Idling

I have tried some to idle on my uni and am getting no where. I have a 24" and my
question is how much of a revolution should I go forward or back? I start
holding on to a fence with the pedals horizontal. It just doesn’t FEEL like it
will work at all. I end up leaning to one side or the other. How is this
supposed to work? This doesn’t seem much different than just trying to set there
balanced motionless.

Andy Arhelger andya5@aol.com

Re: Idling

Andya5@aol.com (Andy Arhelger) wrote:

>I have tried some to idle on my uni and am getting no where. I have a 24" and
>my question is how much of a revolution should I go forward or back? I start
>holding on to a fence with the pedals horizontal. It just doesn’t FEEL like it
>will work at all. I end up leaning to one side or the other. How is this
>supposed to work? This doesn’t seem much different than just trying to set
>there balanced motionless.

Andy, it sounds as though you are making a mistake common to riders who have
only heard about and not seen idling.

When Idling the wheel should rotate around (about) one half revolution.
Switching from pedals horizontal, right foot forward to pedals horizontal, right
foot backwards. Your strong foot does most of the power work while the other
foot is mostly aiding in control.

When you start out you’ve got to be prepaired to twist lots to stop yourself
falling sideways as you idle. As you improve you’ll learn to use your arms and
upper body to reduce the twisting to a minimum.

For forward-backward control you have to leave your centre of gravity prety
much in one spot and push the wheel forward and backward centred on that spot.
ie. when you pedal forward half a revolution the wheel should move from a
position behind you to right under you then to a position in front of you,
leaving you leaning backwards. Catch yourself by pedaling backwards through to
leaning forward again, etc. Hmm that sounds a little complicated to follow but
if your paying attention and concentrating properly I hope you’ll find it makes
some sence.

As with normal riding, look ahead and keep as tall as you can.

Mark

Mark Sands o o o E-mail M.R.Sands@iasos.utas.edu.au o o IASOS/CRC Ph: +61 20
2941 Fax: +61 20 2973 ------------------------------------------------ o
Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies o @_/ CRC for Antarctic and
Southern Ocean Environment /|
#
/
** **

Re: Idling

>M.R.Sands@iasos.utas.edu.au wrote:
>> When Idling the wheel should rotate around (about) one half revolution.
>> Switching from pedals horizontal, right foot forward to pedals horizontal,
>> right foot backwards. Your strong foot does most of the power work while the
>> other foot is mostly aiding in control.
>
>Hmm. I very rarely rotate that far.
>
>Normally, I’ll start with the dominant pedal down, and rock about 1/8 turn each
>way. That’s a 1/4 in total. Sometimes it will be slightly more/less, but never
>round to horizontal pedals, as that feels as if I’m about to start going
>forwards/backwards.

Thank’s for reminding me, I was going to add as a note that I never rotate all
of a half revolution. More like a 1/4. I seem to remember reading somewhere that
a proper idle should be half a revolution (I think it was an official
descrciption of the trick for the unicycling levels). Is this right? Mark Sands
o o o E-mail M.R.Sands@iasos.utas.edu.au o o IASOS/CRC Ph: +61 20 2941 Fax: +61
20 2973 ------------------------------------------------ o Institute of
Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies o @_/ CRC for Antarctic and Southern Ocean
Environment /|
#
/
** **

Re: idling

>I’m not making much progress on idling. I think this is due to a fear of
>falling backwards. Any advice on how to overcome this, preferably without
>falling backwards repeatedly?

The basic motion of idling shouldn’t be scary. It’s possible your idles are too
big. Stop the pedals before they reach the horizontal position in each
direction. If you are comfortable with it, you can go as little as 45 degrees
from vertical in each direction, or less.

This should be done while holding onto a fence, a wall, or somebody else’s car.
A fence is best, because you can grab onto it if necessary. The bottom foot
should be doing almost all of the work, giving the pedal enough of a push each
time for the wheel to get all the way where you want it to go. Try lightening up
the pressure with your top (non-dominant) foot. Hold on tight to the fence if
necessary. If you are doing all of this, you should be in very solid control of
your movements and there should be no fear.

