Illegal Alien Issue

Off-topic
1

So I pass this joke around the office to a handful of people. A little later, I’m approached by the Operations Manager and good friend who tells me that my joke has offended an employee, an Hispanic girl, and suggests that I consider apologizing to her.

I agreed and immediately went to find the girl. I told her that I understand she was offended, that I didn’t need to know the reason why, just knowing she’s offended is enough for me, and I apologized. I told her that next time I would try to think better first. She was pretty bitter about it and responded with an emphatic, “Please do that.”. Hopefully now, time will heal. I usually feel terrible whenever I offend someone.

But when I get back to my office, I find this email:
“Bruce,
That joke was NOT funny at ALL, That was so disrespectful, many of my family are illegal immigrants. Now that I told you that, why don’t you go and ship them all to Iraq.”

In her defense, she did send me the email before I apologized to her. But now that I have her email, I’m not sure how to think about the whole thing. It’s possible that even she is an illegal alien. If she is here legally, she shouldn’t be offended. If she is here illegally, she has no right to be offended. Now I’m offended. Why should her relatives be allowed to live here, absorb the benefits, not pay taxes, etc. when I have to work and sacrifice for my privilege of living in this country?

Secondly, the joke does not mention any nationality at all. Unfortunately, it’s too often and easily assumed here that illegal alien equates to Hispanic. It shouldn’t be that way.

Thirdly, she is putting me at risk by giving me such information on her family. Working in the school system, Mary is mandated to report suspected child abuse. Am I similarly mandated to report illegal activity?

As management, I documented the incident and let it go. I hope it’s buried. We’ll see how she handles it next time our paths cross, which they do everyday.

2

isn’t it illegal to hold that information?

she hasn’t really used her comon sence there and also she has put her whole family at jeporedy(sp?), just to express the fact that she is offended.

Yoopers i am with you on this one. I Know it is not there fault but what they are doing is still illegal and now she has sucked you into it.

If they are discovered she could argue that you knew… then a pickle could be on the menu.

Ps: that joke was rather amusing.

3

I would just pretend it never happened. Like I deleted the message by accident or something. Sure, it’s really stupid of her to tell you a detail like that and be offended and all that, but I don’t think it’s any good to go around getting people in trouble. And I’m sure it would be a lot of trouble for her if more people found out. She must have been stressed out when she said it, it can be pretty hard being an immigrant(whether illegal or not).

Just let it slide.

4

My ip has been banned, but as someone ( I dont remember who ) mentioned, there is a panacea for this. I just change my ip. It’s simple. I haven’t done anything in the last couple days, so don’t be so uptight.

5

I suggest you report this to the police or whatever because as you said it is not right for them to live tax free and be offended blah blah blah

6

The problem might arise that she can’t let it go and makes a stink about it. If I’m caught withholding information, can I be in trouble for it?

7

I’m a white American and I find that joke offensive. Why because it’s layered with ignorance.

Illegal immigration seems to be another issue you are willfully ignorant on.

Mainly that many undocumented workers do pay taxes, either through an EIN or a fake SSN. Having paid taxes while they live here helps their case in future citizenship possibilities.

Also the U.S. Military does recruit in Mexico and offers a possibility of citizenship after their term of service. They are given no guarantee though when they get back they will be granted the opportunity to become citizens.

It’s mainly Hispanics that are the illegal immigrants because our immigration policies for people from other countries is much more lenient.

The problems of illegal immigration that you mention don’t actually stem from the fact that they are here, but from the fact that they are illegal.

If an undocumented person is working in this country on the books taxes are being withheld from his paycheck. If he is working under the table, the business or individual who he is working for cannot legally deduct these wages for tax purposes and therefor the money that is being paid out is coming out of the profits of the company. The company profits are going to be taxed at a much higher rate than the wages of someone making less than minimum wage. So even if the person isn’t paying taxes directly, taxes are being paid on behalf of their working in this country. That is of course unless the company is cheating on their taxes which is probably the case, but the worker can’t really be blamed for the company breaking the law.

Again your willful ignorance of the subject you should be ashamed of.

8

I think it might be considered as hiding illegal immigrants, at a stretch…

9

  1. I considered the joke to be in poor taste, and not very humorous. The idea of military service as a way to become a citizen is something that might be favorable, especially when we have an unpopular war going on. But doing this alone would not change anything at the border. Same incentives to cross, same # will cross unless enforcement changes.

  2. You did mention hispanic, as the joke said “border.” Though it could be Canada, we don’t really have a problem up there.

  3. She did not mention any names, just “many members of her family” so you don’t know who. By saying this she did not imply that she approves of the practice either, just that she felt offended, which is her perogative.

Just dropping it seems like the best course of action. I’m surprised you would not think that joke annoying to hispanic people. Same idea as a joke that somehow pokes fun at the Holocaust. If you have any Jewish co-workers, there’s a chance they lost direct family members in that.

10

I pretty much agree with your feelings and actions in this scenario to the letter. Good call apologizing, although I also fail to see what was so offensive to her personally.

I too am offended that she is offended. Illegal immigrants get deported, that’s just how it works. If you had said, “thieves should go to jail,” she would have no right to be offended regardless of any relations that may be thieves.

Edit: I disagree with everything Foss said, to the letter.

11

Bruce, I am really missing the posts about you stopping to help strangers, pointing out the good deeds of others, or even the ones about your children’s prowess at sports and academics. These recent ones are making me very sad.

12

I’m with you here. I may not agree with 100% of the U.S.'s immigration policies, but putting that aside, she has no right to lambast you for looking down your nose at illegal activity. To draw a parallel, it’d be as if she was insulted by you scolding her for driving into work in a drunken state.

She or her family has done something illegal, and they have yet to be held accoutable for their actions. Someone SHOULD be calling her out, but I realize one must tiptoe around his workplace for reasons of self-preservation.

I’d say find an anonymous tip line, call 'em and report the b*tch. Yeah, I know, the Lord sayeth “vengance is mine”, but the Lord is slow to act many times. How dare she challenge a Yooper!

13

i agree with foss

14

If she is in fact illegal herself, your company hired her, so they are breaking the law as well. Be sure to report the company as well.

15

Woah, let’s calm down there. Firstly, there are many legal reasons why you must tiptoe around the workplace. I’m sure it differs from state to state, but California has loads of workplace rules/laws on harassment and inappropriate behavior. So some degree of tiptoeing is prudent.

Secondly the discussion seems to be turning gradually away from the original infraction and toward a comment made by the person who shares my tastes, and found the joke to be offensive. She didn’t say she was illegal (why would she). It could be the rest of her immeidate family she was talking about, or a few cousins that work on farms in California. You don’t know. Some people have really big families.

If you want, you could have your HR department (or equivalent) check up on this woman to see if she’s really a citizen. Of course they may resist, because to find out would mean they didn’t do their job when hiring her. But if she’s not a citizen herself, I highly doubt she would have mentioned anything. With luck, this will go away, or already has. If she makes a big deal out of it, you could face some sort of reprimand for using the company email system to distribute “something bad.”

Obie, you liked the joke? Honestly, I’m a big fan of George Carlin and have even seen him live in concert. But that joke loses a lot without the delivery. Plus some of George Carlin’s material is supposed to be offensive. There’s a big difference between a joke in print and a joke delivered with all the timing and nuances of live speech. Plus the live version has no paper trail. :slight_smile:

16

Fixed.

The only ignorance that’s going on here is your inability to see Bruce’s point of view. You seem to have a very narrow, pessimistic view of the world, GuyIDon’tKnow, and you do a great job of imposing that view on every other poster on these boards.

Point us to the sections of code that call out Hispanics and then we can talk. Until then I’m going to assume you’re pulling more BS out of your ass, as you’ve done time and time again on these fora.

I’m surprised that you think that joke implies any person in particular. Your numbered “arguments” are self-contradicting. Were you trying to make a point or just stir the pot?

17

So you’re saying it’s inappropriate to take action on a co-worker who is suspected of engaging in an illegal activity?

18

He stated that illegals don’t pay taxes, many of them do. So to say that undocumented workers don’t pay taxes is an ignorant view.

Someone coming from Europe has a much easier time getting a work permit than someone from Central or South America. Someone from Cuba only has to set foot on American soil to be eligible for citizen. The rules vary by country of origin. The only Mexicans who are able to immigrate easily to this country are the college educated. Where this is written into the law or not it’s the reality of the situation.

19

i dont know why, but i find the word ignorant to be widely over used. kinda like the word ‘wicked’

20

You illustrate my point beautifully. Guy, have you been in college? If so, I’d have to assume you took a non-science major, 'cause you’d be nailed to the wall if you wrote any such thing in a scientific paper. You see, there are these things called “references” that give one’s argument credibility. So far, you have none. You might as well be posting in MR.