear
100.000000% of the time that he rides.

Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
“unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)

If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we might
be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could assign
risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as percentages of
injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with protecive equipment
and without protective equipment. With such data or despite such data,
individuals of legal age and parents of minors could better decide for
themselves or their children what protective equipment is prudent to use
for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that they error on the
side of safety when determining when protective equipment is worn.)

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com

I whole heartedly agree with Ken. I have never had an air bag go off in my
car and never had a seat belt draw up tight on me from an accident. But I
buckle up everytime I get in the car, even to turn around in my driveway,
which I can do without getting into the street. For that one time I need
it I want it on.

Lowell

----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> To:
<rsu@unicycling.org> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 7:53 PM Subject:
Re: “Crash physics” and protection [Re: My Coker ride two week ago]

> >Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:
>
> >)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in
> >a )fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
> >)equipment.
>
> doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:
>
> >I agree.
>
> >) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
> >numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
> >concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
> >combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
> >)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.
>
> >)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
> >)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling
> >while )jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger
> >to wear a )helmet.
>
> >Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
> >experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
> >almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
> >the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
> >learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
> >none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
> >while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
> >head either.
>
> The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
> when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
> the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of
> relative experience.
>
> Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the
> past year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? Seriously,
> does Tom’s fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in
> the future (several decades) while "unicycling in unchallenging
> conditions"? Chances are good that he will have a bad fall "in
> unchallenging conditions" sometime in his lifetime (no matter how
> experienced or talented he is). If he persists in wearing protective
> gear only when he expects the unicycling to be challenging, he will
> probably be devoid of any protective gear if he falls under
> “unchallenging conditions”.
>
> Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
> riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong
> moment … A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us
> enough so we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare
> circumstances that instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions
> become extremely challenging or simply impossible.
>
> >I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.
>
> Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
> unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the
> only way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing
> protective when a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this
> protective gear
> 100.000000% of the time that he rides.
>
> Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
> occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
> and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
> “unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
> significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
> sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
> may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
> lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)
>
> If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we
> might be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could
> assign risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as
> percentages of injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with
> protecive equipment and without protective equipment. With such data or
> despite such data, individuals of legal age and parents of minors could
> better decide for themselves or their children what protective equipment
> is prudent to use for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that
> they error on the side of safety when determining when protective
> equipment is worn.)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com>
> ___________________________________________________________________-
> ________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

I whole heartedly agree with Ken. I have never had an air bag go off in my
car and never had a seat belt draw up tight on me from an accident. But I
buckle up everytime I get in the car, even to turn around in my driveway,
which I can do without getting into the street. For that one time I need
it I want it on.

Lowell

----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> To:
<rsu@unicycling.org> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 7:53 PM Subject:
Re: “Crash physics” and protection [Re: My Coker ride two week ago]

> >Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:
>
> >)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in
> >a )fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
> >)equipment.
>
> doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:
>
> >I agree.
>
> >) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
> >numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
> >concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
> >combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
> >)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.
>
> >)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
> >)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling
> >while )jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger
> >to wear a )helmet.
>
> >Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
> >experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
> >almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
> >the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
> >learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
> >none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
> >while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
> >head either.
>
> The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
> when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
> the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of
> relative experience.
>
> Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the
> past year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? Seriously,
> does Tom’s fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in
> the future (several decades) while "unicycling in unchallenging
> conditions"? Chances are good that he will have a bad fall "in
> unchallenging conditions" sometime in his lifetime (no matter how
> experienced or talented he is). If he persists in wearing protective
> gear only when he expects the unicycling to be challenging, he will
> probably be devoid of any protective gear if he falls under
> “unchallenging conditions”.
>
> Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
> riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong
> moment … A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us
> enough so we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare
> circumstances that instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions
> become extremely challenging or simply impossible.
>
> >I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.
>
> Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
> unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the
> only way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing
> protective when a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this
> protective gear
> 100.000000% of the time that he rides.
>
> Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
> occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
> and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
> “unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
> significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
> sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
> may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
> lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)
>
> If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we
> might be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could
> assign risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as
> percentages of injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with
> protecive equipment and without protective equipment. With such data or
> despite such data, individuals of legal age and parents of minors could
> better decide for themselves or their children what protective equipment
> is prudent to use for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that
> they error on the side of safety when determining when protective
> equipment is worn.)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com>
> ___________________________________________________________________-
> ________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

I whole heartedly agree with Ken. I have never had an air bag go off in my
car and never had a seat belt draw up tight on me from an accident. But I
buckle up everytime I get in the car, even to turn around in my driveway,
which I can do without getting into the street. For that one time I need
it I want it on.

