I fought the law and... well, it was a bit of a tie

I reckon that taking an unauthorised vehicle (i.e. a vehicle for which there is no legislation), onto a public bicycle path, is illegal. If it were to go to court it could become a test case in law. If the unicyclist were to lose, then all unicyclists would be marginalised.

Is that what you want??

Well, is it ???

The last time I’ve been to the US (I’ve been there 4 times this year) it was illegal to walk/drive/ride through red lights, with any means of transport. Did that change recently?

Speak for yourself- I’m a unicyclist and I’m quite glad if someone takes on misuse of rules/regulations by sueing any ‘authorities’ who attempt to misuse their positions.

As for that cop harassing future unicyclists because she misidentifies them as being David_stone- I’m staggered that you would identifiy that as being Davids responsibility- it would be a clear case of a cop behaving wrongly if it were to happen.

And equally, if the unicyclist were to win, then that would also become a test case, where all unicyclists would become that little big free-er of harassment/marginalisation.

The chance to win is pretty small. Let’s check the facts:

  • someone rides a unicycle, which may be an issue on its own - depending on the law and on the judge.
  • that person rides through a red light, which is a clear violation of traffic laws.
  • he refuses to stop when the cop asks him to do so, but is running from the police.
    So how exactly can the unicyclist win this case? By convincing the jury that common traffic laws do not apply to unicyclists, unicyclist do not have to obey orders of cops, and traffic lights had been set up for mere entertainment? As said, the chances for that are not too good.

Dude- I was replying to the actual post i.e.-

Which didn’t mention anything about red lights, but instead seemed to be talking about a unicyclist taking their ‘unauthorised’ vehicle onto a bike path.

I reckon if they were taken to court for riding an ‘unathorised vehicle’ (a unicycle) onto a bike path, then they’d have a very good chance of winning :slight_smile:

Very simple: if you want to be treated like you’re using a legitimate vehicle, behave like you are; if you want to be treated like a cyclist, behave like one; if you want to be treated like an arrogant yob…

Just because something isn’t specifically banned, it doesn’t mean it is specifically allowed. Try walking through the same park with a chainsaw running in your hand, then when you get stopped for carrying an offensive weapon, ask where it mentions chainsaws.

I am sick to death of the various sports and activities that I take part in getting a bad name and provoking hostility because of the actions of an irresponsible few who think that the law doesn’t apply to them, and if it does, it is nothing more than a series of technical arguments to be won or lost.

It’s all about courtesy and a sense of responsibility. As a motorist and motorcyclist, I have been stopped by the police a few times. I have found that being polite, listening to their point of view and putting my own view calmly but courteously usually does the job - unless of course I have been obviously breaking the law. Even then, I have escaped with a polite warning - once for speeding in the car, once for a faulty rear light on the motorbike, once for cutting across a pavement on the bicycle.

The law may not mention unicycles anywhere. It does mention things such as committing a breach of the peace, endangering other road users, failure to stop at traffic signals and so on. In many jurisdictions, it is an offence not to stop when instructed to do so by a police officer.

Chances are, the cop had never seen a unicycle being ridden before, other than in a performance context. To the uninitiated, it looks dangerous. It looks like it may endanger pedestrians or other road users.

However, if you are wearing the kit, riding safely, giving clear hand signals, and if you stop, listen, explain, and if necessary defer, there is one cop who goes back to the police station with a better view of unicyclists, and a funny story to tell his or her colleagues.

Fight with a cop and, because they are human, they will fight back with everything they have at their disposal. Push someone and they will push you back.

Personally, I don’t think that pleading that it is difficult to stop is a convincing argument that what I am doing is safe.

Response to One wheel Dave

My post which you’ve quoted was a response to David Stone’s claim that he “wasn’t actually doing anything illegal”. I wasn’t making an objective statement as you claim. I was making a subjective statement in response to David’s post and my remarks referred to him being in court arguing his case. In such a scenario his disregard for the law and the police force would be taken into account and he would lose. I mentioned an additional point of law for David to consider and the implications for other unicyclists if it were to be enforced. I didn’t mention the red lights because David seemed to think that there were no laws for unicyclists in NYC when he said that “unicycling isn’t mentioned in any NYC laws” You can see that I’m referring to a case involving David, when I ask him, “is that what you want”.
When reading posts in this forum, you really need to read them in context otherwise each poster would have to repeat all the points made in previous posts, which isn’t practical.

