Hooray!
The Kyoto accord officially goes into effect today. All those crazy nations are risking their own economic well-being for the ridiculous cause of keeping our planet inhabitable by humans.
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steveyo
Is it hot in here, or is it just me?
Random song for your post:
It’s a matter of prescience -no, not the science fiction kind
It’s all about ignorance, and greed, and miracles for the blind
The media parading, disjointed politics
Founded on petrochemical plunder, and we’re it’s hostages
If you stand to reason you’re in the game
The rules might be elusive but our pieces are the same
And you know if one goes down we all go down as well
The balance is precarious as anyone can tell
This world’s going to hell
Don’t allow this mythologic hopeful monster to exact it’s price
Kyoto now!
We can’t do nothing and think someone else will make it right
You might not think it matters now but what if you are wrong
You might not think there’s any wisdom in a fucked up punk rock song
But the way it is cannot persist for long
A brutal sun is rising on our sick horizon
It’s in the way we live our lives
Exactly like the double edge of a cold familiar knife
And supremacy weighs heavy on the day
It’s never really what you own but what you threw away
And how much did you pay?
Don’t allow this mythologic hopeful monster to exact it’s price
Kyoto now!
We can’t do nothing and think someone else will make it right
In your dreams you saw a steady state a bounty for eternity
Silent screams
But now the wisdom that sustains us is in full retreat
Watch out!
Don’t allow this mythologic hopeful monster isn’t worth the risk
Kyoto now!
We can’t have vision for the future if it can’t be fixed
Alien
We need a fresh and new religion to run our lives
Hand in hand
The arid torpor of inaction will be our demise
Oh, kyoto now!
There, that was fun, no?
Seriously, economics vs the planet we live on…
We are so weird.
Kyoto really is nothing to hoo har about…It’s virtually worthless. Yet the politicians are hailing it as our saviour… enough to keep the masses ignorant enough of their own over indulgence to keep on spending. It makes no sense why people still aren’t grasping the fact that we need to change our lifestyles In order to have somewhere to live, and to lessen the blow of the enormous human impact climate change is starting to create. If you think the tsunami was bad you really haven’t seen anything yet. You reckon the famines in Ethiopia were bad…We really are screwed, And ultimately it is our race that will suffer the direst concequences (and rightly so after all the damage we’ve done). Nature will keep on going I’ve no doubt. And in the long term things will balance out, new species will evolve and replace the ones we helped to kill off…
I seem to have gone off on one a bit there…yeah, what I’m trying to say is that everyone needs to sit and think for a minute what impact their life has on the planet, and all the life upon it, and work on ways you can minimize it.
Kit
edit: forgot to post the link to an article I read today
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=611434
Amen Brotha! The politicians and hard core hippies make it out to be this solution that will make the world all pretty and happy and nice, but it really wont. The fact is the earth is going to get polluted and will eventually turn into a giant version of Hong-kong, but with a Denver haze. There isn’t all that much we can do, execpt to get everyone to do just a little for the inviroment.
There’s not much eventually about it. We’re seeing changes already and within 10-20 years we’re going to start seeing some pretty scary stuff. And common consensus seems to be that if we make big changes in the next 10 years we may be able to make a considerable difference. However I don’t hold out much hope of that. The scandinavians have the right idea. And most of europe is better than britain. And as for America…The crazy thing about the kyoto accords is that neither the U.S., China or India are, or have any obligation to sign up…Crrrazy!
I also reckon that the only way merica is going to vhange in the near future is if americans start demanding more environmentally friendly products. More recycling facilities etc. America is the biggest consumer economy in the world; in america the consumer is king…Ergo the consumers must start spending their money more responsibly. It’s not as if there’s going to be any kind of initiative from Bush’s end of things
Kit
I disagree.
While it’s far from a complete solution, Kyoto is an high-profile, international initiative in the right direction, and increases people’s awareness of the problems of global warming, though not in the US.
[i][begin political rant, which I said I’d never do here again][/i]
The US, as the world worst polluter, has greatly weakened Kyoto by pulling out of the agreement.
President Bush, perhaps due to his beliefs as a “near-ender”, doesn’t think it’s worth going against the desires of his oil, coal, gas industry supporters’ wishes to support Kyoto, or indeed, to promote any kind of conservation at all. He says the “jury’s still out” on global warming.
