John: Re voting records, there is so much to say, you can jump in anywhere with just a little information. Look at Bush’s record and see if you would have voted that way. I wouldn’t.
Bush has cut Veterans benefits (including the amount of money the family gets when a soldier is killed in action), as well as money for police to protect our streets. Of course, he let the ban on assault weapons expire, so we can expect more wild gun fights and innocent by standers getting killed in drive-by shootings. Looks like gun companies would be a good investment right now. And if you’re looking for a job with good benefits, don’t join the military.
i suspect we march to the beat of the same (syncopated) drummer…
to me the best part of the three very political threads running at the moment is still the fact that we hold rather vehemently opposing views and we all hold ours rather passionately and despite going thru the best part of 10 pages, there’s been no (or at least very little or very urbane) namecalling
Amen to that. Our discussion of religion and of feminist views were similar. Every once in a while someone would blow their top, but we’ve done a pretty good job of attacking other people’s views without attacking people specifically. I’m much more willing to debate on topics such as this when I feel like people will at least listen to what I have to say, even if they completely disagree with me.
Washington doesn’t make it so easy to be able to jump in with just a little information and know what’s really going on. You’ve actually got to dig a little bit deeper than just a one line talking point.
Not true. In the language of Washington D.C. a cut can actually mean an increase in funding. A cut just means that the increase wasn’t as big as they wanted. It’s language games like that, that makes it so difficult to figure out what’s really going on based on a voting record or spin from the people on the other side of the aisle.
If you asked your boss for a $5 raise and he only gave you a $2 raise, did your pay just get cut $3 or did you get an increase of $2? In the language of Washington you just suffered a devastating $3 cut in pay.
Yup, FactCheck.org looks like a good site for checking out the political spin. I took a little browse through their archive of articles and was impressed.
I found the site just by doing a Google search for “bush veterans benefits cut”. The FactCheck.org article came up on the first page. I knew the claim that Bush cut the veterans benefits was bogus, but needed to find an article that backed up my claim.
What’s amazing about the Google search is how much more volume of disinformation there is claiming that Bush cut benefits compared to the number of hits that actually explain the situation. The real information that counters the spin gets drowned out by the disinformation.
Sadly, I do not have the pleasure of knowing Ann, however, mentioned below.
Look how this thread has come around back to the original subject.
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
Librarians join Michael Moore’s wrangle with HarperCollins
148 words
18 January 2002
M2 Best Books
English
(c) Copyright 2002 M2 Communications, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
Michael Moore’s forthcoming book will be published in its original form after publisher HarperCollins reportedly backed down from a request for changes.
Moore credits a group of librarians for helping to end the wrangle with HarperCollins over the amendments the publisher wanted to make. According to Moore, the librarians sent e-mails to HarperCollins after hearing that the writer had apparently been asked to change parts of the book, including an “offensive” open letter to US President George W Bush.
Librarian Ann Sparanese says that she and other librarians found it more offensive that HarperCollins would try to censor the book “because of the current war-inspired, antidissent atmosphere.”
‘Stupid White Men… and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!’ will be published in February.
HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT YOUR HERO MICHAEL MOORE NOW?
Strange silence from the Bush haters lately. Their hero Michael Moore has been caught in yet another lie. You’ve heard about this one, haven’t you? Some reader sent a letter to the editor of The Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington, IL. That letter was printed with a small headline above it highlighting the letter-writers opinion that “Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election.” Well, Michael Moore wanted to use this “headline” in his movie. So, he took the “Gore wins recount” header off that one letter in the letters-to-the-editor section and pastes it onto the front page of the newspaper as a banner headline. The “Gore wins recount” line magically goes from a letter-writer’s opinion to the newspapers front page headline. In other words — Moore lied. He created a deliberate, intentional lie and presented it to his viewers as the truth. Perhaps he felt that altering the content of an oddly-named newspaper in a smaller town would go unnoticed. It didn’t. This isn’t new stuff for Moore. He did it with “Bowling for Columbine” also. But none of this matters to the left. Moore doesn’t like George Bush. Moore bashes America, both at home and abroad. By default that makes Moore a hero. Truth doesn’t matter when you’re fighting for the socialist, big-government, pro-appeasement cause.
I watched Moore’s movies in college. It wasn’t in my economic geography classes, it wasn’t in a film class I took. I saw 3 of Moore’s “documentaries” in a Propaganda class I took as part of my Sociology minor.
Educate yourself…Michael Moore miseducates the “stupidest country on the planet” as he calls us, and sadly enough a large percentage of the population (I read somewhere about 22%) think that Moore is actually feeding us the gospel.
Let’s set aside the fact that the Democrats have won the popular vote for president 12 years running.
I’d say I don’t like lying any more than you do. I hope I’m not being deliberately misled by Moore, (who I referred to as the best Republican documentary film maker).
But I never see you taking a stand when Bush lies. Does the lie bother you? Or will you tolerate any dirty tactics just so that your side wins?
I don’t truely have a side as I have mentioned before. I am voting for Bush in this election, because I think of the canadates he is the best choice. I am happy with the way he handled the country following 9/11. I know many who think we can talk things over with extremists feel differently, and thats fine. I just don’t agree.
And like Zod said, What lie? If I see that Bush is trying to decieve me, I will take a stand. I don’t agree with everything he has done, I just think he is a good man who cares about this country. Again, I know that there are those that disagree, because this is a matter of opinion, and core values.
If you are of the mindset that no war is a good war, Bush is not your guy. If you think the producers in this country should support the non producers, Bush is not your guy. If you think I should work hard enough to support my family, and someone elses, Bush is not your guy. If you are a fan of redistribution of wealth, then Bush is not your guy. If you think the worst thing that could happen in America is a ban on partial birth abortions, Bush is not your guy.
If you want someone who will tell you what they believe, what they will do, and then follow through, Bush is your guy.
I can only guess that you believe Bush lied about the weapons of Mass Destruction. Let me give you an analogy that I think fits pretty well.
I tell a guy that works for me that his wife is standing behind him. He waits a few hours to turn around and look. When he does his wife is no longer there. Does that make me a liar?
If there is some other lie that you are referring to, let me know. It definitely bothers me when Michael Moore gets held up as this great paragon of virtue, and his “Documentary” which should be factual, is really nothing more than blatant lies.
Easy to do when the majority of those voting don’t pay taxes, and fear for their lives the Republicans are going to make them pay rather than get un(earned income credits). That is why we are a Representative Republic and not a Democracy.
bugman, I don’t drink…but if I did, I’d buy you a beer. Let’s make it a sweet tea I suppose.
It always amuses me when people get all mad when the “rich” get a tax break. Over 40% of my income was going to taxes, is that fair? Should I pay more because I make more money than other Americans? Should I be punished for WORKING HARD and being successful? Should I have to work 4.8 months out of the year to pay taxes when other people don’t even have to pay taxes?
Then to top it off, my wife who was a school teacher and makes a quarter of what I do is taxed about 21% of her income, but them they take another 20% of her income from her at tax time b/c she’s married to me…is that fair?
Why is it more my responsibility to feed the system than the dude making minimum wage at McDonalds?
If I am going to be taxed 40% then tax him 40% too. See if he’d like to work 4.8 months out of the year to pay taxes.
Even worse, my father who owns his own business and makes a lot more than I do is taxed well over 50% of his income and then has to pay his own SS twice and pay 100% of his own health care.
Bush has my vote because he is looking out for my best intrest, not because I’m “rich” because I’m not…but because the middle class and the upper middle class is paying for 95% of the System by being over taxed.
My hope is that all this grumbling we’re hearing lately of creating a National Sales Tax and disbanding the Federal Income Tax is really in the works. Let EVERYBODY start paying to keep our Country afloat and let them start doing so EQUALLY. The beauty of a National Sales Tax is that everybody will pay taxes, even thoughs who work for cash under the table…not to mention illegal immigrants, drug dealers, etc. etc.