Practice with each foot in the dominant position. Idling is a skill that should
definitely be learned with both feet, but not necessarily at the same time.

When you start to feel comfortable idling, start loosening your grip on the
wall, and letting go. Relax, and give yourself time. The other way to introduce
yourself to the idling motion is to ride forward, stop, make about
1/2 revolution backward, and ride forward again. This is a little more scary
because until now, you have always been falling forward and riding into the
fall (riding forward). When you stop, you don’t know which way you will start
to fall (without practice), so do it next to the fence again, but only grab on
if you have to.

Also, make sure your seat is not too low. If your knees are excessively bent,
idling and stopping are a lot harder than simply riding forward.

Try these things and report back. Good luck!

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone unicycle@aol.com

Re: idling

In a message dated 96-06-05 14:07:57 EDT, you write:

>Idling has an even count (back-forth) but the juggling has an odd count (3
>throws per cycle). The trick is to get the idling rhythm synched to the
>juggling rhythm. I suggest you start with a fairly slow juggling rhythm; ie
>higher/wider pattern and adjust the idling rhythm to it. It seems like I always
>catch a ball at each end of the idle just before I reverse direction.

Juggling can also be thought of as having an even count. The left hand throws,
then the right hand. Repeat. It’s as simple as that! Of course juggling while
idling is not so simple.

Another practice method is to cross your arms tightly around your body, or put
your hands in your back pockets; all to limit upper body motion. Transfer all
this energy to the hips, so your arms are free for juggling.

John Foss former instructor, National Circus Project unicycle@aol.com soon to
officially be unifoss@calweb.com

RE: Idling

Here’s my 2 cents worth…

What helped me in learning was realizing that you must move your feet alot to
learn. I originally was under the impression that it took short strokes (a
“stroke” being How much the wheel/your pedals turn). After not getting anywhere
with that, I started trying wider strokes. This is eventually how i learned.

Another thing that helped me prepare was to go half a turn, pause for a second,
then go another half turn in the same direction, etc. Continue doing this until
you can do it smoothly. After that comes easy, reverse your direction every so
often. Before long, you’ll get the feel of idling. Hope all that makes sense.

Hugh

-----Original Message----- From: John Q
[mailto:Trentar.hotmail.com@clark.pathlink.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999
1:52 PM To: unicycling@winternet.com Subject: Idling

I’ve been unicycling for about 7 months and am having trouble learning to
idle.What is the best way to put your feet/weight on the pedals, etc. Any advice
would be great. Thanks. -JohnQ

RE: Idling

Hi John, I learned to idle this year as well. I practiced up next to a wall
which seemed to help with not having to dismount so very often. I also practice
riding backwards at the same time. It seemed that both skills took hold at the
same time.

Good Luck. I have found that idling makes it much easier to ride in semi-crowded
areas which is great for touring a new city on your uni.

> -----Original Message----- From: John Q
> [SMTP:Trentar.hotmail.com@clark.pathlink.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999
> 10:52 AM To: unicycling@winternet.com Subject: Idling
>
> I’ve been unicycling for about 7 months and am having trouble learning to
> idle.What is the best way to put your feet/weight on the pedals, etc. Any
> advice would be great. Thanks. -JohnQ

RE: Idling

> What’s the best way to learn to Idle? Should the pedals be horizontal or
> should your dominate foot be down and rock through the 6:00 o’clock position?

Dominant foot down. Once you get comfortable doing it, learn it with the other
foot to even out your skills and make you a more flexible rider.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

“Matter matters” - Mike Anderson (of Anderson Solone Inc.)

Re: Idling

M.R.Sands@iasos.utas.edu.au wrote:
> When Idling the wheel should rotate around (about) one half revolution.
> Switching from pedals horizontal, right foot forward to pedals horizontal,
> right foot backwards. Your strong foot does most of the power work while the
> other foot is mostly aiding in control.

Hmm. I very rarely rotate that far.

Normally, I’ll start with the dominant pedal down, and rock about 1/8 turn each
way. That’s a 1/4 in total. Sometimes it will be slightly more/less, but never
round to horizontal pedals, as that feels as if I’m about to start going
forwards/backwards.

Ed


Julian Edwards, Internet Systems Ltd. Woking, Surrey, UK. Internet:
wjedwd@isl.com (preferred) or julian.edwards@isl.com (MSMAIL, aagh)

Huby (n): A half-erection large enough to be a publicly embarrassing bulge in
the trousers, but not large enough to be of use to anybody.

Re: idling

Unicycle@aol.com wrote:
: >I’m not making much progress on idling. I think this is due to a fear of
: >falling backwards.

I learned to idle by trying to learn to freemount in my living-room (which
is small). I think a fear of falling on anything led to my ability to
hover in one spot.

I think that if you have a fear of falling off your luni then there is another
level of ‘enlightenment’ for want of a better word that you can attain. This is
where your brain does not consider the possibility of falling off in an
uncontrolled manner. It’s like one level up from when you stop fighting the urge
to put your foot down instead of pedal quicker when you fall forwards.

hope this helps!


Steve Carter, shc103@york.ac.uk, http://www.york.ac.uk/~shc103

E_shoot me down if I tell a lie!

Re: idling

Oh, so that’s what you mean, Idling is rocking…

I found the best way to learn to rock was to start off by putting a stop into
your normal riding then carrying on as if it hadn’t happened, then as you gat
used to controling it you can move on to two rocks then off and so on. After a
while you’ll be able to stop rock for as long as you want and then start off.

You can use this to help you in going backwards by stopping and doing extended
rocks of one whole revolution then continuing in the same way you did when
learning rocking.

(Thanx Duncan)

Ewan…

///////////////////////\ Balls-up! : Homepage at :
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~njugsoc/ E-mail on : balls@ncl.ac.uk Juggle on :
forever… ///////////////////////

Re: idling

On Wed, 12 Jun 1996 Unicycle@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-06-05 14:07:57 EDT, you write:
>
> >Idling has an even count (back-forth) but the juggling has an odd count (3
> >throws per cycle). The trick is to get the idling rhythm synched to the
> >juggling rhythm. I suggest you start with a fairly slow juggling rhythm; ie
> >higher/wider pattern and adjust the idling rhythm to it. It seems like I
> >always catch a ball at each end of the idle just before I reverse direction.
>
> Juggling can also be thought of as having an even count. The left hand throws,
> then the right hand. Repeat. It’s as simple as that! Of course juggling while
> idling is not so simple.
[…]
> John Foss

If you do as John suggests, and think of juggling as being period 2 (ie throw
every time you do a ‘half-idle’) then, in fact, in reality, the pattern still
only repeats exactly (including balance-wise) every 3 ‘beats’, while rocking
does so every 2, so

Time period of juggling = 3 of rocking = 2 frequency of juggling = 1/3 " "
rocking = 1/2
1/2 - 1/3 = 1/6 = ‘beat frequency’ (different sort of beat - I mean the
frequency with which the two cycles go in and out of reinforcing each other so
beat time period = 6 ie:

121212121212121212 rocking 123123123123123123 juggling ^ this is where the whole
lot (juggling + rocking) repeats itself. So every six rocks you’ll start again,
if you juggle at the same rate as you rock. If you don’t, then I dunno.

Of course, this wouldn’t matter if you were doing three in one hand(!).

I’m not actually sure what I do when I juggle whilst idling - I think I just
throw them just any old time - probably not good advice.