Hope this gives you some clarity.

+1. Well said Mikefule. What you say here, makes sense.

the STEP vehicle (and the company it is registered to) actually got the ticket, not your nephew. If the company chooses to fight the ticket, they can send one of their employees to court on company time to plead the company’s case.

In Utah, as long as you wait ~90 seconds, you’re good to go regardless of light color.

Text:

(7) (a) Until July 1, 2014, and for an operator of a motorcycle, moped, or bicycle who is 16 years of age or older, it is an affirmative defense to a violation of Subsection (4)(a) if the operator of a motorcycle, moped, or bicycle facing a steady circular red signal or red arrow:

(i) brings the motorcycle, moped, or bicycle to a complete stop at the intersection or stop line;

(ii) determines that:

(A) the traffic-control signal has not detected the operator’s presence by waiting a reasonable period of time of not less than 90 seconds at the intersection or stop line before entering the intersection;

(B) no other vehicle that is entitled to have the right-of-way under applicable law is sitting at, traveling through, or approaching the intersection; and

© no pedestrians are attempting to cross at or near the intersection in the direction of travel of the operator; and

(iii) cautiously enters the intersection and proceeds across the roadway.

(b) The affirmative defense under this section does not apply at an active railroad grade crossing as defined in Section 41-6a-1005

So you still need to stop for a sec, but you don’t need to ‘Stop’.

I think if a person identifies themselves as a cop, and wants you to stop, you should; no matter what the circumstances.

However, for those busting your balls about running a red light, I’d cut you some slack. I don’t go through lights much, but I hardly ever stop at stop signs. I just try to time my approach with the traffic and then buzz right through.

But I’m probably wrong…

The law, like sports, begins with arbitrary rules that lead to technical arguments. Must wear a helmet (or not), may or may not use alcohol, marijuana, prostitutes, all of which are legal in some places for adults and illegal in other places for everyone. In baseball, what constitutes a strike zone, three strikes makes an out, 4 balls makes a walk, steroids to heal an injury is legal but to enhance performance is illegal, all arbitrary and changeable.

Sports rules are not necessarily based on player safety, as many contact sports are very dangerous and legal. Once the law is in place, that becomes an element in a technical (or logical) argument.

David: I liked reading this story. I was wishing there was a video that went along with it while I read the story with maybe a soundtrack also. I have enough imagination to create a visual in my mind’s eye that after some reflection, I liked your post even better.

The part about hearing footsteps running after you, then realizing you were mid-faceplant, because they were your own feet…just perfect.

I understand the thought process that traffic signals are more of an “advisory” when going 16 MPH on a 36" unicycle, but have no expectation this will repel the consequences of my actions when the arm of the law sets in motion to reign in the interlopers of the of the boundaries real and imagined, just or unjustly subject to personal interpretations.

Of course, being a straight arrow I understand Mike Fule’s POV and wish that the adults in my life growing up were more like Mike Fule and could illucidate their values so concisely yet temper their words with kindness and moderation.

All that aside, thanks for sharing your story and… Let’s ride! Woohoo! Ride it like we stole it!

It’s been fun to read all of these responses, some vitriolic and most more tempered or just downright friendly (those have mainly been from people who know me).

Basically, here’s what I’ve taken away so far, plus some notes:

  1. While unicycling may not be regulated by the law, red lights are intended to stop everyone regardless of conveyance.

Note: Yeah, that makes sense. But red lights in Central Park are almost completely pointless; they should all be flashing yellows. Basically they’re there to help pedestrians, but at certain times, there are almost NO PEDESTRIANS. This means that they are actually doing a disservice because they’re (possibly) giving the few pedestrians there a sense of security. Anyone who crosses this bike path really has to be aware of bikers (and even police on motorcycles, who routinely and illegally ride thru lights for no good reason at all). The unwritten rules of this park have always been ‘walker beware’ because people

I did my best to convey the situation, but it’s really hard because of context (see the above note). On the average non-rainy day, I’d guess that there are well over 10,000 bike riders who use the Central Park bike loop. Perhaps 5% of them actually stop at lights (probably fewer). Virtually all pedestrians are a

  1. I’m going to get the laws changed, hurting unicyclists.

Note: Nope. It didn’t happen after (or during) Kyle’s lawsuit; it certainly isn’t going to happen because of me.

  1. I’m giving unicyclists a bad name.

Note: For the most part, I’m giving us a great name. I’m out there about 15 hours a week. Most people experience me as a guy getting exercise on a huge unicycle; I get a lot of positive feedback. On balance (haha), I’m not hurting the sport of unicycling.

  1. What I’m doing is dangerous to others.

Note: I’ve been riding 33 years, and the only person I’ve ever hurt while riding was myself. I’m well aware of the importance of slowing down when necessary. There are places in the Park where lights are just 100 yards apart and occur on long, gentle, straight downhills. If I see that I can easily ride safely thru the lights when they turn red, I’ll do that. I never stop at these lights, but I am prepared to hop off (or crash into a tree on the side) rather than hurt a pedestrian. It’s just that it’s never happened. So I must know what I’m doing to a large extent.

  1. Some of you appreciate my writing.

Note: Thanks; I really enjoy writing almost as much as I enjoy riding.

Amen to that.

Oh, and for the record, thanks for choosing such a clever thread title. Thanks to you I’ve had the same stupid song stuck in my head for the last few days…

1 Like

On a more serious note, do you now get to have a little sticker of a cop with a line through it (much like the war time pilots had for each downed plane…they obviously had planes and things, not cops)?
If so I look forward to your next ‘Picture of your latest ride’ brandishing said sticker…

UL
PS, you’re (or someone like you) a very naughty boy.

Thanks. I’d be up to three, I believe.

The Central Park loop is 6.2 miles long with, -I read somewhere- 41 traffic lights. Almost none of them are at intersections, and only a few even have significant pedestrian cross-traffic when the weather is nice. To me, David’s estimate that 5% of cyclists stop for the traffic lights in Central Park actually sounds pretty high! Joggers don’t stop for those traffic lights either, -which technically is also illegal. Enforcement of Central Park traffic lights for cyclists is an excellent opportunity for municipal fund raising, but it has little to do with safety. This enforcement, as far as I know, is a very new phenomenon, one of the more recent additions to the current law-and-order campaign in New York, which is of unprecedented magnitude.

Extreme enforcement of petty infractions is a normal characteristic of societies with severe economic inequality. New York City has 50,000 people living in homeless shelters, and a mayor whose net worth is now around $27 billion (up from $4 billion when he took office). His police force -which he has called his own army- has carried out 5 million stop-and-frisks in that same period. I’m no legal expert, but be careful what you do on your uni, and be careful what you say on the Internet.

That’s correct. So hmmm. Which employee would be best-equipped to describe the situation and defend the actions of the driver? He’s a salaried employee anyway. It’s a suckky situation for him and STEP, but he really is the best man for that job. The stupidest part was that if he had instead decided to block the pick-up/drop-off loop by double-parking there, at worst he may have gotten yelled at.

Yup. Everybody who has never unicycled through a red light please raise your hand. Let’s narrow it down and make that a red light on a bike path. :slight_smile: Stop signs would probably eliminate each and every one of us.

The park? Don’t you mean all of the New York metropolitan area, at least? For someone who grew up in Northern California, for example, where cars are pretty good at stopping for painted crosswalks, NYC can seem like a savage death trap. Not so much; just different “traffic culture”. I find driving a car in Manhattan to be really fun. Especially if it’s not my car. :smiley:

Since you got away, no court! No laws are likely to be changed as a result of your actions. You did what the bikes did. Like any law, if you want people to obey it, you need to enforce it a certain amount, and evenly.

BTW, I doubt that I would have had the balls to run from a cop in a motor vehicle. But my mind-set might be different if I rode in that city all the time. I only lived in New York’s suburbs, and occasionally ventured into The City.

I agree. I also like to set a positive example, at least when I’m not blowing the occasional stop sign (like all the bikes). I also use a heavily trafficked bike path for most of my riding. I try to set a positive example of a safe, polite person who is crusing at the speed limit (occasionally a little over it, but who’s doing radar?) on a cool, cool unicycle. We also set the example that what we are doing is (totally) doable.

Please continue doing both. Without the riding, the writing would get stale and old, and tend to turn into taller and taller tales. Remember the one about the unicyclist who was talking on the cell phone with one hand, and eating sushi with the other? That was a classic!