Help with Mad4One muni cranks

So I bought the 150/130 mad4one 10-pin isis cranks, followed the instructions on a .pdf I found on another similar thread, tried hitting the crank with a rubber hammer so that the pins would reach the spacer, and they won’t budge anymore than the pictures below show. While hitting the cranks, a piece of paint chipped off, and I don’t like the fact that I’m applying so much force to the side of my hub. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need thicker spacers? I greased the pins and everything. Should I just hit the equipment harder?

grease in there will help. But you aren’t using the crank bolt to tighten them in? That’s how I do it. I don’t think any amount of rubber malleting will get a crank on ISIS. Don’t worry about the paint chips, you’ll beat up your cranks in no-time.

What hub are you using?

Also I would advise to put a little grease on the pins. They will come loose faster so you will have to check them a bit more often but it will help slide them on.

They should fit very tight.

Also take them off and check the pins for any deformation such as deep scratches.

I greased the pins. No luck. So I should put the crank bolt in and tighten it a ton? That will move the pins in more? Maybe I will grease them even more. Is there any problem with greasing them TOO much?

I have the Impact Exceed Hub.

DO NOT TIGHETEN A TON, especially if the mallet wont get them on and you chipped them already.

if they are not going on with the mallet then there is something not right. I am almost curious if the Ti hub has a different size on the ISIS sizing. A while back k1 made a batch of hubs that were to small on the ISIS and it would slowly eat cranks.

Also contact Marco, he will solve any issues you have :slight_smile:

Also are your pins deformed any at all??

No deformities. How do I contact Marco?

About how far does the crank go onto the axel? If its over half you may have something wrong with the hub. Could be slightly bent and this is preventing the cranks from going on.

If you have any other cranks I would try to put them on. This will troubleshoot the issue of a bent a hub.

The Mad4one parts have a very tight tolerence so they fit very tight.

Contact Marco at this email address

marco@mad4one.com

FWIW, my cranks don’t ever go on much further than that, but then I don’t beat them on. I seat them as far as possible with my hands and then draw them on the rest of the way with the crank bolt. But I’m probably doing it wrong (even though I’ve never stripped a crank or FUBAR’d my hub).

But I’ve never tried M41 cranks (I don’t ride hard enough).

Well, 10-Pins (ISIS) Mad4One cranks should be assembled as any other isis cranks on the market.

1- Prepare the cranks by putting all the pins in place inside the crank, put a little lube on every of them while you slide them in.

2- Put on the ISIS axle spindle an adeguate spacer. Mad4One cranks comes with proprietary Delrin Spacers, are you using them?

3- Grease the ISIS axle spindle AND the pins and put the crank on with your hand. No other force is needed here, what’s with those hammers you crazy guys?!? :thinking:

4- Start tightening the M12 Screw on the spindle, first using only your hand til it stops, and then using an adeguate lever. ISIS screws should be tightened at about 30Nm. This way the cranks should reach the spacer.

If you still have problem, it’s very likely that your hub it’s not 100% ISIS compatible. If you want to check it out, try with other ISIS cranks like KH Moments or Spirits or Ventures (but they are a little bit softer that others) and see if they have a different fit.

The cranks didn’t come with anything except the pins and 4 rubber rings. I have been using isis cranks for a few months on this hub now, so I don’t think it’s the hub. I’m going to stop beating my very expensive muni with a rubber hammer now and try tightening the crank bolt. Thanks for the help! Marco was also very helpful, so I will update you guys when I figure it all out, just I’m case someone else had a problem like mine.

It may be helpful to consider that “ISIS” is a generic spec (available for viewing on the internet, or several places on this forum) intended to standardize splined axles and cranks. However, different companies have slightly different implementations of the standard. (My personal observation/opinion is that unicycle hubs do not strictly follow it, but that is another discussion.)
One of the features of the standard is that the hub and cranks are tapered, so the farther the cranks are drawn onto the hub, the tighter it gets. If the cranks are new, there are no deformations obvious, and previous crank installations onto the hub had no issues, then just putting the cranks on manually and pulling them up tight with a torque wrench is all you need to do. If there’s a little gap it won’t hurt anything. (Way better than going on too far, which also happens occasionally, if you read other peoples’ postings.) What you may lack is a torque wrench, which I recommend purchasing. Low cost versions can be had easily these days. The only slight difficulty may be getting the required metric hex key wrench to use with it. But if you do a brief web search, they are also not that uncommon.
Good luck! (And love the uni, btw! It’s really a class act!)

So I took it to an LBS and had them use the “standard isis crank torque spec.” I think it was 30-something feet per pound or some other weird measurement. I tightened the bolts down as much as the torque spec would allow, and this was the best I could get. Still about 1-2mm away from the spacer, but at this point I don’t care. Those suckers are stuck on my hub, and I don’t think they’re going to budge. The sound of the spacers clinking around might drive me mad, but at least I have new awesome mad4one muni cranks. AND IT’S RAINING IN CALIFORNIA SO I HAVE MUD TO PLAY IN TOMORROW!!

Dont worry about the space in there. I have a space with my crank and hub and it doesnt create any issues. Just tighten the cranks up every now and then when they come loose.

If the hub is a Mad4One to, then I once had the exact same combination (frame/hub/crank). Looking with the bearinghouse as reference for distances, then it looks different than mine; so yes, I do think so.

Take it from the source:
http://www.isisdrive.com/isisdrive/docs.htm

In the beginning there were 3 revisions…
2000-08-17: A
2000-10-19: B
2000-10-30: C
2001-03-23: D

After that everybody used rev. D. Except for Koxx, who probably used A, or B, or maybe C.
From indirect (and negative) sources I heard it happen accidentally when they submitted the wrong specification to the real factory, located in a -by then- cheap labor country.
Other than those I’m almost certain there is not any pre-D era part in unicycling produced.

And, although I’m aware there is different ways to Rome, I don’t know of “slightly different implementations of the standard”.
Can you please clarify your answer? I’m curious; what part is “generic” and what’s not?

I was thinking mainly of this detail (from page 12 of the spec, the one labeled “MALE SHOULDER”). If this was consistent, I don’t think there would be complaints about cranks coming too close and scraping the frame (which I’ve seen postings about on the forum). (I realize this would make the main bearing situation for unicycles look a lot different. Something completely different would have to be worked out.)
(I’m not an expert, and am not looking to start a flame war. Just my amateur observations.)

ISIS detail.JPG

As it happens, the majority of unicycle companies have changed the specification… they have tightened the tolerance ranges. <whinge> I don’t know who wrote the original specification, but had they done the calculation on the tolerance fits they would know it does not work. </whinge>

The male shoulder is replaced by the spacer on the hubs. We actually have an advantage over bikes with this - we can change the spacer to help with tolerance and material wear problems.

Roger

Where do you get mad4one cranks?

They seem to only be sold in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.

http://www.municycle.ca/mad-4-one-isis-cranks-p-767.html

municycle.ca is the only place i see them right now