Lowell

----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> To:
<rsu@unicycling.org> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 7:53 PM Subject:
Re: “Crash physics” and protection [Re: My Coker ride two week ago]

> >Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com> wrote:
>
> >)Any unicycling close to the limits of a rider’s ability may result in
> >a )fall, thus such a rider should wear a helmet and other protective
> >)equipment.
>
> doosh@best.com (Tom Holub) wrote:
>
> >I agree.
>
> >) A fall can also occur in all other (safer) types of )unicycling for
> >numerous reasons (bump, dip or pothole in the road, )insufficient
> >concentration, a distraction, foot slipping off pedal, etc. )or any
> >combination of these), so a helmet and possibly other protective
> >)equipment is still recommended for less risky unicycling as well.
>
> >)The risk of falling while jogging is probably several orders of
> >)magnitude less than the risk of falling while unicycling. Falling
> >while )jogging is rare, so there is no compelling reason for a jogger
> >to wear a )helmet.
>
> >Falling while unicycling in unchallenging conditions, for reasonably
> >experienced unicyclists, is about rare as falling while jogging. I ride
> >almost every day, and I can’t recall a fall during normal riding within
> >the past year. I fell a few times in the first couple of months after I
> >learned, and I still fall occasionally working on new skills. Though
> >none of my falls have endangered my head at all. I had several falls
> >while running cross-country in high school. None of those endangered my
> >head either.
>
> The experiences of a single unicyclist over the course of a single year
> when “unicycling in unchallenging conditions” can’t seriously be used as
> the basis for risk assessment for all unicyclists, regardless of
> relative experience.
>
> Tom has been very lucky so far. He doesn’t recall a fall within the
> past year? (: Perhaps, he forgot the fall on his head? Seriously,
> does Tom’s fall free “normal riding” ensure that he will never fall in
> the future (several decades) while "unicycling in unchallenging
> conditions"? Chances are good that he will have a bad fall "in
> unchallenging conditions" sometime in his lifetime (no matter how
> experienced or talented he is). If he persists in wearing protective
> gear only when he expects the unicycling to be challenging, he will
> probably be devoid of any protective gear if he falls under
> “unchallenging conditions”.
>
> Consider the possibility that we are not always in total control of our
> riding. A fast moving baseball crossing our path at just the wrong
> moment … A car behind us that doesn’t directly hit us, but clips us
> enough so we lose control … There are many rare and not so rare
> circumstances that instantly make unicycling in unchallenging conditions
> become extremely challenging or simply impossible.
>
> >I’m all for safety, but let’s be realistic.
>
> Realistically, you can never predict with 100.000000% accuracy when any
> unicyclist, regardless of experience and talent, will fall. Thus, the
> only way to be 100.000000% certain that a unicyclist is wearing
> protective when a fall occurs is for this unicyclist to wear this
> protective gear
> 100.000000% of the time that he rides.
>
> Statistics come into play here in unicycling falls as in all things that
> occur in life. Not every unicyclist in every classificaion of experience
> and talent (.i.e. skill level) will have a fall in his lifetime under
> “unchallenging conditions” (for unicyclists of that skill level), but a
> significant percentage will, and of those a (very) small number may
> sustain a serious injury or worse. (From what we have heard from Tom, he
> may very well be “unchallenging unicycling” injury free throughout his
> lifetime, but others of equal skill may not be so lucky.)
>
> If we had accurate data on the circumstances of unicycling falls, we
> might be able to say more on this topic with greater certainty. We could
> assign risk probabilities to the various types of unicycling as
> percentages of injurious falls and the severity of such injuries with
> protecive equipment and without protective equipment. With such data or
> despite such data, individuals of legal age and parents of minors could
> better decide for themselves or their children what protective equipment
> is prudent to use for each type of unicycling. (One can only hope that
> they error on the side of safety when determining when protective
> equipment is worn.)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com>
> ___________________________________________________________________-
> ________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu