Future of Unicycle Road Racing (here's what I think; what do you think?)

General
1

Hey everybody,

Before I get into anything, I’d like to totally superly thank everybody for all the props and congratulations; it definitely feels quite amazing to think I’ve got a world record in anything at all, much less something as cool as unicycling. This has definitely been quite a trip for me, to say the least.

If it’s all right, I’d like to address some of the concerns I read about over in the marathon results thread in a separate thread (this thread) to kind of hopefully… air things out a little. Also, without claiming to know more than those who’ve already spoken on the matter, I’d like to take the liberty of describing the direction I see road unicycling going in the future. Not that I’m necessarily an authority on the matter, but I just feel more comfortable posting in a new thread, where maybe we can have a positive discussion or none at all if we’re not in the mood. It felt sort of funny being the subject of the small bit of heat in the other thread(s) from a couple days ago, when what follows is how I’ve been thinking for the past weeks. I’m only a small part of what’s to come, and don’t think I deserve that kind of attention! (and I didn’t even beat Ken or Jan by very much in the marathon (and Ken was on a geared 29!)!) Anyway, there seems to still be a bit of tension regarding the whole geared vs. ungeared issue, particularly with kinds of things like what-performance-means-who’s-better-than-who or who-could-beat-who-on-what-equipment, but more importantly, what all this means for the future of the sport.

I don’t really think I did anything awesome during RTL or Unicon, other than to make the point that there’s a whole lot of room for improvement in the sport of road unicycle racing right now. I think we all made that crystal clear when seven of us, both geared and ungeared, broke the 10km world record on Sunday while weaving through throngs of riders on 20" and 24" unicycles on gravel roads. I also agree with Ken about the implications of the fact that none of last Unicon’s top riders were on geared 36 setups. Nothing that’s happened at RTL or at Unicon proves that I’m a faster rider than anyone or everyone else. To those who’ve defended my recent riding as something amazing, I can’t thank you enough for your votes of confidence, but everything I (or anyone!) have done so far can be nothing more than a starting point, and I’m planning on being quickly rendered obsolete once we get some really insane riders on these new geared rides. The racing ahead will be very intense, indeed. There are definitely plenty of ungeared riders right now who are planning on going geared soon, and I’m looking forward to the competition. I don’t know who will be fastest once we’re all on efficient (geared!) unicycles, but, case in point, I’m not expecting it to be me.

That said, I think the notion that a geared 36" can allow someone unfit to get a record doesn’t really hold much water. I definitely believe that the geared 36" significantly broadens the base of people capable of beating the records; no one disputes that. But to do so on a geared 36" requires a different type of fitness; whereas “fitness” for an ungeared rider would entail a quick, light spin at insane cadences, “fitness” for a geared up rider necessitates an ability to consistently put out large quantities of power for long periods of time in ways that don’t upset the balance of the unicycle. (I can only start to do this; real cyclists would eat me alive.) As an example, I think Sam and Dustin are considerably more fit than I am as far as ungeared riding is concerned. I might be able to compete with them, but I’d definitely not be faster, not by any means. On a geared uni, hopefully the gap will be narrower, because I’m much better at pushing things with my legs than spinning them. All in all, though, a geared rider puts the exact same amount of energy into the road as an ungeared rider at the same speed; the crux of it all is that the unicycle must match the body type of the rider in order to be efficient. I’m thinking I might do better on a 2x36 setup, whereas, say, Sam might be better off spinning more quickly on a 1.5x36. It’s not necessarily because I’m more or less fit than anyone, but because we’re all different riders. Furthermore, a “faster unicycle” is not by any means a ticket into the record books (you have to actually muscle these things around!), unless the state of the record books is such that said “faster unicycle” is so much more compatible with your body that it allows you to beat some things, which has (so far) been the case for me. Comparing gear-inches and claiming that higher gear-inches result in more speed, I think, is like comparing the distances we can pee in still air at standard temperature and pressure with terrestrial gravity; it’s kind of pointless. Up until now, bigger gears have meant faster riding, but 54" is getting to the point where it might not behoove some to go bigger, while others may want to keep going for more. I picture my sweet spot around 70-80", which is right where I cruise on my bicycle. A 3:1 36er would be pretty stupid for me, but maybe not for someone who can leg-press six of me.

To attempt to further dispel the notion that a geared unicycle allowing unfit people to get records is a “Real Bad Thing,” I want to put forward that even if an unfit rider can get a record, it only means that the record is ripe for the picking, and will soon be lifted back out of reach of the masses by the top riders who will reclaim it by doing what the unfit rider did to break it. If it isn’t reclaimed soon by a top rider, then it, well, pretty much deserves to be slow for the available equipment, because there’s no excuse to not go as fast as you can go. I think that includes money, too, as $2,000US for a top-end world-record capable unicycle is only a fraction of what many not-so-strong Joe-Schmoe cyclists spend on their road bikes. If a record is fast, it’s because someone wanted badly enough to really set it in the sky. (Just to be clear, I don’t think my two records are very fast, given what should be possible on a geared 1.5x36, or especially on a geared unicycle in general.)

Also, Ken is absolutely right that the feats of ungeared riders of years’ past should not be overshadowed by the new wave of geared madness. Not many of us can ride like Sam and Roger and Dustin and Ken except, well, Sam and Roger and Dustin and Ken and the few other ungeared elites. These guys spin like I can only dream of spinning. Does it make them more “fit” than me? For ungeared unicycles, yeah, definitely. For geared unicycles? We’ll see; they haven’t yet had a chance to show us what they can do with them yet, and when they get their gears, the racing will be on! I’m definitely not in a comfortable spot here, because these guys are beasts! That said, perhaps the mad spinning of years’ past should be preserved in a separate category of “fixed 36-inch and under” wheel records, but even then, some records have been set on 43+ inch ungeared wheels, and further, based on that line of logic, there should be no reason to have separate records for every wheel size, which would be something I think we all would deem wholly unnecessary. We already have a 24" limit; perhaps we should have a 36" limit, then a true “unlimited” category, where anything on one human-powered wheel is fair game. Formerly limited to 36" wheels, it seems that the unlimited category started to mature to the point where the records were getting tough to beat, and now that we have gears riders beginning to be capable of using them, many of us are clamoring for limits to what was originally “unlimited.” So, where do you draw the line and stop making new categories? I’m not going to claim to know that just yet. Right now, despite the bigger-than-36"-fixed-wheels-already-having-records inconsistency, I think I’m in favor of a third category, a fixed-36-and-under, containing all records except mine and Signe’s at Unicon just now, and including the previous records made on 40-something inch wheels. This opinion, though what seems like the best option right now, doesn’t completely jive well with me, because I don’t think we should be spawning new categories every time there’s a technological advance.

Road unicycling is growing up, and I think this tension is quite akin to a growing pain. I consider myself extremely lucky to be at the forefront of it with all the other fast riders who competed at the front of RTL and the 10k/marathon, at the birth of the “really viably fast unicycle” era. Granted, we’re still nowhere near the bikes, but the gearing and quality of the unicycles will undoubtedly allow someone in the future (undoubtedly much stronger than any of us right now) to seriously tear it up and do something comparable to what is done on upright bicycles. I’m pretty sure that 22 miles in an hour would be possible with on a simple 1.5x36 setup with short cranks and good conditions and a really fast rider, but with, say, 175mm cranks and a 2-or-3 to 1 gear ratio on 36" plus years of training and balance, I’d bet that 26+ miles should be possible in an hour on a unicycle. By no means am I the rider to pull off that kind of a feat, but I’m sure some of the serious cyclists I sometimes ride with would be able to do it if they let themselves get comfortable on such a machine. As a comparison, I’m pretty sure I could do around 24-25mph for an hour on a well-fit road bike, and if I were to attempt the unicycling hour record right now, I think I could peg it around 19 or 19.5mph, but not quite the magic 20 just yet. Seeing as there are folks who can do 30 miles in an hour on a road bike, I’m sure that if you gave one a good gear ratio and taught him how to ride, he’d push through 25 or so miles on a well-fit, stiff unicycle. For me at least, that’s unthinkable. I think, for any of us right now, 25mph for an hour is pretty much comprehensible only as a dream. There are seriously plenty people that strong, though. Back at school in Irvine, I frequently ride my road bike with a bunch of 30-50+ year old guys, and the majority of them can crush me at any time they choose, so soundly that I wouldn’t be able to stay on their wheels for 60 seconds even if I dropped the hammer and went completely anaerobic in their drafts. In USA Cycling, I’m a Cat 5 rider, maybe strong enough to be at the strong end of Cat 4, but not yet sufficiently experienced. I can’t touch many Cat 3 riders, and there’s 2, 1, and Pro after that. Assuming unicycling’s new development of geared hubs will attract ever-better athletes to the sport, all common sense dictates that my piddly two records here at Unicon (and any others I’ll hopefully try to have the honor of setting in the near future) are just begging to be smashed.

Before I go, I want to say that, by beating these records, I mean no disrespect to anyone, and I’m honored to be able to be at the front of this revolution, so to speak, even if it’s only for the obligatory fifteen minutes. Geared hubs have really opened up the world to road unicycling as we know it, and this is only the beginning. Riding these speeds geared up has only given me more respect for the abilities of the ungeared champions, and I hope that records continue to be broken at the rate they have been as of late, regardless of whether or not the riders are geared. Like many of us, though, I predict that most, if not all, will be geared.

So, if you’ve read this far, thanks for reading, and I’d love to know what you guys think. I really don’t want to be the guy who comes in from nowhere and tries to invalidate years of top quality riding by suddenly beating it on a new machine. I just happened, at Unicon 2008, to be the guy who best matched his unicycle, at a time when road unicycling is in quite the state of flux… and I couldn’t be happier with my fifteen minutes. (so thank you!!)

Beyond all that, all I have left to say is this: here we go. To the future! :slight_smile:

Chuck

2

That was an extremely well thought out and informative post. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts.

3

That took a while to write, eh?

The insane spinners should all get their records in the limited category…I’m not sure we have enough decent riders for a third category anyways.

4

That was well written Chuck.

I did not want to sound negative at all in the other threads, but I guess I did and it’s not a reflection of you, GUni’s in general, and the way road unicycling is heading. And yes, I did get a bit worked up (ok, alot worked up) when people started putting down the efforts of Unguni’s, considering the amount of effort that goes into pushing those things against those of us riding Schlumpfs, and the efforts that went into previous records- Hour, 100mile, 24hr, Marathon, 10km, etc etc. For that I can’t apologise enough.

To me, a unicycle is the simplest form of transport next to walking. Thus the best distinction in road unicycling, is not so much the gear size (you could ride an Unguni with a 42" diameter wheel, or a 29" GUni which gears it up only slightly higher); but the idea that once you start putting gears on a unicycle, it is no longer the simple machine that you started out with.

Are GUni’s a bad thing? Hell no…it’s taken us a hundred years to catch up with bicycles by having production gears. This is a step in the right direction. But for record attempts I think there should be a distinction between GUni and Unguni records. For the purist, go for the Unguni records. For someone into pushing the limits of unicycling, then GUni is the way to go.

You’re absolutely right about GUni’s favouring different types of riders. At the moment we still do not have a sufficient range of gears to choose from, but in bicycling…if you were racing on the track, going for the same record, some riders will choose a bigger gear, whilst other riders may prefer to spin a lower gear at high cadence. Putting a fast spinner on a big gear GUni does not necessarily make them very fast. But I think as we get more fast riders on GUnis…too many to name, it will be very interesting indeed, and many records will fall.

With regards Unicon…it is an unlimited category, and it should be about pushing technology and speed to it’s limits. That’s why I rode a GUni, having seen how we were creamed by a bunch of GUni’s at RTL. I guess part of racing is about securing the best equipment over your competitors.

In my case, I had a huge advantage over the Unguni riders, and there’s no way I would have beaten them otherwise. But once GUni’s become commonplace, those of us with an early mover advantage will probably have to try just that bit harder.

It may sound like I’m contradicting myself, maybe I am. But I do think we need to have two categories…GUni and Unguni. Purely for the reason I outlined in my third paragraph.

As for how fast we can go in future, I think there is no reason why we can’t get closer to bike speed (at least on the track where only one gear is needed) once we get the optimum gear ratios, time-trial position, and most of all, lighter wheels than we have currently in 36".

5

Ya, I enjoyed reading it.
The first 2/3s anyway…then I had to go look at something else for a little while.

6

No one is taking anything away from the athlete by saying: From auto racing to skiiing to any sport that involves a collaboration between technology and an athlete skilled in using that technology, winning has always been a collaborative effort.

It’s an exciting time, watching how technology exerts an ever greater influence in unicycling, allowing unicyclists to manifest greater speeds, drops, and all manner of extremes.

Billy

7

Excellent summation of the situation, Chuck Edwall. I agree that it’s not desirable to create more and more categories. There should be distinct races for geared and ungeared unis, or at least certainly two distinct records kept. (OTOH, it’s seems like a shame not to preserve all those std racing uni with 24s and such). Interesting questions for pondering.

It’s tremendously exciting to be involved in this sport at this point in unicycling’s evolution.

8

I think this summer will be remembered as an inflection point for unicycle racing, in the way that Kris Holm’s arrival at California MUni Weekend in 1998 is remembered as an inflection point for MUni. A lot of people did a lot of MUni before then; George Peck’s contribution was particularly noteworthy. But Kris came in and expanded everyone’s view of what was possible in MUni. Now there are dozens of riders who can ride the kind of stuff that Kris rode in 1998, but it took the arrival of someone like Kris to bring the sport to that level. And, of course, Kris himself has pushed the sport forward since then, both through his riding and his equipment.

10 years from now, we old coots will be reminiscing about that year when the geared 36ers showed up at RTL and UNICON, how before that a lot of people didn’t think geared unicycles were really faster than ungeared, and Chuck and the German Speeders came along and showed what was possible. “The sport was never the same after that, sonny.”

I’m not sure I see 26mph as feasible, but I agree that we’re just at the beginning of the curve of where unicycle speeds will go.

9

Just reading what you guys wrote I too think it is only logical to separate the 2. Basically all sports have rules that are designed to start the competitors on a level playing field. Geared and ungeared is not a level playing field. Both are worthy of their own recognition. BTW (seriously, I want an answer) who makes the rules?

10

Well, based on the legth and intensity of your post, I’d say you must have stirred up a yellow jacket nest :roll_eyes:

I’m not any sort of unicyclist like you, I’m a newbie, but I excel in a number of other sports where “size” and equipment can quickly lead to an advanatge. What I’d like to do is offer some suggestion as you how it can be handled.

In mountain biking, there is often a seperate class for single speed bikes, of course there usually aren’t too many of these folks, however there are some single speed dedicated races. The idea here is having gears often results in a faster lap time.

In downriver whitewater kayak racing, the classes are broken up by boat type and length, the idea being that longer boats are faster boats, and that specialized racing hulls can be way faster.

In skiing, telemark, though the traditional skiing style, is a bit slower than alpone skiing due to the nature of the free heel binding. Freeheelers often hang with alpine skiers, but in racing they can’t compare, so we still have our racing circuit, though it is a shadow of what alpiners have.

So you see, it doesn’t have to be a geared versus ungeared race. We can ride and race together, but we compete within our class; wheel size, guni, uneared, age, sex, shoe size, etc…

Now I do have one opinion that you may not like, but I think it still needs to be said, esp after reading your very long winded rant:

If you bring a burro to a horse race, you aren’t really horse racing.

If we go by the assumption that unicycling is a most rediculous form of transportation, then the idea of racing said cycles is truly silly. This isn’t to say that it shouldn’t be done, but we need to take this thing with a grain of salt.

Talking about setting speed “records” on a unicyle is sorta like saying I hold the record for hopping on one leg for 26.2 miles. Sure, if you’re missing a leg you might be maximizing your potential as a physicaly challenged athlete, but a person with two legs setting said record is just being silly.

Now this is just my opinion, so no need to flame (I’m heat proof anyhow).

I am as thrilled as the next person with gear advances, but in the end it’s still a unicycle, and unicycling is pretty durn silly :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Well, based on the legth and intensityof you post, I’d say you must have stirred up a yellow jacket next :roll_eyes:

I’m not any sort of unicyclist like you, I’m a newbie, but I excell in a number of other sports where “size” and equipment can quickly lead to an advanatge. What I’d like to do is offer some suggestion as you how it can be handled.

In mountain biking, there is often a seperate class for single speed bikes, of course there usually aren’t too many of these folks, however there are some single speed dedicated races. The idea here is having gears often results in a faster lap time.

In downriver whitewater kayak racing, the classes are broken up by boat type and length, the idea being that longer boats are faster boats, and that specialized racing hulls can be way faster.

So you see, it doesn’t have to be a geared versus ungeared race. We can ride and race together, but we compete within our class; wheel size, guni, uneared, age, sex, shoe size, etc…

Now I do have one opinion that you may not like, but I think it still needs to be said, esp after reading your very long winded rant:

If you bring a burro to a horse race, you aren’t really horse racing.

If we go by the assumption that unicycling is a most rediculous form of transportation, then the idea of racing said cycles is truly silly. This isn’t to say that it shouldn’t be done, but we need to take this thing with a grain of salt.

Talking about setting speed “records” on a unicyle is sorta like saying I hold the record for hopping on one leg for 26.2 miles. Sure, if you’re missing a leg you might be maximizing your potential as a physicaly challenged athlete, but a person with two legs setting said record is just being silly.

Now this is just my opinion, so no need to flame (I’m heat proof anyhow).

I am as thrilled as the next person with gear advances, but in the end it’s still a unicycle, and unicycling is pretty durn silly :stuck_out_tongue:

12

Well, based on the legth and intensityof you post, I’d say you must have stirred up a yellow jacket next :roll_eyes:

I’m not any sort of unicyclist like you, I’m a newbie, but I excell in a number of other sports where “size” and equipment can quickly lead to an advanatge. What I’d like to do is offer some suggestion as you how it can be handled.

In mountain biking, there is often a seperate class for single speed bikes, of course there usually aren’t too many of these folks, however there are some single speed dedicated races. The idea here is having gears often results in a faster lap time.

In downriver whitewater kayak racing, the classes are broken up by boat type and length, the idea being that longer boats are faster boats, and that specialized racing hulls can be way faster.

So you see, it doesn’t have to be a geared versus ungeared race. We can ride and race together, but we compete within our class; wheel size, guni, uneared, age, sex, shoe size, etc…

Now I do have one opinion that you may not like, but I think it still needs to be said, esp after reading your very long winded rant:

If you bring a burro to a horse race, you aren’t really horse racing.

If we go by the assumption that unicycling is a most rediculous form of transportation, then the idea of racing said cycles is truly silly. This isn’t to say that it shouldn’t be done, but we need to take this thing with a grain of salt.

Talking about setting speed “records” on a unicyle is sorta like saying I hold the record for hopping on one leg for 26.2 miles. Sure, if you’re missing a leg you might be maximizing your potential as a physicaly challenged athlete, but a person with two legs setting said record is just being silly.

Now this is just my opinion, so no need to flame (I’m heat proof anyhow).

I am as thrilled as the next person with gear advances, but in the end it’s still a unicycle, and unicycling is pretty durn silly :stuck_out_tongue:

13

Rant? This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

inigo.jpg

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The idea (and fact!) that unicycling is silly is probably why the really serious athletes don’t take it up. They’re too into their own sports and don’t want to waste their time with something so … pointless, while those who get fit unicycling have too little incentive to spend the time required to even approach the level of super-humanity attained by the beasts. We have no Phelps or Armstrong, I think. I’m definitely not disputing the silliness :). If we were serious about going fast, we’d be on bikes. I think the reason we love racing unicycles so much is the feeling of doing it on only one wheel. It’s simply pleasurable to ride fast and balance, and I can’t explain why!

In computer science, I kind of like the idea of implementing known interfaces under funky assumptions that make things cool… maybe that’s why I like unicycling like cyclists ride, or at least trying to.

If you want to race a unicycle, you’re not bike racing, but you sure can race a unicycle if you want. This may be quite truistically (that a word??) pointless, but we’re bringing unicycles to unicycle races, I think.

p.s. Oh yeah; I tried not to make my post rant-like; I really intended it to be more rumination than anything. Sorry if you see it that way.

Also, to Mr. Holub, I do think 26+ mph is possible by the type of riders we see in the Tour de France. If one of those guys picked up a unicycle with an appropriate gear ratio, I don’t see any reason they couldn’t do 26 miles in an hour. It might not be something we ever see happen, but I’ll bet it’s possible. Since a statement like that is not falsifiable, though, it can’t be “true,” so, ultimately, you win :wink:

15

Wow, so humble… Thanks for writing that, Chuck. I think that cleared a lot up for a lot of people. I’ve been thinking of gearing up pretty soon and with all these advances in equipment, I’m not sure if it’s the right time even yet. There could be more to come sometime soon.

As far as the seriousness of unicycle racing goes, it’s not as competitive as bikes yet (and it may never be) but the sport is steadily growing in dedicated athletes. I’m sure a lot of people went into RTL in a relaxed state, then suddenly went into competitive mode (I know my team did). If we have more races like this, many more unicyclists will be converts of the GUni and really strive to be the best and fastest riders they can be.

I was thinking there is no point to seeing if we can get to the same speeds as a competitive bike rider, but thinking again, I’m sure there will be someone to come along that is a little crazier for the speed on a uni that they wont care how fast they have to pedal or what risks they will have to take to get there. But right now, there has hasn’t been someone to show us that future and right now bicyclists ultimately have that obvious advantage of that extra wheel and ability to coast. (I think I`m rambling)

Either way, I’d like to congratulate and thank Chuck for that write up and recent accomplishments. Also, I would like to thank him and all the other top riders of RTL and Unicon for shining a light on what potential geared unicycles have in the future.

16

Silliness is relative. Is it because of the efficiency of transport?

It is pretty silly to be riding a bike when you could drive a car and get much faster from A to B is it not?

Why then would you choose to ride a bike?

And why would you walk or run when unicycling is so much faster? The Unicycling Marathon record now sits at 1hr 27min. The running marathon record sits at just over 2hrs.

Is silliness a reflection on what people are used to? If you were from a culture that had never seen either bikes or unicycles. Which would look more silly? Balancing on two wheels? Balancing on one wheel?

17

What an interesting, open and sincere discussion! Wow.

My personal opinion on categories is that we should continue to have two classes: “standard” and “unlimited”, with the current definitions. Standard just preserves the legacy of unicycling and gives continuity of the old line of records into the future. All the rest should move along with technical evolution - I don’t think we should spawn a new category with every major technical step change. It’s kind of bad for me personally, because I haven’t been able (yet?) to get used to geared riding. But I’m old and slow anyway (just under 1:56 on the marathon on a fixed 36").

I said to Dustin this week that even Chuck’s current marathon time is way slower than what an accomplished road bicyclist could do on the marathon. The upright bicycle hour record is, what, 55 km? Chuck could maybe do about 31 or 32 km as an hour record? That gap is still huge in my opinion. Not to demean Chuck’s riding abiliby but there is no physical reason for such a big gap, I think. There will always be some gap because the unicyclist needs to ‘keep reserve’ to correct fore-aft balance, but a margin of 10-15 km/h should be really enough for that.

My guess is that within 10 years the unicycling world hour record is more than 40 km/h (that’s 24.8 mph), with the right type of top rider, matching the right type of unicycle (wheel size and gear). That equates to a marathon approaching 1 hour (1:03 something). Twenty years from now, I wouldn’t be surprised at even more than 45!

The future should be exiting!

18

I agree with the two different classes? In some sports its is an advantage in how much money you can put in to your ride. Like RC car racing and biketrials(something I did in the past). Equipment does matter, but the person still has to perform.
Another example was when I put on a unitrials event. A guy showed up with clipless pedals. He crushed all of us. Everyone there cried foul. It made me think. Do we need two classes or should everybody just work harder to get better. Who knows.

19

Aay!
You got in-a there before me!

20

Clearwater Florida 10k Unicycle Race

In Late January or early February, I am planning the 1st Annual Unicycle 10k Race. No limit on wheel size and the course begins at Sand Key Park, two bridges with a beautiful view of Clearwater Beach along the route with a 10% grade, ending in downtown Clearwater Coachman Park. Proceeds to local non-profits. Any ideas will be helpful. Please contact me via email and a phone number. :sunglasses: