Firewire, Win98, Win98SE, DV, sony TRV17, unicycles, and my slow PC

General
1

All,

OK I am going to bite the bullet and buy a Sony TRV17 miniDV
camcorder, and I am looking at the kinds of things I will need to
actually put the data to PC.

I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to have
to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use the
original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I would
upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really
what I want. I am avoiding XP for 2 reasons: one, I have heard some
firewire stuff doesnt work across the board with it; two, I resent the
fact that XP sends all kinds of information to microsoft and that I
have to go through them if I reinstall too often or to enable the key.
I re-fdisk and re-format my hard drive every 2 months as a matter of
principle (and habit). So, looks like I’ll go 98SE. Do you recommend
anything else?

My next hurdle is the PC itself. I have a p2-450 with 128 MB of ram,
but with good components since I have recently upgraded video,
cdburners, hard drives, etc. Is it even REMOTELY possible to do some
minimal editing on such a PC? Honestly, at first, I just want to suck
the data over to my IDE hard drive from the camcorder and make some
unedited (just cropped) unicycle footage of me and a friend. Can I
even squeak by for a few months on a PC? Or is it impossible?

Finally, at least until I get a new PC and figure out what all I
want/need on the hardware and firewire and performance side, I will be
needing a pci to firewire card. Any recommendations? I was looking at
an adaptec product, dvpics plus I think, because it comes with a pci
card, I trust adaptec, and it comes with some video editing software.
However, if I wanted to just buy one of them maxtor 50 dollar cards
and if the sony software that comes with the camcorder is OK, would
that work?

Later down the line, say 2-6 months, I may also upgrade my PC after I
get a few paychecks under the belt. Any recommendations for a modest
hardware upgrade and components/motherboards/devices that will serve
me well for doing more advanced video editing in the future?

Lewis Beard
lewis@lwb.org

2

“Lewis W Beard” <lewis@lwb.org> wrote in message
news:c581d835.0201251238.4476ebd4@posting.google.com…
> All,
>
> OK I am going to bite the bullet and buy a Sony TRV17 miniDV
> camcorder, and I am looking at the kinds of things I will need to
> actually put the data to PC.
>
> I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to have
> to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use the
> original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I would
> upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really
> what I want. I am avoiding XP for 2 reasons: one, I have heard some
> firewire stuff doesnt work across the board with it; two, I resent the
> fact that XP sends all kinds of information to microsoft and that I
> have to go through them if I reinstall too often or to enable the key.
> I re-fdisk and re-format my hard drive every 2 months as a matter of
> principle (and habit). So, looks like I’ll go 98SE. Do you recommend
> anything else?

I got a win98se update (not upgrade) for $20 or so. Definitely the
cheapest. Win2k IS GREAT but there is a learning curve and it’s
expensive.

>
> My next hurdle is the PC itself. I have a p2-450 with 128 MB of ram,
> but with good components since I have recently upgraded video,
> cdburners, hard drives, etc. Is it even REMOTELY possible to do some
> minimal editing on such a PC? Honestly, at first, I just want to suck
> the data over to my IDE hard drive from the camcorder and make some
> unedited (just cropped) unicycle footage of me and a friend. Can I
> even squeak by for a few months on a PC? Or is it impossible?
>
Editing should be ok, it’s rendering that really sucks up the cpu. BUT
you
can let the computer do that while you sleep. Now to be honest, I do 2
minute movies so my needs are light. If you want hours, get a really
fast
Athlon XP. Capture doesn’t need a fast CPU, there you need two HD’s,
one
nice and fast and BIG. 3.6 meg per SECOND. So with the right HD, yes
you s
hould be ok. My setup is fine and I’m an 800 mhz Athlon, better than
you
setup but not exactly fast these days.

> Finally, at least until I get a new PC and figure out what all I
> want/need on the hardware and firewire and performance side, I will be
> needing a pci to firewire card. Any recommendations? I was looking at
> an adaptec product, dvpics plus I think, because it comes with a pci
> card, I trust adaptec, and it comes with some video editing software.
> However, if I wanted to just buy one of them maxtor 50 dollar cards
> and if the sony software that comes with the camcorder is OK, would
> that work?

Buy a firewire card with the editing software you want. If you don’t
know
buy something low end and learn. Sony sells a package with two DV
tapes,
firewire card and a Pinnacle Studio 7 clone for $100. I’d go that way.

>
> Later down the line, say 2-6 months, I may also upgrade my PC after I
> get a few paychecks under the belt. Any recommendations for a modest
> hardware upgrade and components/motherboards/devices that will serve
> me well for doing more advanced video editing in the future?

Win2k, 1800+ Athlon XP, 512 meg of DDR, 60 MB 7200 HD, nVidia MX400 64
MB
video card. Just my 2 cents worth.

>
> Lewis Beard
> lewis@lwb.org

3

In rec.video.desktop Lewis W Beard <lewis@lwb.org> wrote:
> I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to have
> to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use the
> original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I would
> upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really

> I re-fdisk and re-format my hard drive every 2 months as a matter of
> principle (and habit). So, looks like I’ll go 98SE. Do you recommend
> anything else?

Why not bite the bullet and go with 2000? It is great, and you will
not
have to bother with the re-fdisk and reformat business. Once you get
2000
going, it will not give you trouble. Period. I recently updated to
2000
on my home machine (which gets used for family stuff, internet surfing,
gaming, and yes, video editing) back in August, and I don’t think it’s
ever crashed on me yet. It gets turned off for maintenance more than it
gets rebooted.

> My next hurdle is the PC itself. I have a p2-450 with 128 MB of ram,
> but with good components since I have recently upgraded video,
> cdburners, hard drives, etc. Is it even REMOTELY possible to do some
> minimal editing on such a PC? Honestly, at first, I just want to suck
> the data over to my IDE hard drive from the camcorder and make some
> unedited (just cropped) unicycle footage of me and a friend. Can I
> even squeak by for a few months on a PC? Or is it impossible?

It’ll be fine. What you should be worried about is how fast your hard
drive can capture video (you need a sustained transfer rate of at least
4
megs/sec). Not a problem at all in modern PCs, shouldn’t be a problem
in
yours if your drive supports UDMA.

Your CPU speed is a bit slow, but that’ll just mean you have to wait a
bit longer for renders and stuff. No big deal.

> needing a pci to firewire card. Any recommendations? I was looking at
> an adaptec product, dvpics plus I think, because it comes with a pci
> card, I trust adaptec, and it comes with some video editing software.
> However, if I wanted to just buy one of them maxtor 50 dollar cards
> and if the sony software that comes with the camcorder is OK, would
> that work?

There is no video editing software in the Sony camcorder package (at
least, not in mine…) I suggest Pyro DV or Studio DV. Can’t go
wrong
with either of those.

Enjoy!

–
Kevin

4

“Lewis W Beard” <lewis@lwb.org> wrote in message
news:c581d835.0201251238.4476ebd4@posting.google.com…
> All,
>
> OK I am going to bite the bullet and buy a Sony TRV17 miniDV
> camcorder, and I am looking at the kinds of things I will need to
> actually put the data to PC.
>
> I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to have
> to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use the
> original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I would
> upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really
> what I want. I am avoiding XP for 2 reasons: one, I have heard some
> firewire stuff doesnt work across the board with it;

SNIP
I just bought a new Compaq pc with windows xp, and took my firewire card
out
of my old win 98 machine and put in the new one, and I can not get xp to
install the card. Does anyone know any fixes? It’s a pyro 1394 pci card.

David

5

“David M.” <res09m4f@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:h6s48.2205$i4.758267@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net…
>
> “Lewis W Beard” <lewis@lwb.org> wrote in message
> news:c581d835.0201251238.4476ebd4@posting.google.com…
> > All,
> >
> > OK I am going to bite the bullet and buy a Sony TRV17 miniDV
> > camcorder, and I am looking at the kinds of things I will need to
> > actually put the data to PC.
> >
> > I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to
have
> > to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use
the
> > original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I would
> > upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really
> > what I want. I am avoiding XP for 2 reasons: one, I have heard some
> > firewire stuff doesnt work across the board with it;
>
> SNIP
> I just bought a new Compaq pc with windows xp, and took my firewire
card
out
> of my old win 98 machine and put in the new one, and I can not get xp
to
> install the card. Does anyone know any fixes? It’s a pyro 1394 pci
card.
>
> David
>

may seem a silly remark but have you been to the pyro website for
drivers.
secondly you could try forcing xp to accept the card by going to add
hardware and installing the 1394.inf from C:\WINDOWS\inf

there are also 3rd party websites that have ieee1394 drivers, just do a
search

well it workd with me.

6

You could screw around with all this stuff, and hopefully it will all
work together. On the other hand, for as little as $799 you could buy
an iMac. It will have built-in firewire, and comes with the iMovie
software, which is generally considered the best consumer level video
editing program. Basically you plug in your trv-17 and are ready to
go. Note: the $799 base model off course includes monitor, built in
modem, built-in ethernet, soundcard, speakers, photo-editing software,
etc.

Just a suggestion!

> > >
> > > OK I am going to bite the bullet and buy a Sony TRV17 miniDV
> > > camcorder, and I am looking at the kinds of things I will need to
> > > actually put the data to PC.
> > >
> > > I have Windows 98. From what I have heard, I am probably going to
have
> > > to upgrade to 98SE or later, for the firewire support. I still use
the
> > > original Windows 98 first edition upgrade I’ve had forever. I
would
> > > upgrade to windows 2000 or ME but I am not sure if they are really
> > > what I want. I am avoiding XP for 2 reasons: one, I have heard
some
> > > firewire stuff doesnt work across the board with it;

7

“DanK” <dan9876@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b613a2a6.0201270558.4db1fb1d@posting.google.com…
> You could screw around with all this stuff, and hopefully it will all
> work together. On the other hand, for as little as $799 you could buy
> an iMac. It will have built-in firewire, and comes with the iMovie
> software, which is generally considered the best consumer level video
> editing program. Basically you plug in your trv-17 and are ready to
> go. Note: the $799 base model off course includes monitor, built in
> modem, built-in ethernet, soundcard, speakers, photo-editing software,
> etc.

