The usual viewpoint from someone who has never fired a weapon is that gun control is good. However, I find that the exact opposite is true because gun control only keeps guns out of the hands of licensed gun owners. Criminals still have guns regardless of the law.
Saying you’re not racist doesn’t make it true. The fact that you felt it was necessary to mention that the group was black, and that you repeatedly said them, and those people certainly have some racist subtext.
Here are some examples:
“I see over 20 black kids (most likely a small gang)”
They are black kids therefore they are a gang?
“In these big groups, they aren’t afraid to attack people, because the chances of getting caught are less, and it’s hard to recognize them. I honestly couldn’t pick out any one of them, If I ever saw them again.”
These groups? They all look the same to you?
Even if you don’t consider yourself racist you sure express yourself with racist undertones.
Great, give all the idiots guns. That will take the heat out of the situation. And so much more constructive than bringing up a generation of kids who don’t behave like that in the first place.
I could probably say the same thing about white, hispanic, asian, etc. So I imagine that being somewhat specific or factual about who is involved would be considered racist no matter what.
“Most likely a small gang” Obviously an assumption. Any group of whoever, acting as described, I would assume are a small gang in said neighborhood. He didn’t say they are 100% a small gang. But seeing as how they “ganged” up on that one guy and they were cohesive in their actions, it’s a safe bet to assume so. If it makes you feel better, I’ll assume they were just an angry mob.
You can interpret anything anything to suit your arguments. He didn’t say “these groups”. He said, “In these big groups…”. If you’re going to call someone out on something they said, please make sure it’s something they said, not something edited by you.
At the distance I would put myself between them and I, I would also say that I couldn’t recognize anyone, or that from the distance I was at, they all looked the same to me. To be close enough to distinguish detail between each individual is to close for comfort in a situation like that. Also, even if I were to be up close and personal, I would probably only be able to remember two - five faces. Maybe. If you have ever been in a position like that, you have other things on your mind then remembering faces.
Back on topic, I think gun control has it’s pro’s and con’s. It’s con’s more often then not having a negative impact on law abiding citizens. And that’s where things in my opinion turn wrong. If anti gun advocates had their way, the only people with firearms, besides law enforcement and military, would be criminals. That’s bad news for the good guys. Let’s face it. There are more bad guys then there are cops. Sometimes I think that the fear of loosing your freedom aka going to jail/prison, is the greatest motivation bad guys have for not using firearms at will. This is not to say that all bad guys have guns. I think everyone has the right to defend themselves. I’m not saying let’s make this the wild west, but if I ever had someone or a group of people threatening my family, friends, or loved ones at my residence, I would like utilize my right to use my legally obtained firearm if the situation calls for it.
Glad you made it out ok. I suggest that you find somewhere else to ride if being in a certain area might cause you harm. Swinging your uni can only do so much when it’s 1 vs 20.
Isn’t it nice that as white males we have the option of saying “I’m not racist”. That’s part of white privilege. We certainly like to think of ourselves as not racist.
It doesn’t matter that I changed the wording because the subtext is still there.
Had it been a group of white kids he would not have pointed out that it was bunch of white kids. He would have just said a bunch of kids. Clearly he thought the fact that they were black was relevant to the story. It’s not just mentioning their race that makes it racist.
If 20 white kids were walking around, he probably wouldn’t have assumed that they were a gang.
Fine he said “In these big groups THEY aren’t afraid to attack people” again preconceptions about THEM. I’d be willing to bet if it were a group of white kids his words would have been quite different.
He also talked about this being near the “ghetto”. Ghetto is a racially charged term. You don’t often hear the places that poor white people live called the ghetto.
Had the group not been black the story would have been told quite differently.
His words are filled with subtle ingrained racism. This isn’t his fault. It’s assumptions and fears that are built into society. But it is racism.
And the important thing we can do to change is to recognize it.
Sounds like another example of how things are supposed to work.
I feel much safer living in a house with two ex-marines, four firearms, and a doberman - even though I only live a block off campus.
I feel it is the right of each individual to have the tools available to him to protect himself. Furthermore, I feel fortunate to live in a nation (and state) where that ability to protect myself is recognized and protected by law.
Eliminating private ownership of firearms is effectively concentrating power into the hands of fewer individuals - the state and its agents, as well as criminals. IMO, power is like butter - it’s only good when it’s spread.
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?” -Patrick Henry
"Never Forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so he can do something to you that you wouldn’t allow him to do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policemen, bureaucrats, and politicians. -Alexander Hope, from the novel “Hope” by L. Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman
It is racist to make assumptions or judgements about individuals, or act differently towards them, because of their colour without first observing how they behave.
But is is simply true that certain behaviours and attitudes are more or less associated with different cultures.
If you see a group of people behaving in a way that appears consistent with what you would expect from the culture to which they appear to belong, then it is not unreasonable to make a preliminary assessment of how they are likely to behave. That is not racism - until you start to make judgements that go beyond the evidence you have seen, or, worse, you ignore evidence because it doesn’t fit your preconceptions.
When describing an event to someone else later, it is sometimes reasonable to include racial or cultural descriptions in the story to explain how and why you felt and reacted as you did.
For example, in the UK, statistically, a burglar is likely to be a young white male; a street robbery is more likely to be committed by a young black male; and certain types of “white collar crime” are disproportionately represented in the Asian community. These are observable and measurable facts.
You should not assume that all young white males are burglars; that all young black males are robbers; or that all Asians are fraudsters. However, you may well factor those statistical realities into your assessment of a situation when you meet a group of young black men coming towards you down the street, behaving as if they are in a street gang.
I see ten black young black men in “streetwear” and matching bandanas on one side of the road, and ten young black men in smart suits on the other side of the road, I know which side of the road I’ll choose.
On the other hand, a few years ago, if I had seen ten white lads in scruffy jeans, and ten white lads in suits, I would have avoided the suits, for the same reasons.
It’s just as dangerous to call something racist when it isn’t, as it is to pretend it isn’t when it is.
Also, it is part of the problem with western society that we consider “black” to cover everything from West Indian to central African; and white to include everything from English to German to Welsh.
It is no more correct to lump Bantus and Hutus together (or Pakistanis and Indians) than it is to expect a Canadian to be pleased to be mistaken for an American, or a Belgian for a German.
Actually, it does. It means that you’re trying really hard to find fault with his comments, to find racism. Trying so hard, in fact, that you’re willing to change what he said to suit what you’re looking for.
So every time I use the word “they” or “them,” is it racially charged since I, too, and white? Sorry but these terms just occur very often in the English language, especially when talking about groups of people. Sure, it’s possible that his usage was racially charged, but assuming so based on a few lines of text just makes you look like an overzealous ideologue who sees the world through racist-colored glasses. Again, you’re superimposing what you’re looking for onto what was said.
In fact, the term “ghetto” STARTED OUT as a term referring to where poor, white people lived. In my own life, “ghetto” has been used to refer to poor neighborhoods of any racial heritage. It’s true that “ghetto” does have some racial charge, but I feel that coming from those older than me - those younger than me simply use it to refer to any poor neighborhood. The evolution of language, I suppose.
I’m tired of people telling me how racist I am, or prejudiced against the disabled, or whatever…but oh, I can’t help it. It’s society’s fault. I better just submit to their politics, laws, and social programs in the hope of redeeming myself. I’m just so lost in my own racism I don’t even see it. Please, please save me from myself, government! 
Not every time you say They, but when you’re already referring to black people and you say THEY do such and such. You are being racist because you’re making racial assumptions.
Actually it started out as term for the poor Jewish neighborhoods where Jews were forced to live by law. Where the governments kept them second class citizens.
Ghetto is very racially charged word and in this context he was clearly using the term to refer to poor black neighborhoods.
The fact that these kids were black has a lot to do with the way he emotionally reacted and the way that he told the story.
The fact of the situation is huge racial assumptions were made. If this were a large group of white kids prowling around on Halloween and were up to no good, throwing eggs at people and displaying aggressive behavior. They would not be assumed to be a gang and the use of gun to try to scare them off might have been considered inappropriate.
Perhaps if society didn’t assume so much that groups of young black men were criminals out to hurt people the situation wouldn’t exist in the first place.
Too late for an edit:
Racism is ingrained in our society. The first thing we can do to change it is to be more aware of it.
Most racist behavior isn’t seen by the individual as being racist or they would try to change their attitudes and behavior.
As a white person who is not at the negative end of racist thought and behavior it’s easy to just ignore racism or try to deny that it exists.
Really? You think all those non-whites don’t sometimes have thoughts about you that might sometimes be racist?
In western countries with a European cultural heritage, white people are fortunate to retain (on average) socio-economic advantage over people from other races.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t whole neighbourhoods and, indeed,countries, where large numbers of people would make adverse judgements about you because you’re white. The very idea that you are “not on the negative end of racist thought” implies that you think racism is a one way street - and that is a form of racism.
hmm, this thread went a different way I thought it would. What I meant by I’m not racist, is I don’t hate black people, or I don’t think I’m better than one of those kids based on color of skin. I’ve had more black friends in my whole life then white friends. I go to a school that is about 95% black. I mean this doesn’t help prove my point, because I could go there and hate everyone at the school. But, I don’t. I’m the only white kid on the swim team, and we all hang out. I think I do have prejudices based on life experiences and what I see around me. I think everyone does, even if they don’t admit it. There are stereotypes are created about every race. And why did these kids enforce the one I had about them spotting them from a few blocks away? Should I have stayed where I was on an abandoned torn down property only visible by a few houses, not assuming anything was up and got beaten to pulp or death and got my $700 unicycle and another $100 of other property I had with me stolen?
Right now I’m coming down with the flu(maybe swine), and I have more to say, but I’m sick and I can’t think how to say it right now. I just want to reinforce the idea that I don’t hate blacks, even these guys, I forgive everyone of them. I even apologize to blacks (who are trying to change these stereotypes and make a positive difference, instead of going around in vandalizing mobs) if I react in the future with a tinted view based on what I experienced yesterday.
By pointing out the endemic racism in your post I did not intend to mean that you “hate” black people. But to say “I’m not racist, I have black friends” is a laughably racist comment.
As a person who lives in diverse community and does try to understand racial and cultural diversity you should try to read your post objectively and see how an inherent racist subtext exists in what wrote. Learn from the experience. Your post could be an interesting learning tool for you. Take it and discuss it with leaders in your local black community.
There is certainly no single solution to societal racism but discussion does lead to mutual understanding.
And Mike, yes, racism goes in all directions, but in America, and most of Europe where white is the majority and whites are at the top of the socio-economic structure white’s ability to have power and influence in society is not held back by other people’s pre-conceptions of white people. Where as minority races are held back from power and influence by pre-conceptions based on their race.
Maybe this will help you and grandpa?
call the cops and ask em to do random street checks at night is my opinion.
Gun control only hurts law-abiding citizens. It’s as simple as that. (You want proof? I’ll cite violent crime rates in Great Britain, Washington DC, and San Francisco. I’ll throw in Chicago as a freebie. All places where violent crime increased drastically after enactment of strict gun control laws)
You don’t like guns? Don’t own them, but your narrowmindedness should not be allowed to prevent me from ensuring my own safety (and yours, by extension. . .).
When the chips are down and seconds count, the cops are minutes away.
Since a gun is more likely to be used to kill someone in your family, it doesn’t ensure your safety, it endangers your family.
Depends how you normalize the data. Less than 1% of all guns will ever be used to kill anyone at all, good guy or bad.
To talk about endangering a family is a bit disingenuous as the gun does nothing of its own volition. It requires an accidental actuation (such as by a kid; this can be mitigated with training and other controls) or a willful one, such as by a derranged individual who would likely turn to another weapon of opportunity. A less obvious fallacy inherent in your argument is that it neglects the power of deterrence. When criminals know you have weapons, or even suspect it, it makes them significantly less likely to see you as a target.
But out of those 1% how many are just used once, twice, 20 times?
[QUOTE=Peripatet;1300754When criminals know you have weapons, or even suspect it, it makes them significantly less likely to see you as a target.[/QUOTE]
Peace through strength.
Peace through strength.