KH 26 Frame?

Unicycles and Equipment
45

The 26" with a 47mm rim and a 2.6 Gazz will be far more user friendly for single track than the 2.3 Stout. If there were a 29er Gazz 2.6, with the same rim widths, then they’d be very similar similar.

I have the KH 29 with a Stout and I sold it because it did not handle as well as my 24" muni with an Intense DH 24x3. Part of the problem is the increase ride height, but it really comes down to tire volume and profile. The Stout is a mtb tire, meant to be ridden in pairs, so it’s really not that wide if your coming from the Duro Wildlife, Gazz, or Intense.

Though the Stout is one of the highest volume 29er tires, it doesn’t absorb surface variations, rocks, roots, etc… enough to be considered a muni tire. I’m not an expert rider, but I’m a solid intermediate, and I felt like the 29er with a Stout made everything at least one grade harder, at times kicking me off the uni in places where I cruised through on a 24.

I have ridden a 26" with a Gazz 2.6, it was a good ride, not really sure why I sold it, but it was a good compromise between a 24" and a 29". The 26 rolls obstacles better that the 24, still tech worthy, not noticeably heavier than the 24. Many people believe the 26 is just too close to the 24, but I noticed a significant difference.

I will be getting a KH 26, but I’ll set it up as a lightweight ride, 2.5 single ply tire, ~38mm rim, light cranks, Ti hub, carbon seat, etc… My 24 will remain my workhorse muni for the nasty stuff.

46

About the maneuverability …

It’s funny. I ride mostly my KH29 on the trails these days, although I’ve been taking some decent forays into 36er muni, too. Now, when I ride the KH24 with 3" Gazz, I do notice how quickly it adjusts to the line I want to take, compared to the bigger wheels. But I’m not sure that it’s more maneuverable than a 29er. It has to do with flow. Even though I can change course more quickly on the 24, I find that the increased speed with the 29er lets me flow through rougher sections just as well, and I still am able to navigate it around 90% of the obstacles I want to miss. There are a bunch of sections where I ride most of the time with rock gardens filled with baby-head rocks, so it’s not smooth singletrack (but it IS a lot of fun!).

So I guess that, even though the smaller wheel is easier to maneuver, its tank-like ability to bust through about anything makes me not worry nearly as much about maneuvering when I’m on it. The 29er makes me pay closer attention to the trail, and try harder to stick to a particular line as I ride. Part of this is due to the lower air volume in the smaller-width 29er tire, which necessitates avoiding sharp-edged rocks and bigger drops.

FWIW, I’m running a Nevegal 2.3 on the 29er. The Stout was nicer in terms of air volume, but it weighed a flippin’ ton and about killed my (not great anyway) hill climbing ability. Plus I find the Nev to react very little to trail camber.

Oh, and my 14 year old son is having a great time on that 26x2.6 setup Nurse Ben put together (glad I bought it!). He uses 137s on it, and tears up the trails. It’s a nice muni!

47

Hopefully this will not be considered as a threadjack but I think it can fit in here: The dual holed KH Moments are currently available in 165/143, 150/125 and 125/110 right? I was just thinking that maybe the combination of 143/120 could be a nice addition for some of the mixed terrain muni/distance riding done with geared munis. Or maybe 145/123. Or something like that. I’m not sure what the minimal distance between pedal holes has to be. Just a thought.

48

right for 150/125 and 125/110 but not 165/137 instead of 165/143
150/125 and 165/137 have inserts for pedals but not for 125/110 as not enought place (probably not very important for such short lenght not used for Muni)

49

Okay, thanks, that’s right.

50

This is fairly typical of one of the more technical sections I intend to ride. Most drops are 6-8", w/ some options of drops up to 2 ft, w/o having to jump up to them.

The larger wheel would be easier to roll over the top of rocks, but a larger tire would absorb the hit better and be more stable going over. So… :thinking:

51

I vote 26x3

52

Some of my rides are over similar terrain and I can do them with both the 24 and 29. The 24 smooths out the bumps and the 29 flows a little better. Both work great and are fun in slightly different ways. On the trails that are a notch or two more technical with bigger drops, I prefer the 24.

53

I concur, with 160mm cranks :sunglasses:

54

That looks just like the trails I ride all the time in Chico. The 29er is fine on them–loads of fun. Heck, even the 36er is fun on those.

55

If were allowed to have only 1 Muni (unthinkable) and I wanted to be able to ride everything, including hardcore technical - It would be a 24. (I’m always riding by myself so keeping up with others is never an issue). If you aren’t doing anything super-technical, then the 26 might be a good option.

56

In a way the KH24 (and other 24x3 munis) are the SUV’s of muni - the one that can do everything but not necessarily very efficient at some of it. Personally I wouldn’t use a 26 or larger wheel with a huge tire because, if the terrain required that tire, I would rather be on a 24 wheel for other reasons anyway (manouverability, ability to hop, etc).

For me the Stout works well for up to the most aggressive terrain I’d use that size for anyway before switching to a 24. Probably a big reason is weight- in an all-mountain or XC uni the tire weight matters IMO because it affects climbing effort.

Kris

57

Hey, I just thought it’s better to revive this thread than to make a new one. My question is:
What larger volume tires do fit in the new KH26 frame besides the WTB stout and the likes, which I wouldn’t consider large volume anyways. So now that we know that the 3" ones won’t work, where exactly is the limit? 2.5", 2.6", 2.7" or even 2.8"?

So at this time I guess Kris is the only one to know exactly what fits and what doesn’t. But I’m also interested in some recommendations of other riders for large volume <3" (G)muni tires in 26" size.

So tires that come to my mind in particular are:

26x2.5: TryAll Stiky, Schwalbe Muddy Mary DH, Kenda K-Rad, Kenda Nevegal, Maxxis Hookworm and many more…

26x2.6: Nokian Gazza, Arrow Racing Savage W

26x2.7: Maxxis Minion, Intense FRO 909

26x2.8: Michelin DH Comp 32 Soft

I’ve read somewhere that the Michelin is actually a little narrower than 2.8", by the way. People (downhillers) were really excited about that tire, though, so if that one fits the new frame I think I definitely want to try it.

58

That’s exactly where I’m heading now. I am waiting for the UDC container to arrive next week. I may just order a Nimbus 26" and a KH 26", then try them out on my wheel for fit. I have a TRYALL STIKY 2.5 on the way, which I will measure in the frame(s). I’ll post frame measurements and pics as well.

I don’t have any other beefy 26er tires, so maybe someone with a Duro 26 x 3and/or a Gazz 26 x 2.6 could do a measurement (Peter K?).

As I understand it, the fit problem is due to the height (low crown) versus width.

59

Great, I’m curious what the measurements will be. And yes, you’re right about the actual problem being height versus width. But maybe the Michelin DH Comp 32 is also not too high for the crown. Hopefully…

60

I just heard from someone who already got his KH26 frame, that the distance from the crown inside to the bearing center is only 34,5cm. That is 1cm less than on my 2007 KH24! It is also exactly what I figured to be the radius of my hookworm 26x2.5. So not even that tire will fit the new frame. I hope for Nurse Ben the TryAll Stiky does fit. Anything above 2.5" is out of the question then. Please correct me if the measurements are wrong.
Otherwise this means I’ll have to wait for the next model. I hope it won’t take too long until the 3" compatible version comes.

61

Hey,

Attached FYI are photos of the KH26 with the 26x2.3" WTB Stout tire, and 26 x 2.5" WTB Dissent Team DH tire (2.5"). Both have 10 mm clearance.

With the Stout tire (my preferred setup for All Mountain riding), the uni weighs only 6.9 kg including a geared hub and 150 mm Moment cranks (7.2 kg with a brake). You do notice it since the weight savings is in the tire and the rolling resistance compared to a 3" tire is lower. Of course it really depends in the end what you want to do with the uni though, whether you like this setup.

Kris

KH26_Dissent.jpg
KH26_Dissent.jpg439×640 153 KB

KH26_Stout.jpg
KH26_Stout.jpg420×640 139 KB

KH26_Stout2.jpg
KH26_Stout2.jpg373×640 118 KB

62

Kris, it does look very good in the pictures. So the 26 x 2.5" WTB Dissent fits too. Do you know about the TryAll? Although I don’t know if it would be a good muni tire.

63

I don’t know, actually, as I’ve not tried it. It’s so hard to tell from the quoted tire size; for example with the 2.3 Stout and 2.5 Dissent the clearance is the same. The big difference on these two tires is is casing weight - the Stout weighs around 900g and the Dissent just under 1400g.

Kris

64

A hookworm is a tire you might want to test in the frame. I have one on my urban 26" wheel, it is a great tire for the street.

I have never measured it but it is a fairly tall 2.5.