I would like to hear what everyone’s opinion is on today’s standings in Iraq. In this forum we have people from all around the world, and I would like to know how everyone sees Iraq today. I won’t say anything more so I will not steer anyone to any kind of response other than the one I’d like to: how do you feel about what has become of Iraq?
If you like to be lied to by the people in power to lead us in to a reall mess that kills not only our kids but thousands of other innocent people with no say in the matter, then the Iraq conflict is great!
If you have any sense of morality and logic(like i hope I do) then it really sucks big. The guy who wasnt even elected president in the first place is evil and all his henchmen are right there.
Just my thoughts, but its so obviously and blatantly wrong that i registered to vote for the first time ever.
I, in no way, can say I know anything about anything except what i feel after reading/hearing the facts, and what i feel is that we are in big trouble for absolutely no reason at all. I take that back, someone has reasons…
I guess I lack morality and logic…
I was for the war and I am still for it, regardless of whether or not we find WMA’s. A dictator and genocide practicing maniac and his children have been removed from power.
I have great doubts that democracy will ever work in Iraq (hell it doesn’t even work here) but the removal of Saddam and his two son’s is reason enough for me to support the war.
BTW allie casualties are VERY low for war time efforts and the amount of force we have faced. More than 3 times the same amount of US soldiers died in one day in WWII than in this entire conflict to date.
The sad truth is that all of this would not of had to occur if the UN was actually functional and forcible.
I won’t go quite as far as banjo125, but I do not like the war.
In my view, we went to war before we were ready for motives that may not have been in line for the best interests of the countries involved. After initial victories, we found ourselves in a peace-keeping mission we weren’t prepared for, and our soldiers are now risking their lives for little or no gain.
We are in a situation where we need to bring our soldiers home, but that would be demorilizing for our nation. As it is an election year, the president’s re-election campaign cannot afford to damage our nation’s ego, so our troops keep dying with no opportunity to make progress.
None of this is spectaculary different than many other wars. I do not like what happened, but the world is not perfect, and I have to temper my idealism somewhat. Even so, things like the haliburton oil contract, military personel being used to disperse anti-war protests, and even things like “freedom fries” all strike me as worrisome, and I cannot support this war.
m2c,
Rob
What do I think? I think Iraq is much better off now then it was two years ago. If President Bush is evil, then what word could we use for Sadam? It is true that we are taking losses, and that is never easy, but no one ever said that war is bloodless.
That doesn’t mean that I like what’s going on. I wish this whole thing could just end. However, we must finish what we started. That means playing peace keeper until a new government could be established.
WMD: I believe that Iraq has or had them. Remember that just because we can’t find them doesn’t mean they don’t exsist.
Daniel.
"BTW allie casualties are VERY low for war time efforts and the amount of force we have faced. More than 3 times the same amount of US soldiers died in one day in WWII than in this entire conflict to date. " -ZOD-
Thats a nice way to look at it, but are we forgetting the tens of thousands of Innocent Iraqis(including women, children, the elderly) that are now dead and the countless others that will have to live thier lives without eyes, hands, feet?
At least soldiers when they sign up for active duty take the chance of being in combat, the civilians in Iraq did not have that choice.
BTW I am glad our casualties are very low considering, but for an unjust, invalid “war” 1 is too many, in my opinion.
I personally disagree with the war and how things have been carried out, but I think you’re forgetting about Saddam Hussein’s evil dictatorship. He killed thousands of his own citizens and would have killed more, if he had gotten the chance. I don’t think the civilians in Iraq chose to be oppressed by a vicious dictator either. I agree that Iraq is better off without him, and I agree that we have to finish what we started now. I just disagree with the reason we went to war in the first place.
I just realized that now that the Christianity topic has finally died down, someone has picked a new controversial topic to talk about. Cool!
I would like to know what the number of innocents killed really is banjo. It would be interesting to know how many the allies have killed compared to how many the Iraqi fighters have killed…the numbers might surprise you. We are not over there carpet bombing Iraq, so civilian causalties are bound to be low. Who has been killing civilians lately, it hasn’t been us, it’s been militia and terrorists. People die in war, both soldiers and innocents…war is Hell. I am sure more have died at the hands of Saddam by 10 fold and that is how I justify these things.
I bet we killed a lot of innocents in WWII and I am sure many people opposed our envolvement, but genocide should never be tolerated IMHO. Saddam should have been taken out of power a long time ago. I would have rather the UN did it, but I am glad the US and it’s allies stepped up to the plate and took on the ugly unpopular task.
BTW remember that the war being “unjust” and “invalid” is only your opinion.
If you didn’t vote before then you have no-one to blame for your current leader but yourself.
If it takes people with <ahem> “forthright views of the world” to get people to do their bit then maybe it’s been a good thing in the long run.
Phil
I stated before, I know nothing about nothing and it is my opinion.
Take a look at some other news sources besides the CNN’s and the FOX’s. I see things that would never have been even close to being shown to us. Informationclearinghouse is a good one. Search it on google.
