Loose Cranks

Hi everyone,

I’ve only been learning to ride a uni for about 2 weeks as my wife kindly
bought me a new unicycle for my birthday. In the short time I’ve actually
spent trying to ride the thing I have now managed to get across the length
of the patio (then fall off!).

Anyway last night I noticed that one of the cranks had worked its way loose.
It wasn’t a problem as I tightened it up and carried on. However is this a
common occurence with unicycling? When I stopped to think about it, I
figured that since you pedal in both directions then one way must be with
the thread and so in theory could un-do the crank. Could this just be a case
of the crank wasn’t tight enough in the first place ot could it be to do
with the way I am learning/getting on the uni?

Jay.

Re: Loose Cranks

Pedals are built so that the cranks screw on to them tighter as you pedal forwards, thats why the thread directions are different on each pedal. Shouldn’t come loose unless your doing a lot of backwards riding (pedals acting the wrong way so tend to loosen themselves.)

Most likely reason is that you’ve got the seat on backwards or the cranks are fitted on the wrong sides (especially likely if both pedals are working loose). Look at the back of the cranks and check the side markings Lor R, or at the end of the pedals which also have markings donating L or R.

If you find that the markings are right and it’s only one pedal coming loose then it’s most likely a busted pedal thread. Take the loose pedal off and check the inside of the crank threads. It’s very easy to force a cross thread on aluminium cranks and as you tighten up the pedal you strip the thread (almost everyone here has made that mistake once, especially when rushing to assemble a brand new unicycle). If this is the case then you’ll need to buy a new crank or fit a replacement thread (much easier just to buy a new one).

Hi Jason

You are right about the threads on a cotterless crank they are both right handed where as on a pedal (as Noel noted) they are opposite to stop them from from undoing. The threads on a cotterless crank ought to be opposite to prevent loosening but a better solution (and more expensive) is a splined hub and crank set. The left is the one most likely to come loose. I have had the problem of my crank coming loose while doing allot of one footed stuff so I have had to tighten it beyond what I ought to to keep it from loosening.

Gary

Re: Loose Cranks

Thanks for the replies. I checked the uni and the cranks/pedals are on the
correct side (L and R) and yes the seat is also on the correct way around.
The pedal itself is not coming loose, its the left crank arm from the hub
(only done it once so far). To mount the Uni at the moment I have the left
pedal in the 4 o’clock position and then push down whilst holding onto
something. Thus the pedal goes backwards pulling the uni underneath you. I
was wondering whether consistently mounting in this fashion plus not a fully
tightened crank might have been the cause.

“unicus” <unicus.4dssm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:unicus.4dssm@timelimit.unicyclist.com
>
> Hi Jason
>
> You are right about the threads on a cotterless crank they are both
> right handed where as on a pedal (as Noel noted) they are opposite to
> stop them from from undoing. The threads on a cotterless crank ought to
> be opposite to prevent loosening but a better solution (and more
> expensive) is a splined hub and crank set. The left is the one most
> likely to come loose. I have had the problem of my crank coming loose
> while doing allot of one footed stuff so I have had to tighten it beyond
> what I ought to to keep it from loosening.
>
> Gary
>
>
> –
> unicus - Unicycling Newbie
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> unicus’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/869
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/17988
>

Hmm, Mmmph, Mmmff, plop.

OK, now that I’ve extracted both feet from my mouth I’ll apollogise for giving an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Sorry.

As Unicus says, the axle threads for a cotterless crank set are both right hand threaded. It’s easy to damage the axle if the cranks are used when slack so you have to make sure the nuts are on pretty tight, especially on the dominant foot side. Before you do this again, take the cranks off and inspect the axle edges for damage. If you rode while the cranks were slack the edges of the pyramid may have smeared and the inside of the crank may have corresponding pits. If it the damage is bad then both the axle and the cranks will need replacing - but if you’ve only been riding for 2 weeks this is highly unlikely.

Just give the cranks nuts a good tighten with a decent crank spanner (some people recommend lightly greasing the axle to let the crank ease further up the axle).

If this doesn’t fix it, take both cranks off and rotate their position 90 degrees and try again. It could be that the axle or the cranks squares are very slightly oblong and rotating round to a different flat will fix it.

If this still doesn’t work then you could try using glue. Loctite produce a glue specifically for this problem and you can get it at (guess where folks?) Unicycle.com. Personnally I’d consider this as a last resort as I’d be concerned about getting the crank off later but there are plenty of people on this group who swear by it.

Re: Loose Cranks

Jason King wrote:

> Anyway last night I noticed that one of the cranks had worked its way
> loose. It wasn’t a problem as I tightened it up and carried on. However is
> this a common occurence with unicycling?

I too have noticed my crank getting loose after about a month of riding. I
used to ride bikes a lot and never really had this problem, so I was kinda
surprised.

Matt

There is no problem removing a crank bolt or crank arm that has been Loctited on. Standard hand tools and a crank puller will get the crank off easily.

I have found that Loctite on the taper is not necessary to keep the crank on. I used to put Loctite on the taper but now I use grease. What I do put Loctite on is the crank nut.

This is my “make sure it doesn’t come loose” crank install procedure:

  1. Put a little grease on the tapers
  2. Press the cranks on with a big C-clamp
    Don’t be over aggressive with the C-clamp because
    you can over do it if you have an aluminum crank
  3. Put red Loctite on the crank nut and threads
  4. Tighten the crank nuts

The grease on the taper lets the crank slide on fully and ensures that it is fully seated on the tapers. The Loctite keeps the crank nut from working its way loose.

I have not had any problems with loose cranks since I started installing them this way.

Grease on the tapers is controversial. Just ignore the naysayers. Their concern is that you can press the crank too far on the tapers and split the crank. Ignore them. Nothing damages a crank faster than riding with a loose crank. Making sure the cranks are fully seated on the tapers is the best thing you can do to extend the life of your cranks (especially aluminum cranks).

john_childs

RE: Loose Cranks

Let’s all get straight on the situation here. It’s a two-week old unicycle
that was bought for a birthday present. My guess is that it was purchased at
a bike shop rather than online. So we can be pretty safe in assuming it’s a
relatively inexpensive, Savage-type model, and was assembled by the
least-skilled mechanic at the shop (they get the easiest jobs).

Bike shops tend to put unicycles together backwards about roughly 50% of the
time. They don’t realize there’s a difference. The owner has confirmed that
this one was assembled right. The average bike mechanic doesn’t know how
tight unicycle cranks need to be, and may not have checked the tightness out
of the box from Asia. Like any new bike or unicycle, some things might come
lose during the “break-in” period. This is why most new bicycles come with a
free 30-day check-up.

So give both crank arms a good tightening (you probably need a 14mm socket)
and you should be fine. Check them again a week or two later. If you can’t
turn the wrench using the same force as before, they’ve stayed tight.

If you happen to have a cotterless crank removal tool, you could take off
the cranks and follow some of the good advice that was offered by others,
but you’re probably fine by tightening it up.

> You are right about the threads on a cotterless crank they are both
> right handed where as on a pedal (as Noel noted) they are opposite to
> stop them from from undoing. The threads on a cotterless crank ought to
> be opposite to prevent loosening

I never heard anyone suggest that before :slight_smile: …Probably because it
doesn’t apply. If it did apply, the bike industry probably would have
figured it out by now. But you don’t need to thread parts in specific
directions unless they rotate against other parts, which a cotterless crank
nut doesn’t.

> but a better solution (and more expensive) is a splined
> hub and crank set.

For a guy learning on a brand new unicycle? For the time being, splined
axles are only necessary if you pedal, or jump, reeeeeeal hard or a reeeeal
lot.

> The left is the one most likely to come loose.

