KH or Hunter (stiffness and flex)

if you were to take out the wheel of a KH and a Hunter frame,then squeeze the bearing holders together.which would be harder to squeeze together?

would it be the double stays of a Hunter or the fatter tubes or the KH?

I’d say the hardest one to squeeze would be the one you paid the most for. Not due to the properties of the metal, but due to the pain your wallet feels when you bend your prized possession unnecessarily.

and in my case it is nessasary to know this before purchase.

This MIGHT be useful …

If you clamp in a vice a piece of .5" diameter x .065" inch wall 4130 tube so 12" is sticking out, then push on the end of the tube with 50 pounds force, the end you are pushing on will deflect about .45 inches. This would be kind of like one tube on a Hunter frame. Push on the end of two tubes clamped side by side in a vice with 50 pounds force and they will deflect about .22 inches - half as much as a single tube.

If you do the same thing with a 1.25" x .5" x .065" wall 4130 oval tube it will deflect about .19 inches. This oval tube is similar to the fork leg on a KH frame.

So two .5" round tubes deflect slightly more that one oval tube.

I think the KH crown and gusseting would be stiffer than the Hunter crown though, so my guess is that the KH frame is stiffer.

Then again I may be all wet …

Steve Howard

Just out of curiosity, why is this important? Or I should say, why is this particular bending mode the most important? Is it just because it’s easy to do and gives an indication of frame stiffness, or does it have special significance for unicycle riding?

cause im shoppin for a new 24" muni frame and i want one with the least amount of frame flex as possible.this is most important because i will be useing a brake and i dont want my rim flexing into the brake pads…make sence?

I think there is a special significance. Because Jagur is

Sounds to me like he wants the best. I don’t think frame flex is much of an issue with the decent frames that are available. The only one I know of that flexes while riding is the Schwinn, with the flat blade-like forks. I have never heard of any Hunter or KH frame owners complaining of flex or bending. You’d have to run the frames over with a car or a truck maybe before bending them significantly enough to notice.

that did help,it puts numbers to some other reports i have heard about these two styles of frame building,thank you Steve.

Yeah, makes sense.

The wheel deflects quite a bit laterally, too. It’s at least as much of a factor in brake rubbing as the frame. Usually more so, but it sounds like you’re taking the time and spending the big bucks, so there isn’t going to be much room for improvement.

The things to look for there are wide flange spacing, thicker spokes, and of course MORE spokes, though these all add weight.

Why don’t you fully customise it and set up with a hydraulic disc brake? That way your brake would not rely on your rim being straight, and your brakes should theoretically still work with a buckle. I don’t know how fat a disc brake is, maybe they aren’t used often on Unicycles due to it widening the Q-factor, and maybe not fitting inside most regular frames.

some people out their are prototyping disc brakes, but nobody has them even near production yet. afaik

many people wont want them because they are going to break if you do any grabs with them.

but loads of people ride munis downhill and dont do trials, so i reccon that they’d still sell.

but i’m sure the people in the business of making stuff like that know more than i do.

While as a Hunter owner I have my bias, I think you’d have to be cranking super-super hard to have flex become a factor on either of these frames, if indeed it would be at all. On the KH, we can assume it’s not a significant issue based on known video footage of KH with his brake in situations others are not likely to encounter. So the question mark is the Hunter. Certainly on mine I haven’t seen that as an issue, although probably the steepest hill I’ve ridden with a brake wasn’t on my Hunter, it was on Rob Brown’s Hunter with an Alex, not Sun, rim. It was that one steep hill in the Reed College canyon we were all trying to go up and down…I rode down it super slow and the braking was smooth and constant the whole way. I talked to several Hunter/Mag owners at CA weekend, and likewise didn’t hear any complaints.

I think it gets down to style points and functionality Jag. I think Hunters look cooler style-wise (plus they’re LOCKABLE). The KH is probably more functional with the flat crown. I don’t have to worry about needing a place to put my foot for one-foot riding, but you might…

Finally, there’s a unique consideration that you have that others do not, which is re-sale or aftermarket value. When you go to dispose of this 24" super-ride a year from now, which model will bring the better resale or trade options? Clearly the CA gang favors Hunters…maybe you’ll do better going that way, then planning on selling it at next year’s CA Muni Weekend. :wink:

I have heard this a couple of times, how the Hunter is lockable. I have no trouble locking Unicycles that have regular forks. A lot of bikes get stolen when they are locked up anyway, it provides a challenge for the theif, and they seem to feel better about taking one that isn’t so easy. I mostly leave my Unicycles unlocked, even my $4000 one. Not too many local people ride, and many people know me and what my Unicycle looks like. If someone was to steal my Wilder, they would have a tough time selling it, and whoever bought it would soon be recognised if they were to ride it in public. I figure that if someone stole my Unicycle I would most likely find them 20 or 30 meters down the road still trying to learn to ride. Sometimes I leave a Unicycle lying around and encourage people to have a go as long as it’s still there when I get back.

Tom, you could learn to ride one-footed with your foot extended. You don’t need a place for your foot when it’s waving in the air. It’s a handy skill to know for when a foot comes off the pedal, or when you snap an axle, or when you feel the need to kick someone while riding.

With a standard frame, the only thing you can really lock is the rim. A hex wrench could separate the frame from the rim pretty quickly, and a new KH frame hits the aftermarket.

With the Hunter, the frame forms a closed loop on both sides, allowing you to lock both the frame and the rim. At that point, the only thing that could be quickly and easily stolen is the seat.

Just because they can’t ride it won’t necessarily deter a petty thief. I had this conversation with John Foss recently…he had someone bust into his van, steal his unis, then try to sell them a couple weeks later at an LBS. I’ve talked to others that have seen theirs go and never be recovered. You have had good fortune… I wouldn’t leave $4000 lying around unguarded no matter what form of currency it had been converted into.

Just my tuppence.


if i have to leave my uni somewhere where it will get nicked then i lock it, however this only tends to happen once a year or so.

but when it does happen i rely on the cheapest bycycle lock ever made, to deter oportunistic theives. through the wheel and sometimes a pedal. somebody could quite conceivabley walk away with an unlocked unicycle, just out of curiosity.
but verry few people would actualy bother breaking the lock to get it.

realisticly though nobody in their right mind is going to go to the bother of stealing only part of a unicycle. what on earth do you do with a unicycle frame if you dont ride?

because i dont want that…

I know we’re drifting further and further from the subject here, but does anyone know about a unicycle that was stolen while locked?

Not while in a locked car, as I’ve had that happen to me twice in my life (3 unicycles total). But a unicycle with a bike lock or similar securing it?

well thanx for helping me hold the line :roll_eyes: So when are all your Muni-week-end photos going to be posted?

Re: KH or Hunter (stiffness and flex)

johnfoss wrote:
> I know we’re drifting further and further from the subject here, but
> does anyone know about a unicycle that was stolen while locked?
> Not while in a locked car, as I’ve had that happen to me twice in my
> life (3 unicycles total). But a unicycle with a bike lock or similar
> securing it?

Four Cokers were stolen in the UK while locked to two bikes - but as far
as I know they weren’t locked to anything immobile so it probably
doesn’t count.

Mind you, I’d’ve classed 4 Cokers and 2 bikes locked together as immobile.


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Birmingham Business Park, | the one-wheeled man is king. <<
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you can lock any frame, except the schwinn, which you can just take apart. the way i do it is i wrap my chain/cable around the seatpost tube, and the run both ends underneath the crown. i then run one of the ends through the wheel, and lock it really tight so there isn’t enough slack to pull the chain/cable over the top of the seatpost tube