Maybe this helps. On the other hand, maybe it doesn’t

John


Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

Re: idling

John J Lee (jjl101@york.ac.uk) wrote:

[SNIP]

i: If you do as John suggests, and think of juggling as being period 2 (ie throw[/i]
i: every time you do a ‘half-idle’) then, in fact, in reality, the pattern still[/i]
i: only repeats exactly (including balance-wise) every 3 ‘beats’, while rocking[/i]
i: does so every 2, so[/i]

i: Time period of juggling = 3 of rocking = 2 frequency of juggling = 1/3 " "[/i]
i: rocking = 1/2[/i]
i: 1/2 - 1/3 = 1/6 = ‘beat frequency’ (different sort of beat - I mean the[/i]
i: frequency with which the two cycles go in and out of reinforcing each other[/i]
i: so beat time period = 6 ie:[/i]

i: 121212121212121212 rocking 123123123123123123 juggling ^ this is where the[/i]
i: whole lot (juggling + rocking) repeats itself. So every six rocks you’ll start[/i]
i: again, if you juggle at the same rate as you rock. If you don’t, then I dunno.[/i]

i: Of course, this wouldn’t matter if you were doing three in one hand(!).[/i]

i: I’m not actually sure what I do when I juggle whilst idling - I think I just[/i]
i: throw them just any old time - probably not good advice.[/i]

i: Maybe this helps. On the other hand, maybe it doesn’t[/i]

What are you talking about…? Juggling isn’t 123123123123 it is LRLRLRLR
which has a one-to-one correspondence with 12121212 or FBFBFBFB (forward back)
If you must rock in time then F B F B F B rocking LRLRLRLRLRL juggling is
easier, but it is much easier to separate the two actions so that they don’t
interfere with each other; rocking/juggling in time means that a correction to
rocking results in connected change in hand movement and vica-versa thus
upsetting you pattern or ballance respectively. Solution: Rock as slowly and
comfortably as possible, then put the juggling in more quickly over the
top—perhaps after practising the brilliant idea of unicycling in a
straight-jacket as suggested by John Foss.

Paul

PS if you want to do Fourier-analysis in your head before trying this then be my
guest, but let us all know if it works!


o o_M_o A Self portrait! (I forgot the Hockey stick!) ‘/’ o - o Stay On Top
and J U G G L E! 40 Throws of 5 on the Yike! /|/ _| << _| Leeds
Unicycle-Hockey Club British Champions 1995.
| |
O
|© 1994-96 The Man with the Hat! Enterprise. Ltd. _|

Re: idling … NOT!

I just bumped into Paul, who pointed out what crap I have been talking. Sorry
about my newsreader mangling the message (yes Paul it is pine)

On 13 Jun 1996, The Man with The Hat [Paul Gibbs] wrote:

> John J Lee (jjl101@york.ac.uk) wrote: […]
> : 121212121212121212 rocking
> : 123123123123123123 juggling
> : ^
>
: this is where the
whole lot (juggling + rocking) repeats itself. > : So every six rocks you’ll
start again, if you juggle at the same rate as > : you rock. If you don’t, then
I dunno. > > : Of course, this wouldn’t matter if you were doing three in one
hand(!). > > : I’m not actually sure what I do when I juggle whilst idling - I
think I > : just throw them just any old time - probably not good advice. > > :
Maybe this helps. On the other hand, maybe it doesn’t > > : John >
> What are you talking about…? >
Juggling isn’t 123123123123 it is LRLRLRLR which has a one-to-one […]

Oops. D’Oh! And lots of other little words like that. I got confused - yes, the
juggling is only 12… ie ‘time period’ 2, not 3. Well, maybe if you were doing a
siteswap, like … but you’re not, so I can’t get away with it like that.

Anyway, the whole thing was based on juggling at the same speed as rocking, one
half-rock per throw, which is, as you say, and as I say, not the case. All that
stuff I wrote while waiting for the tumble-drier is in fact not complete
8-letter organs. You do still get (er… I think) a longer time for the whole
juggle-and-rock thing to repeat when you’re juggling and rocking at different
rates. So either you totally ignore it like me (like I said, I think this is
what I do), or you try to line them up a bit and get some repeating pattern
which may help but, presumably, messes you up more if you have to move away from
that pattern

  • like if some kid comes up and gives you a kick in the knee.

It’s similar to the asynch five ball ‘pattern’ with three in your right and two
in your left - you can independently do both, or - hey, hang on a moment, this
is exactly what I was talking about before - only this time I’m right! If you
throw at the same rate from your right and left hands, you get the thing I was
talking about.

> PS if you want to do Fourier-analysis in your head before trying this then

Er, no Paul, I don’t.

John

Please engage brain before putting voice-box into gear.


Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

Re: idling

In article <4ppqls$6dj@netty.york.ac.uk>, The Man with The Hat
<pag100@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>If you must rock in time then F B F B F B rocking LRLRLRLRLRL juggling is
>easier, but it is much easier to separate the two actions so that they don’t
>interfere with each other; rocking/juggling in time means that a correction to
>rocking results in connected change in hand movement and vica-versa thus
>upsetting you pattern or ballance respectively.

In my experience, dominant foot does not relate in any reasonable way to right
or left-handedness. So that could be F B F B F B RLRLRLRLRLR as well… depends.

Personnally, as I am a sided-person, using this kind of rythm does NOT work at
all. My dominant foot is quite dominant, as is my dominant hand. Comparing my
juggling speed and my idling skills, I indeed tend to go F B F B F B
RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL which sorts of balance the whole act. I tend to juggle
reasonably fast naturally, which is not a problem for this kind of thing as I
know I don’t want to throw the clubs that far and that high… Usually, I can
keep up to thirty throws, after that I get tired/out of synch and fall back on
an `easier’ 12 pattern which is only easier for my mind, as the whole balancing
act does NOT work.

[nosave]http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espie/index.html microsoft network
is EXPLICITLY forbidden to redistribute this message. `Seiza no matataki kazoe,
uranau koi no yuku e.’ Marc Espie (Marc.Espie@ens.fr)

Re: idling … NOT!

heres the pattern i use when jugling 101010101000011111010000111111110000110111-
01110101000001001111000000011101000001111100000000000000001111111 oops, thats
binary. sorry

On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, John J Lee wrote:

>
> I just bumped into Paul, who pointed out what crap I have been talking. Sorry
> about my newsreader mangling the message (yes Paul it is pine)
>
> On 13 Jun 1996, The Man with The Hat [Paul Gibbs] wrote:
>
> > John J Lee (jjl101@york.ac.uk) wrote: […]
> > : 121212121212121212 rocking
> > : 123123123123123123 juggling
> > : ^
> >
> : this is where the
> whole lot (juggling + rocking) repeats itself. > : So every six rocks you’ll
> start again, if you juggle at the same rate as > : you rock. If you don’t,
> then I dunno. > > : Of course, this wouldn’t matter if you were doing three in
> one hand(!). > > : I’m not actually sure what I do when I juggle whilst idling
> - I think I > : just throw them just any old time - probably not good advice.
> > > : Maybe this helps. On the other hand, maybe it doesn’t > > : John >
> > What are you talking about…? >
> Juggling isn’t 123123123123 it is LRLRLRLR which has a one-to-one […]
>
> Oops. D’Oh! And lots of other little words like that. I got confused - yes,
> the juggling is only 12… ie ‘time period’ 2, not 3. Well, maybe if you
> were doing a siteswap, like … but you’re not, so I can’t get away with it
> like that.
>
> Anyway, the whole thing was based on juggling at the same speed as rocking,
> one half-rock per throw, which is, as you say, and as I say, not the case. All
> that stuff I wrote while waiting for the tumble-drier is in fact not complete
> 8-letter organs. You do still get (er… I think) a longer time for the whole
> juggle-and-rock thing to repeat when you’re juggling and rocking at different
> rates. So either you totally ignore it like me (like I said, I think this is
> what I do), or you try to line them up a bit and get some repeating pattern
> which may help but, presumably, messes you up more if you have to move away
> from that pattern
> - like if some kid comes up and gives you a kick in the knee.
>
> It’s similar to the asynch five ball ‘pattern’ with three in your right and
> two in your left - you can independently do both, or - hey, hang on a moment,
> this is exactly what I was talking about before - only this time I’m right!
> If you throw at the same rate from your right and left hands, you get the
> thing I was talking about.
>
> > PS if you want to do Fourier-analysis in your head before trying this then
>
> Er, no Paul, I don’t.
>
> John
>
> Please engage brain before putting voice-box into gear.
>
> –
> Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
>