Help Stop The Cull Of African Elephants

Off-topic
1

By going here.

Yeah, I know.

In the past I’ve been very quick to deride on-line petitions as worthless and not worth the paper they aren’t written on. I haven’t really changed my mind, this issue is simply one that I feel so strongly about that I’m willing to take the chance (besides, even if it achieves nothing else, it’ll irritate Kortbroek, a noble cause in it’s own right).

You may have heard me rudely cut short environmental discussions with the
‘When The Music’s Over’ -inspired “don’t talk to me about culling, pull down the f-ing fences”. While working on two enviro-based radio stations, this attitude didn’t endear me to many people in the ‘conservation industry’. To now see the same opinion expressed by an organisation of the stature of IFAW just really makes me want to say “I TOLD YOU SO!” to all those khaki-wearing hypocrites who should be sucking up to foreign tourists on game drives (hell-bent on fitting in the Big5 before morning coffee) and leave conservation to people who actually care about animals.

OK, I’m off the soapbox. Since you’ve already wasted a minute and a half reading this bit, I don’t feel so bad about asking you to take another 3 minutes to read the bit here. and then consider taking an additional 2 minutes to fire off the petition.

If this is your thing, please consider a) signing the petition and b) sending the link off to people who you think should read it.

We don’t really want Nelly to go pack her bags again now, do we?

2

Done.
Now I feel better after having done my Liberal cause for the year. :wink:

3

It’s all about balance, John.

Thanx.

4 
The trouble with such petitions is that they often only give, in detail, one side of the case to those asked to sign them.   Given that we have in some cases confined elephants to a restricted area, we have imposed conditions on them that they might not normally face, which may well have allowed their numbers to rise above normal levels. The elephant is a pretty big beast, and has large requirements from its environment.  It is perfectly possible that, as their number is allowed to continue unchecked, that other wildlife is suffering.   I would prefer a totally unconstrained population, with numbers controlled only by natural means, although it must be realised that that may mean many elephants dying a horrible death by starvation, thirst  etc.  Without the reserves, poachers would probably have an even greater negative effect on elephant numbers, so the reserves seem to be necessary.   Show me the full argument as put by the other side and then ask me to make up my mind whether to sign the petition.   I think petitions should by law, have three columns,  yes/no/don't care.  Only in that way can true public opinion be guaged.    Then we have to remember that public opinion is often guided more by sentiment than by common sense.

Having been fairly soft on the subject so far, maybe it is time for me to get out the sharp rib poking stick.

The real problem is not of course elephant numbers, but people numbers.  In order to support the incessant growth of our numbers, the numbers of other creatures has had to change.  Wildlife decreases, domesticated species proliferate.  Chickens replace grouse and skylarks, cows replace deer and badgers, wheat replaces wild flowers.   Control of the human population is maybe a far more important issue, political dynamite though it is, and one which the politicians have always backed rapidly away from.    They do not understand that , with oil and other resources running out, and our numbers still increasing, we are rapidly heading for a problem that will make elephant numbers in SA seem trivial.   If the human population size had been constrained over the last century or so, would we still be seeing human famine, global warming, race and religious problems etc?   Admittedly, one or two countries have played with this problem, maybe with somewhat less thought than was needed.   In China for instance, the way it was implemented has resulted in a cull of some female children.   Expressed in crude, basic terms one might even ask  "Do you want 3, 4 or 5 kids, or do you want elephants?"

And are you happy just knowing that there are elephants in Africa, or do you actually have to go see them? You plane trip may well make a pretty deep and muddy carbon footprint.
Discuss! This one could get lively.

Nao ( controversial? who me? )

5

You say it like it’s a bad thing…

Seriously tho, I have no responsibillity to provide you with pro-and/or anti arguments.
I’ve worked thru them and I’ve made up my mind based on info I’ve found and posting this petition here is my way of acting on my convictions.
If you haven’t yet made up your mind, by all means do so, but don’t expect me to your legwork just because I already have an opinion.

Your comments about human numbers strikes me as spot on.
One of the counter arguments I always get to my ‘pull down the fences’ suggestion is that animals are dangerous and will kill people.
“You say that like it’s a bad thing…”
We may be sitting with a self-solving problem, we just have to give it that first nudge.

PULL DOWN THE FENCES!

As for elephants dying horrible deaths thru starvation and thirst, that’s nature. Zebra’s die horrible deaths when taken by crocodiles, I don’t see you lining up to volunteer for the handfeed-the-crocks-corps.