Splined or cotterless? Either way, I think this is based on your riding
style rather than the engineering on the cycle. I’m right-footed, so my
right crank tends to come loose before the left. But mostly it doesn’t,
because I check them every once in a while before a ride. When I was using
cotterless cranks on my MUni, I checked them at the start of every ride.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

I have had the problem of my crank coming loose
> while doing allot of one footed stuff so I have had to
> tighten it beyond
> what I ought to to keep it from loosening.
>
> Gary
>
>
> –
> unicus - Unicycling Newbie
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> unicus’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/869
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/17988
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> _____________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

RE: Loose Cranks

> I too have noticed my crank getting loose after about a month
> of riding. I used to ride bikes a lot and never really had
> this problem, so I was kinda surprised.

Bikes get about 90% (or more) of their pedaling force in one direction. A
unicycle gets more like 50/50. The constant reversal of power application
makes cranks come loose faster.

Cottered cranks, in the old days (not that old), were even worse. There was
a much bigger difference between bikes and unicycles with cottered cranks;
they were a pain.

Cotterless was a big improvement, but they can still come lose. The problem
is that we’re using crank arms and axle-ends that were designed for bikes,
and not for the multi-directional load they get on a unicycle. It’s too
expensive to use unicycle-specific parts, as they would be made in too-small
numbers and be much more expensive.

So everyone should check their cotterless cranks periodically, and make sure
the nut is good and tight. If you ride with them loose, it will do damage to
both the hub and crank (more to the crank, especially if aluminum), and you
will probably have to replace them.

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com

“If people want to truly understand mountain biking, they have to do two
other things: ride a unicycle, and master the trampoline.” – Joe Breeze,
one of the originators of mountain biking, in a conversation with Tim Bustos

Re: Loose Cranks

In article <abddem$i3r2@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>,
“Jason King” <jking15@visteon.com> writes:
>
> Anyway last night I noticed that one of the cranks had worked its way loose.
> It wasn’t a problem as I tightened it up and carried on. However is this a
> common occurence with unicycling?
>

I have a no-name Taiwanese unicycle with which I had the exact same
problem. For me, it was a break-in period thing. I’d ride it for
a few hours and then tighten up the cranks. After a couple of
weeks - re-tightening maybe 8 times - they had stopped growing
loose.

Once or twice I also positioned the axle-end on a two-by-four and
then placed another piece of scrap wood on the opposite end and
gave it a couple of good whacks with a hammer. This helped get
things tightened up too. I’ve heard people object to forcing on
the cranks this way, but it worked well for me.

Good luck,

============================================================
Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com>
Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.

John Foss writes:

and

Maybe its not a problem for the bike industry so their not bothered.
I recently went into a mountain bike shop to bye some new crank nuts and the guy took ages to find some 'cause they don’t sell many as the bikes they sell now don’t use them.
In my experiance when I was a fitter any forces on a nut or bolt can make them work loose, even slight forces, so it is good advice to check your nuts before and after a ride :wink:

RE: Loose Cranks

> I recently went into a mountain bike shop to bye some new
> crank nuts and the guy took ages to find some 'cause they
> don’t sell many as the bikes they sell now don’t use them.

That’s right. You had a better experience than me in fact. A while back I
had to go to three bike shops before I found one that had any. That’s just
lame. There are still plenty of older bikes out there, aren’t there?

Most bikes today have a bolt holding the cranks on, instead of a nut, I
haven’t seen any unicycles yet using this design…

JF

RE: Loose Cranks

> I recently went into a mountain bike shop to bye some new
> crank nuts and the guy took ages to find some 'cause they
> don’t sell many as the bikes they sell now don’t use them.

That’s right. You had a better experience than me in fact. A while back I
had to go to three bike shops before I found one that had any. That’s just
lame. There are still plenty of older bikes out there, aren’t there?

Most bikes today have a bolt holding the cranks on, instead of a nut, I
haven’t seen any unicycles yet using this design…

JF

Re: RE: Loose Cranks

I used 8mm crank bolts on the uni.5 because it was easier to bore and tap the axle than to turn down the ends and run a die over them. It’s also more convenient to bore WAY into the axle to engage as much thread as possible.

I went to a bike shop (a LARGE bike shop) looking for crank nuts after I lost one from Steve Howard’s MUni. They searched around for 10 minutes and found two of them which they kindly gave me gratis. They said that as a large, popular bike shop, their old, esoteric stock was depleted fasted than the smaller places.