So, in another thread I started thinking about the kids.
I really think it is evil to indoctrinate children into any kind of religion. And while religion is some of the worst of it (not as bad as raising them as racists or bigots, but close, and sometimes overlapping).
Why not have a class in school that teaches kids about many sides of as many issues as possible. I would say start as young as possible (first grade, age five, six?). Discuss things like religion, politics, vegetarianism, bigotry, marriage, etc.
The classes wouldn’t take a side on any issue, or even argue the points. They would just be a wide variety of facts.
Of course, some people would home school so they could indoctrinate their kids anyway (which is the reason for many kids being home schooled already). But I also think that all kinds should be in school for a mandatory 1/2 day, every day, until they can legally drop out at 16 or so.
Nick, some people keep their kids out of school from the belief that schools are indoctrinating students; filling their minds with political correctness, godlessness, and socialism. Fortunately in this country, the United States of America, we get to decide - within some limits - how are kids are raised and the beliefs we pass on to them.
I think if you want a diverse, pluralistic society you’re stuck with the people you consider nutjobs. And they’re stuck with you.
Even contradictory “facts,” like the names of the first humans (Adam & Eve), how old the Earth is (6,000 years), how God spent the 7th day after creating the universe, etc?
The goal of the class would be to present facts, not opinions. I’m pretty anti-religion, but the goal of the class would be to put forth the ideas of many religions (include pastafarianism) and of atheism and agnosticism, and then at least the information is out there.
What are kids being indoctrinated into in the current educational system? And if there is a problem, why not change that (in my hypothetical world), for the good of the entire population, instead of just removing some kids from that system.
Using religion as another example, I think that if you taught kids about all the possible religions, and explain what atheism is and what agnosticism is, most would eventually come out as atheists or agnostics. Of course, if you just teach kids about one religion, and never show them anything else they will likely end up getting into that religion.
Both sides of the PC issue could be taught in the class. Same thing with socialism vs libertarianism vs anarchism vs dictatorship (etc).
There are plenty of things that this country should be diverse about (bikes or unicycles, for one).
The only reason that an idea like this would make anything less diverse is if there was only one correct choice for any of the topics discussed. So if a topic had many possible choices, all being as good as any other, than diversity would increase. If there was one choice better than the others, than that would get picked more.
As far as living peaceably alongside others with differing beliefs, I believe that religion is a bigger threat to the prospect of world peace than anything else. What kind of a person is going to make the call for a nuclear strike:
An atheist who believes that this is the only life we have to live.
or:
A Palin-esque religious true believer who honestly thinks we live in the end times, they will be reborn in heaven with jesus, and may actually believe they are acting as an instrument of god.
I think, as BillytheMountain will gleefully point out, that there have been tyrants for whom atheism was an integral part of their dogma who would gladly make a nuclear strike in the defense of their authority. The insanity that is nuclear weaponry is not a religious issue in my opinion.
That said I agree that religion is a net bad in the world, but I also have come to believe that what each of us should do is to merely live - to the best of our ability - the life that most nearly creates the world we believe should exist.
Are you serious? Have you ever been in a room full of 5 & 6 year old kids? This is how I start my day every day. Why not drop the PC bullshit with kids and teach them how to read, write and do math so they can make a living someday?
I’m about as anti-religion as they come. I’m pretty anti-government, anti-public school, and anti-democratic control of personal choice, too. As for crushing creationism in science class, I agree that it should be crushed…just as soon as it can be disproved. If you haven’t noticed, we’re not there yet and perhaps will never be.
So, if I understand you correctly, anarchy would naturally win out, and then we would no longer have your dreamed vision of forcing people to indoctrinate their offspring with certain ideas such as the ones you propose.
Nick, you are simply showing us why central planning does not work. Diversity (and freedom) only can happen when you let it by not engaging in central planning and forcing others to abide by your ideas.
I’m with fkb!
I’m also a school teacher (high school).
I’ve only been reading and participating in this forum for a little less than 4 months. It seems longer than that, for some reason… maybe because I’ve made so many friends here.
One thing comes to mind when I think about the communication here. It is good natured, well-mannered, friendly conversation between a wide variety of people from all over the world. We speak to each other without prejudice, and without regard for age, dialect, race, geographical location, appearance, etc., etc.
I don’t know why that seems to me to be an appropriate comment for this particular thread.
I find the comradeship here to be fascinating, comfortable and supportive in every way. To me, that is not something that is taught in school. It grew out of a group of people who share a common interest in an uncommon activity. I would never have guessed that riding a unicycle would have opened up such a wide, new world to me, but I am happy it did!
I’m sure this will sound like it came out of left field, but somehow (to me) it seems to be related.
Fortunately, you live in a country where you don’t have to. You can believe what you want. As a minor, though, you’re kind of stuck with what your parents want. If you try to un-teach the parents’ teachings in school, it’s just going to create conflict with the parents who really want to teach their own beliefs at home, and they’ll end up teaching them even harder.
Sounds like a great idea in theory. But I can’t even find a talk show that does this, anywhere on all the many channels offered by my cable provider. Think we can actually make it happen in thousands of individual classrooms?
Plus, you’ve somehow made religion required learning, when most of us believe it should be required-omitted in public education. Hands off. If anything, the teaching should be that there are many different religions in this world, and this country, and all are equally legitimate under the law.
Do you mean public school? This again interferes with peoples’ freedoms.
The good according to whom? You won’t get a consensus on that one.
What I think our public schools need more of is teaching kids how to problem-solve. How to manage money, and how to take care of your physical body. Most importantly, how to be tolerant of beliefs, customs and opinions that are different from your own. To me, that’s the American way.
But the money one seems to be really needed. I am constantly amazed as I realize how many of the people I know and work with, intelligent, excellent people, can’t seem to manage their finances no matter what their level of pay. It’s epidemic, and this world is full of industries that prey on these people. Sure, that’s the entrepreneurial spirit, but ewww.
That has nothing to do with religion, and probably everything to do with ego. The most likely person to do it would be a megalomaniac who cares more about himself than his own people. For someone like that religion is just used as an excuse.
Yes.
And they get jobs… and become politicians… and do not use their power appropriately… wasting literally trillions of dollars. Sorry to even go there! The entire educational system is messed up, and it is getting worse, which then affects society as those kids become adults. Rome did not last forever!!
I would also add “integrity.”
I’m not sure how integrity can be taught across the board, especially since there are very few good public role models. Cheating is the norm. Cheating is “okay” in big business, entertainment, news media, the judicial system, and in government. It is rampant in the school system, not only with students (who are LAZY and don’t care to put in the effort for high scores), but with teachers (who want high scores) and administrators (who want high scores). If students don’t learn integrity at home, they are unlikely to learn it in school or from the world around them.
These statements are generalities and are not true in every instance, but lack of interity is rampant and is pervasive throughout all levels of society.
I hear a lot about our “Freedom”, and in general I am supportive of the idea. What seems to get left out is our RESPONSIBILITY to each other to make a civil society work. It might include things like paying our bills, individually and collectively, and not living well beyond our means. It might include the idea that we should work together to make government work, even if it does not go all our way, rather than trying to crush the other guy. Ultimately we are all in this together, but I see little sense of common purpose in our public discourse.