6

Wouldn’t that kill even more elephants?

7

That’s debatable.
What it will do is allow natural forces to dictate numbers and deaths and not a bunch of bureacrats who’ve had 11 years to come up with a solution to the Kruger Park problem but have done nothing. Now, as they’ve tried to do before, they claim the situation is too severe to attempt a remedy using any of the other alternatives and that a cull is the only way.

If you want to fence a bunch of animals in and manage them, do it, I might look the other way. But then do your job. Don’t sit on your fat-cat salary and occasionally spring this kind of travesty when your laziness catches up to you.

OK Dave, deep breath…

8

I hope it was fairly obvious that I would do the research before deciding either way, but also it would be good if the petition site also gave equal coverage by means of a page that listed the scientific reasons for the cull in detail. But you are, as an individual, perfectly entitled to just promote your own view.
The fences are there, in my opinion, more to keep the people out than the animals in. I personally do not see any reason why the human species in in any way special. To modify one of your statements, if a few people get eaten or trampled it is only nature getting its claws red? Only sentiment prevents me from embracing that principle completely. Yes indeed animals are dangerous, and we have to accept that or else remove them from the equation. I would prefer to retain the animals, no matter how dangerous it may be.
And oddly, before I came to the UK I have on rare occasion hand fed crocodiles. The Philippine Crocodile is now very scarce indeed, but when I was young there was a small population in a lake near my uncle’s house. They were being studied by some university project at the time, so I suppose they were rare even then. Unlike those in the Limpopo, they were not really big enough to endanger any zebra that might have strayed sufficiently far from Etosha. But when I next go home I shall sacrifice a chicken dinner or two for them, if any still remain in the lake.

9

What were the chances?! I make a silly, off-the-cuff comment about hand-feeding crocs to possibly only one of two people on these fora to have actually done it.
Just my luck.

I was thinking more of the crocs in Mara river having their Zebra, Wildebeest and Thompson’s Gazelle fondue during the migration, but we’re on the same page.

10

Done.
You know contraceptive darts isn’t a bad idea for people too. I imagine if there were fewer people there’d be room for more elephants.Would give a whole new meaning to the phrase “Cupid’s Arrow.”

11

It’s probably going to get to a stage where you’ll get a tax break if you’re willing to be vasectomied.
Or maybe I’m just dreaming again.

12

Please run for some office that’ll allow me to vote for you.

13

Hmmm… I don;t know about that. The problem being that you are not giving people a choice. I do think that it’s be best to give everyone that can reproduce the option to have free contraceptives. Make it a standard like vaccinations are. Give the 12+ year old girls a shot so they don’t get pregnant. If it existed, give the 14+ year old boys a contraceptive so they can’t get girls pregnant. But of course, don’t force it, just make it available at no cost and a standard practice, as for society, it’ll significantly reduce the cost of unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.

14

How about Plan B?

Billy

JETHRO TULL - Wind-Up Lyrics

So I asked this GOD a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said – I’m not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

15

A couple of updates. Nothing new really.

16

Dave,

This is another favorite GOD song, and relevant. It’s from a great album:

Men In Helicopters
(Adrian Belew)

wouldn’t it be great…
to see the african plains
before they lay them to waste…
and only the bones remain

wouldn’t it be poetry…
to shoot holes in the poachers we see
with an elephant gun…
men in helicopters fly
shooting rhinos from out of the sky
why do we always assume the planet is ours to ruin
what a legacy…
we’re leaving behind…
what a legacy

wouldn’t it be something…
for the men killing dolphins
to be caught up by their necks…
in their greedy fishing nets

wouldn’t it be irony…
if the tuna fish canneries were to fall into the sea…
dolphins and the whales still left alive
cry to the stars in the deep blue night
‘there’s nowhere to hide,
the people on earth will not be denied’
what a legacy…
we’re leaving behind…
what a legacy

wouldn’t it be odd…
if there really was a God
and He looked down on earth
and saw what we’ve done to Her

wouldn’t it be just…
if He pulled the plug on us and took away the sun
men in helicopters fly
shooting rhinos from out of the sky
why do we always assume the planet is ours to ruin
oh, and all the dolphins alive are cryin’ to the deep blue night
‘there’s nowhere to hide,
the people on earth will not be denied’
what a legacy…
we’re leaving behind