I am looking for justice. And this is an ethical request, an information gathering post, a request for your opinions.
The following occurred yesterday:
My scooter was stolen, the locks were damaged, and the offending teenagers (18, 19) were caught.
The incident meets the legal criteria for felony property damage charges, felony theft, and felony “unauthorized usage” charges. There is no lesser charge to be applied. This means following a legal route and pressing charges, which can be done up to a year from now, could result in serious jail/prison time, the stripping of voting rights, and the stigma of filling out future job applications with a felony record. I’m finding this outcome difficult to pursue, although I want payment for the damages, I don’t want to devastate the offenders with the justice system.
I have their contact information and I intend to get in touch with them. Maybe this is an opportunity to impress upon them what a felony charge actually means, maybe we can arrange restitution outside of a court order, but maybe they’re unrepentant.
Any thoughts on this matter.
As a side note, the scooter runs fine; the damage was done to the locks on the front compartment and seat, the locking mechanism for the steering column was also stripped. I haven’t had the chance to do a point by point inspection, but this is the apparent damage.
Tricky situation, if you have a friend in Law, then I would ask them.
If you tell them you want money to fix it, they can laugh in your face. If you try and threaten them with legal recourse, then they can claim you are extorting money from them. If you sue them, it could be expensive to you.
Finaly, like you said, you could throw the book at them, which is what I would be inclined to do, but they you are potentially destroying someone’s life over something relatively petty.
Still though I don’t know many people who were doing stuff like that at that age that have gone on to do better things.
Just because they had clean records doesn’t mean they are great citizens.
Your average, every day joe, doesn’t steal motor vehicles.
Would there be a way to add this charge on it they were to ever face other felony charges?
Is there a way that they could basically get away with just a slap on the wrist, pay for the damage, and not have any permanent record, but then if they faced other charges this could come to bite them in the ass a bit harder down the road?
Like ntappin said, if you talk to them first and ask for repair money, and if refused, threaten legal action, they may be able to come back at you with an extortion charge. Given the cost of defending yourself in court and the hassle one way or the other, in your shoes I would probably press charges.
Although a felony conviction could be considered harsh, that was the risk those individuals took when they chose to defy the law and morality in order to steal/damage your lawful property. If there’s a plea bargain involved, they might not get a felony on their record even if convicted.
I’d normally be an advocate of “doing the decent thing” which in this case, I believe would be to give the two individuals a second chance by meeting with them personally. However, given the possible consequences of this, I wouldn’t do it. Either way, you shouldn’t ever be expected to personally give a second chance to criminals who committed a crime against you.
You owe it to them and to others to file the charges.
At their age a felony convection is not so bad. But they need to learn the lesson the hard way before they keep going and hurt themselves or someone else.
If they keep “getting away with it” they will keep doing it.
I simply want to control the situation to the best ends before relinquishing that discretion to the legal process, a small government impulse. The eventual outcome would be beyond me once felony warrants are issued.
In a worst case scenario: a conservative court, a young defendant, a court appointed attorney, and a punishment that is disproportionate to the property. Is that really justice? My ideal form of justice would involve restitution and reformation; money for the damages and a growing class consciousness, perspective on crime, in the minds of the youths. What’s the most ethical path towards this end?
My other thoughts involved providing their information as “known scooter thieves” to some of the scooter advocate groups in the area and people on CL who’ve posted pleas for their stolen scooters. Not just for their own awareness, but maybe to address the impact of losing a ride when you’re already working poor. It’s a betrayal of common struggle. Maybe providing their names to military recruiters or area youth organizations… I really want to engage the offenders in a discussion that outlines the impact of their crime. Less alienation to society and more inclusion. Is this argument to ideal and impractical to work?
I’ve had my car stolen. Never got it back. I’ve had several boom boxes stolen out of my cars over the years. Never got them back. I’ve had two high-end unicycles stolen out of my car. Got those back, and the (alleged) thief was charged with possession of stolen property. I didn’t follow his case beyond seeing him get arrested.
Which one do I feel good about? Only the last one. Thieves suck. Absolutely. I hate them. My stuff is mine. Get your own damn stuff. If you can’t afford the stuff you want, do what I did. Earn it.
Yes, though it doesn’t get any of my stuff back, it may leave the right impression on your two thieves. Could it be excessive? Possibly, but that’s in the court’s hands, not yours.
Start when they’re babies and help raise them. Plus a little luck. In other words, there is very little you can do to ensure this outcome. If you ask them to simply pay for damages in return for not pressing charges, it sends the wrong message. They will think, “If we get caught next time, it won’t be so bad.” The problem is the next time.
You should do this anyway. Our best defense against crime is not being accepting of it. The more people know about criminals in their area, the more they can do to prevent being victims.
What about their rights? Hmm. They have the right to not steal your stuff. End of story there, far as I’m concerned.
No, it’s highly practical, unfortunately it’s illegal.
I, too, support a form of punishment that puts offenders in a public space, wearing some sort of sign that denotes their crime, and members of society can “include” the offenders however they see fit.
I personally think that you should contact and meet the two teenagers.
Maybe you’ll be able to tell whether they were just goofing around and decided to steal something and are regretful for it, or they really wanted to harm someone else’s property.
That doesn’t seem fair, and I don’t see the logic. It can’t be called extortion unless your legal demands are shown to be fraudulent, and you aren’t trying to falsely accuse anyone, are you?
btw, I’ve had a scooter stolen also. I thought I’d never see it again but was quite surprised when - over a year later, and living in another state - I got a call from the sheriff asking if I was the owner. I got it back in similar condition, (locks damaged but still running fine).
You may fail miserably and let a couple of creepos get away with it and head off to do it again. On the other hand you may help reform a couple of no-goodniks.
On the other hand if you have them prosecuted the end result may be a couple of kids scared straight. Although it’s always possible that their time in the system will embitter them and train them to be career criminals.
The point, of course, is that you don’t know what the outcome will be but Billy, needless to say, would remind you what Jesus would do and in this case he’d be right to do so.
Find out what the local laws are for felony convictions. Not all felony convictions result in loss of voting rights. It depends on the local laws. They could very well still be able to vote for Obama again in 4 years even if they get a felony conviction.
Also find out what the kids are likely to get as a first offense. It might not be a felony.