I am not trying to make any enemies, the person who started the thread asked for opinions, and I gave mine. A lot of the points brought up are valid, IE Saddam was evil, I never said he was not. And we do have to finish what was started, but my main point I think is that it should never have happened. WMD’s or not GWB had a plan before he was NOT elected president.
I also feel if the people That represent us are not doing a fair job in anyones opinion, then it is our right as Americans, no, our obligation to dissent and demand to be represented in a fair and just way. To demand answers is not Un-American. Not that it matters but I was at all 3 marches in NYC(not to mention i saw some unis there too). I never saw so many people all together for the same cause, To stop the war. Anyway
Cheers
Banjo,
Keep saying your opinion! It’s good to have different views out there. And I’m glad you marched in those parades. And definitely vote in the election; if you feel so strongly about him then by all means vote against him. Our nation may not be perfect, but you do have the right to disagree and state it very bluntly.
I would like to hear from some people from outside of the U.S.
Just debating with you banjo, don’t think anything more than that of it…
Where’s the proof? Sounds like something you heard at one of these peace rallies…just b/c someone says so doesn’t validate it.
There are just as many people who support the war in the US, you simply don’t see us out in the streets…we have nothing to rally against, we stand behind our leaders. Rally on, have your marches, it’s the American way and I definitly support that! Open dissent is healthy and hopefully Iraqi’s will always have the same right to do so from now on thanks to their liberation.
What about the Cold War:D ?
Too bad the media doesn’t show us the improvements in the lives of Iraqi’s since the fall of Saddam. Too bad they don’t highlight nightly the good our soldiers have done over there during the peace keeping mission. Schools are being built, women have the right to do pretty much what they want(including vote). New hospitals, roads, schools etc… Less rape rooms, torture rooms, dying because you lost a soccer game. Imagine what would have happened to you if you tried riding a unicycle down the street during the reign of Saddam.
As for WMD’s Kerry said they had them, Clinton said they had them, even Ted Kennedy said that Iraq had them. Were they all lying to us? I am sure the WMD’s were there… probably in Syria or North Korea by now. If the UN would have enforced their own resolutions, the US would never have had to do anything. There are quite a few Iraqi’s living in the Atlanta area, and you will be hard pressed to find one that disagrees with what we are doing there and why we are doing it. They are ecstatic, and look forward to when they can return to their home.
Banjo, You obviously have a strong opinion about the war, as do a lot of people. I don’t think it is based in logic as you said. It was more of a emotional argument backed up with erroneous facts and suppositions. Nothing wrong with that, just realize that is what it is. Don’t throw numbers out to make your point when they have no basis in reality. It makes your argument look weak.
And when someone gives you more accurate numbers don’t use the argument that “Even one is too many” It makes your argument even weaker. Literally millions of Americans have lost their lives defending Freedom and I am honored that they thought enough of us to take that risk. I put it on the line to defend this country for 8 years. I would do it again. I want my children to grow up in a country that is free and safe like the one I grew up in.
It was right when George Bush went into Iraq the first time. It was right when Clinton used the military to keep Iraqi military out of the no fly zone(just didn’t go far enough) and it was right when George W Bush sent troops in their. Our soldiers should come home proud of their service and hold their heads high. What they have done is courageous and honorable. They did what you and others like you were unable or unwilling to do.
Just on more thing… This conflict, and the reconstruction of the country of Iraq is being held to a success standard that has never been done before. We were in Japan for 10 (still have bases) years, we are still in Korea over 40 years later. We are still in Germany. What makes anyone think we should be able to leave Iraq after one year? If we need to stay there 20 years to make this government work, we should stay there 20 years. We are americans, and we don’t back down just because it seems to hard.
If the press is not reporting these things, how do you know they’re happening? What is your source? Can you point us to something to back up your claims? I read the New York Times every weekday and the Asbury Park Press just about every day. Why exactly is it that I’m not seeing these things reported?
The administration has a large contingent of embedded reporters anxious to report exactly what it wants reported. I am incredulous that the Bush machine is unable to exploit all the good things happening in Iraq.
Please don’t repeat the line about the “liberal media” not wanting to make Bush look good. The media went along for the ride when Bush, Rumsfeld, and Powell were making up lies about Iraqi WMDs, nuclear materials purchases from Niger, and connections to Al Qaeda. Why now, if all these wonderful things are happening in Iraq, isn’t our government parading them before the press and the American people?
I don’t know when Kerry, Clinton, and Kennedy said the things that you’re referring to, but it is generally accepted that after the 1991 Iraq war, certainly by 1998, Iraq had very few if any WMDs. The people who the administration should have listened to who were in a position to know are the weapons inspectors and they said there were no WMDs and that certainly WMDs were no reason for the current military action.
It was Bush who gave the impression quite some time ago that military operations were over. It was Bush who said mission accomplished. It was Donald Rumsfeld who, against the advice of the administration’s own military advisors as well as numerous high ranking military commanders underestimated the number of troops necessary to execute this war and the occupation; and still do so to this day. Hell, they underestimated the need for bullets and there is now a situation in which the pentagon’s primary supplier of bullets, Alliant TechSystems, is 800,000,000 bullets shy of production capacity per year for the 2 billion per year estimated to be needed for the next 4 - 5 years. That is in the press. They’re scrambling to find alternate suppliers.
Yes, occupations take time. But this administration is bumbling just about every aspect.
And to answer the original question, I think this war is a disaster for Iraq and the United States. There are numerous ways Saddam Hussein could have been handled over the past 25 years, but having Donald Rumsfeld shake hands with him and supply him with WMDs to execute his war against Iran during the Reagan administration isn’t one them.
As for our own troops, I wish them all, each and every one, a safe return home as soon as possible.
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
First hand accounts from those who are there. Like everyone that is in the units I served with. They don’t ever get interviewed.
Keep fishing. I am sure there are just hundreds of Bush supporter reporters over there. All of their papers and news stations can’t wait to report good news. That’s what sells papers.
monday morning quarterbacks are always better at playing the game. That is why they are in the game. By historical standards this has been one of the most successful military campaigns ever. Not bad for a bunch of bumbling idiots.
We could have handled it like we did in Mogadishu.
I knew there had to be something that we agree on.
Also, where were all of you antiwar protesters when we went into Bosnia and Herzegovina?
While the jury is still out on this, your comments fail to sway me.
Again, I’m sorry, but you have to do better than the myth of the liberal press. And in any event as one who is repeatedly accused of hating America I must say that you seem to be saying that American’s only want bad news and would not welcome good news from Iraq. Do you think that badly of your countrymen and women?
This is plain insulting, but I forgive you. Can you provide details as to how this is a successful military campaign?
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
I never said the press was biased. I never even hinted toward it. As a matter of fact I made light of your accusation that the White House had biased reporters working on their behalf. If you insist that the Media is biased, I will have to agree. As for the mainstream media being liberal, its no myth. But I guess if you are a little left of them, it would seem like they are on the right.
In 1996, the Freedom Forum released a survey, conducted by the Roper Center, of 139 Washington news bureau chiefs and congressional correspondents. It revealed that 89 percent of Washington reporters responding said they voted for Bill Clinton in the 1992 presidential election compared to a mere 7 percent that voted for George Herbert Walker Bush.
Fifty percent said they were Democrats compared to a scant 4 percent who identified themselves as Republicans. Some 61 percent owned up to being “liberal” or “moderate to liberal” versus 9 percent who considered themselves “conservative” or “moderate to conservative.”
And those survey results were no aberration. Similar media polls have yielded similar results, including, notoriously, a straw poll of reporters covering George W. Bush’s first presidential campaign.
The poll was conducted by Alexandra Pelosi, an NBC producer at the time (who happens to be the daughter of Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the liberal San Francisco Democrat).
Of 31 reporters who responded to Pelosi’s straw poll – including representatives from such major publications as The Boston Globe and Newsweek – 26 thought that Al Gore would win the presidency. (And probably all hoped he’d win).
Of course, the correspondents, the reporters who cover politics for the news networks, for the major daily newspapers, insist that their party affiliation (or undeclared leanings), their political ideology has no effect whatsoever on their work.
They claim to be fair to Democrats and Republicans alike, balanced in reporting both liberal and conservative positions on issues.
But that’s a fiction.
There’s no way Republicans and conservatives can get a fair shake by the major daily newspapers or by the broadcast networks when 90 percent of political reporters either vote or lean Democrat, when an overwhelming majority tilt liberal.
The perversity of it all is that most major news organizations profess their commitment to “diversity;” profess their desire to have newsrooms that look like America (or at least the readers or viewers those news organizations serve).
But when they talk about diversity, they mean race and gender and sexual orientation. They couldn’t care less about political diversity.
And that’s why much of political reporting in the major dailies, on the network news is so biased.
The news judgment of those covering the presidential election, deconstructing the Iraq War and reconstruction, the following the 9/11 commission hearings, analyzing the latest opinion polls is colored by their overwhelmingly Democratic, preponderantly liberal leanings.
So here’s a challenge for political reporters at major newspapers, at the news networks: Follow Don Hewitt’s lead. Come out of the closet. Tell your readers, tell your viewers where you stand politically.
Are you a Democrat or Republican? Are you liberal or conservative? Did you vote for Gore or Bush in the last presidential election? Are you leaning Kerry or Bush this time around?
The reading public, the viewing public deserves to know the politics of those who report the political news, who shape public opinion, who influence the outcome of elections.
For informed news consumers make good citizens.
I don’t know where in the media we can prove that Iraq is a better place as it seems they focus on the negative, but I can tell you that I have talked to some Iraqis who said they’re glad we’re here. Can’t get much more first hand than that.