Now, a few well watched US faux-news shows have called global warming junk science, but the jury’s NOT out. There have been 928 peer-reviewed, truly scientific studies on global warming in the last decade and not one of them disagrees with the fact that humans are causing unprecedented increases in global temperature.
Yes, Kit, people need to take the initiative and change their lifestyle, but they often need leaders to show them the way, and that ain’t happening here, where it’s most needed. This country continues to consume and pollute as if there’s no tommorrow.
[i][end rant, with my apologies][/i]
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steveyo
Although I concede it’s a step in the right direction in terms of internationally agreed limits on pollution; it is only the first step the international communty has taken. In terms of real, tangible effects the results of the reductions due to kyoto (if they are met) will produce are negligable over a hundred year span. If however Kyoto does turn out to be a catalyst for other; more far reaching international agreements on climate change then it’s a good thing. But having seen the hand wringing that’s been going on over ability to reach kyoto targets and how much it’ll cost the taxpayer etc I don’t hold out much hope.
Sorry for all the pessimism, but Climate change (far too nicer, fluffy name) really is a huge problem that too few people are trying/willing to find solutions to…I get uppity thinking about it.
Kit
even though i believe that kyoto is virtually worthless i wish the US had signed it, now it just makes us look like stuck up B*%#@es.
(begin political rant
I believe it to be worthless because anything that politicians say is worthless
(end political rant)
The lady on NPR quoted science that stated that the ultimate effect on the environment would be 1/10 of a degree C in 100 yrs. Everyone can quote their own science to the advantage of their own argument. But lets say she’s right. The effect on the environment would be negligible but the effect on the world economy would be devastating.
Consider also, how many fewer $$ we and other developed countries would be willing give as charity if everyone’s economy tanked. Millions would suffer.
I’m confident that our amazing human brains will come up with less harmful forms of energy production in those next 100 years. That sounds sarcastic, but its not. We used to run around naked with pointy sticks. Now we fly and our trains levitate. We can do it.
aaah, the good ole’ days…
this book is worth the long and (occasionally) slightly belaboured read
final word?
Spaceship Earth
I was going to stay out of this, but I have to agree with Tom. I align myself with the majority of scientists who don’t agree with the vocal minority that we are the cause of all the earths ills. What caused the ice age? What did we as humans do to come out of it? Things happen in this world that are completely out of our hands, and there is very little that we can do to cause it or prevent it. To think differently is pretty egotistical.
I agee with Bugman and I am an Earth Science graduate (not that really means anything).
The Kyoto Accord is a joke. If you really want to change the planet for the better how about imposing rules on individuals instead of countries and corporations. That’s right folks, an international birth rate limit. There are too many people trying to hang out on this round rock…of course it’s gonna get polluted. Why don’t we say that a couple is only allowed to replace there own numbers (2 children per couple). Yea, the hippies start getting all skweemish when you start regulating them instead of the government…but if you really want to fix the planet then that is the fastest route by far. Nothing will help quicker than a population reduction.
Hey!!! We ain’t the fat kid on the block no more! Meet the new Toby 
Industry can and I think should be investing more in alternatves to fosil fuels. The oil and gas won’t last for ever and renewable energy is going to be essetial in the future. Some alternatives also pollute less than fosil fuel.
Personally I’m happy to see wind farms on the hill sides and solar panels on roofs. I’m pleased that some major biulding projects around here are being designed to be energy efficent buildings with links to the local cycle network and bus routes going right to the door.
I hadn’t realised till the other day that the USA is the world leader in pollution. I think it shocking that a developed , rich nation are prepared to acept and enjoy that title.
I’m glad my government - tho I don;t agree with them on everything- HAVE taken the public step of signing up to Koyoto.
Sarah
I am for a more weakend Government than it is right now and everything, but I am for a birth rate limit. Start it out at 4, then gradually move it to two. though the Gov’t is controlling you, tou shouldn’ have more than 2 anyways. coughmormanscough
The big, big problem is what happenes if you do get pregnat after 2 births? You can always have an abortion, but this makes the good ol boys squeamish.
The majority of scientists believe that global warming is due to a build-up of greenhouse gas from human activities. Unfortunately, yours is a widely held opinion, especially in the US, but with all due respect, dead wrong.
From SCIENCE MAGAZINE:Vol 306, Issue 5702, 1686 , 3 December 2004
The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC’s purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth’s climate is being affected by human activities: “Human activities … are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents … that absorb or scatter radiant energy. … [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations”(emphasis mine)
This article goes on to say:
“Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (8).”
A “vocal minority”? I think not.
Read the whole article, I dare you.
link: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=Oreskes,%2BNaomi&searchid=1108487097688_7206&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=10/1/1995&tdate=2/28/2005
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Sadly,
steveyo
I guess I need to clarify.
I do think that humans are affecting the climate. I think global warming also is happening naturally. Earth cycled warm and cold and warm and cold… for 100000000s of yrs. and humans weren’t even here. But you can’t put this much stress on the systems and think it doesn’t have an effect.
The lady on NPR quoted science that stated that the ultimate effect on the environment of adhering to the Kyoto Accord would be 1/10 of a degree C in 100 yrs.
If we believe her model, and I do, then the Accord is more harmful than helpful.
We need vibrant, healthy economies in order to have the resources necessary for ingenious invention. Its those future fantastic advancements in technology that will give us better, less harmful forms of energy production. That will catapult us out of the roll of problem causer and into the roll of problem solver.
With vibrant, healthy economies we have more resources for helping the dissadvantaged.
If you stifle economic health, everthing suffers. Less innovation. Less charity. Longer dependency on Fossil Fuels. More greenhouse gasses. Accelerated global warming.
We are the planet’s most brilliant creatures. We can solve this.
[Rant]
Are you saying that by our government’s ignoring Kyoto we’re on the path toward a vibrant economy? Have you seen all the cuts in this year’s budget? About half of them slash or kill various education programs - so much for promoting ingenious inventions. All 154 budget cuts equal about one third of rich people’s tax cuts - that’s not heading toward a vibrant economy.
Are you saying we need to continue sucking down fossil fuels so we can shorten our period of dependency on them? If the US government directed its considerable resources to that end, instead of supporting Enrons and Halliburtons and rich people’s tax cuts, we could have a vibrant economy.
We have the resources necessary for ingenious invention and future fantastic advancements in technology. Let’s direct, say, half of the defense budget to educating future scientists and developing alternative energy sciences. That’d be $200 billion vs. our current alternative energy expenditure of about $2 billion. Enough to create a booming industry in alternative energy development, eh?
If we could eliminate our need for mideast oil, we wouldn’t need to maintain all the bases in the mideast and the poor muslims there wouldn’t resent the infidels (us) living amonst them, thus lessening our need for such a huge military. Our defense budget, at $200+ billion, would still be many times greater than any other country’s.
[End rant]
But I digress.
I agree that Kyoto is only a small step, but it’s in the right direction. If our leaders chose to participate, it would be our country’s FIRST step toward conservation since Bush killed the legislation to force Detriot to improve their gas mileage back in 2001.
Kyoto is only a starting point
Well… I guess I’ll wade into this one.
The Kyoto Accord is only meant to be a starting point. It is an act that allows 55% of the planets countries to start doing something cooperatively. Once in place, there is a great deal more that has to be and will be done. There are more conferences coming with world leaders to address the situation and to continue to improve upon it.
A link about the next conference:
www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/16/kyoto-montreal050216.html
As to our ability to impact the planet, think of the following:
Why is it considered suicide when a person leaves their car engine running with the garage door closed, but when the garage door is open, it’s not? How many garages of air on the planet are there really?
Why is it that the UN is concerned about climate change?
http://unfccc.int/essential_background/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php
Why is it that there are hundreds of not for profit organizations that are attempting to stop climate change?
Why is it that the rates of asthma are increasing at a phenomenal rate?
“statistics [show] a doubling of asthma cases from 6.8 million in 1980 to 14.6 million in 1996, and a further increase to 17.3 million in 1999” www.phpab.org/asthma%20report/ReportPortal1.htm
The consensus on the planet is clear, climate change is happening now; CO2 levels are rising, fast. Humans are to blame for the extreme speed up.
Kyoto is a joke. Canada decided to sign, probably just to “look good”, but our government does absolutely jack-all about it. Last year our “greenhouse gas” emissions rose 30%. I highly doubt there will be a change in that trend, kyoto or not. The only thing kyoto will do is knock a big hole in our economy.
I too think that global warming is a pile of bs.