Can you expand that? To more/bigger harddrives and perhaps a DVD Burner?

8

Just checking the Apple website, and a brand-spanking new imac (new design even) totally maxed out is $1800. That comes with a G4 800Mhz (probably to a 1.6Ghz PC) DVD burner and 60 gig HD. As far as I know, the only thing expandable on the actual unit is RAM due to it’s size. But, you can buy an external Firewire hard drive (which turn out to be just about as quick).

The other option of the older imac for $800 is well, less. It would probably do ok with video editing, but not great. Upgrades are the same as with the other one.

If you really want an editing machine, their desktop that runs for about $3700 will cover you for a few years. (At which time you will still be paying for it!)

I used my brother’s 6-month old mac over Christmas to make a video… about 3 minutes long. We did 10 minutes of filming, and the editing took about an hour total. That includes downloading the video off the camera, placing the background music, splicing the video in the proper order, and adding effects. It’s a really smooth program. I personally don’t have need for anything with more features. Rather pricey, but I really liked it, even though I am using Win98 right now.

If you want everything to be easy and straightforward, go with the mac. If price is a concern, go with a PC.

9

Thanks for all the advice everybody.

For me, price is a concern. I will therefore probably buy an adaptec firewire card with editing software ($79), suck it up and buy Win98SE ($89), and maybe a wee bit more memory ($30) and be done. Then I will mess around with simple video editing.

Later on down the line, I will upgrade my motherboard, processor, and memory, which I will probably be able to do for $700. That will probably be in a few months. It really depends on whether or not I can squeak by on the above $200 upgrade.

Lewis

10

(he only has $300 ear-marked for the board, memmory and processor- the rest is for the unicycle-styled case fan, neon case lights keyed off the sub-woofer, and nose art)

Christopher

11

> Can you expand that? To more/bigger harddrives and perhaps a
> DVD Burner?

The iMac comes in something like three “sizes,” with bigger hard drives and
more memory. They are not intended to be expandable. In return for this, you
get a computer that plugs in and works, doesn’t have wires all over the
place, and basically is compatible with anything that’s made to plug into
it.

I think the new iMacs will have a DVD burner available, at least on the
higher model. It’s also getting raves for its design. More kudos for Apple.

I still prefer the Windows interface (probably because I’m more used to it),
but I do not prefer the way Microsoft tries to force us all to use their
various other products…

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“You’re not supposed to wash your Roach armor” - Nathan Hoover, on safety
equipment cleaning methods

12

“Chris” <chrisfewer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a34sd0$1604a2$1@ID-99664.news.dfncis.de>…
> “DanK” <dan9876@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b613a2a6.0201270558.4db1fb1d@posting.google.com…
> > You could screw around with all this stuff, and hopefully it will all
> > work together. On the other hand, for as little as $799 you could buy
> > an iMac. It will have built-in firewire, and comes with the iMovie
> > software, which is generally considered the best consumer level video
> > editing program. Basically you plug in your trv-17 and are ready to
> > go. Note: the $799 base model off course includes monitor, built in
> > modem, built-in ethernet, soundcard, speakers, photo-editing software,
> > etc.
>
> Can you expand that? To more/bigger harddrives and perhaps a DVD Burner?

External harddrives are not a problem: use firewire drives to connect
to the firewire port. As for DVD burners: the top-of-the-line model
($1799)comes with a built-in DVD burner. External burners should not
be a problem; the iMacs have both firewire and USB.

13

“DanK” <dan9876@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b613a2a6.0201310813.5a470b65@posting.google.com…
> “Chris” <chrisfewer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<a34sd0$1604a2$1@ID-99664.news.dfncis.de>…
> > “DanK” <dan9876@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:b613a2a6.0201270558.4db1fb1d@posting.google.com…
> > > You could screw around with all this stuff, and hopefully it will all
> > > work together. On the other hand, for as little as $799 you could buy
> > > an iMac. It will have built-in firewire, and comes with the iMovie
> > > software, which is generally considered the best consumer level video
> > > editing program. Basically you plug in your trv-17 and are ready to
> > > go. Note: the $799 base model off course includes monitor, built in
> > > modem, built-in ethernet, soundcard, speakers, photo-editing software,
> > > etc.
> >
> > Can you expand that? To more/bigger harddrives and perhaps a DVD Burner?
>
> External harddrives are not a problem: use firewire drives to connect
> to the firewire port. As for DVD burners: the top-of-the-line model
> ($1799)comes with a built-in DVD burner. External burners should not
> be a problem; the iMacs have both firewire and USB.

Well. I’ll have to wait untill my PC is obsolete… there we go… 30
seconds are up! :wink: