fat vs thin tyres?

Hi everyone,

was out on a night ride yesterday, so had some time to think about stuff
and I was wondering why everyone seems to use really fat tyres on their
Munis. From riding with bikers, the consensus there seems to be to use
much narrower tyres in mud as then you can grip the ground below the mud
well. I can see that for really trialsy stuff a fat tyre is a good
thing, but for almost all xc type riding, might it be better to use a
smaller tyre.

Thought about this because it’s been really muddy round near me and you
can really feel the extra weight of all the mud on a gazaloddi tyre.

Anyone got thoughts on this?

Joe

One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.

Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much better for that.

There are probably other reasons, but I can’t think of them right now.

Ben

I think we actualy have a bit of an advantage over bikers in this regard- since our weight is not spread over 2 points, and our drive wheel is directly under our center of gravity, when the tire hits that firm ground under the mud (assuming there is firm ground before the top of your wheel dissapears into the muck) we actualy engage it instead of sliding on top of it.

The first time I experienced this phinomina (sp?), I was too buisy pedaling to question why I was “walking on water”.

They tell me Nokia makes a ‘mud’ tire, with wider tread patern but simmilar volume to the Gazz. I whine when my little 2.1 tire get’s loaded with mud- can’t imagine the Gazz. On something like the Wilder, it would probably double the uni’s weight!

Christopher

“Ben Plotkin-Swing” <forum.member@unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:a2me6l$9d6$1@laurel.tc.umn.edu
> One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low
> presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use
> skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.
> Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much better
> for that.

I can see the shock thing, I know my muni goes boing lovely like when I
ride drops on it.

If you’re doing trials, or the more difficult end of muni where trials
skills are pretty important then obviously a big fat tyre is useful,
but if you’re only riding singletrack XC type stuff you usually don’t
need to hop.

Basically anything you’d find in your average mtb race doesn’t need any
hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
absorption.

I’ll have to try it sometime, only I’ve got a pashley, so changing the
tyre is a total hassle. Hmm, I see a new toy coming on if I can find
the space…

Anyone know anything about this Cordy unicycle, this looks like a pretty
cool cross country thing.
http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=501

Joe

— Joe Marshall <news@joemarshall.org.uk> wrote:
> Basically anything you’d find in your average mtb race doesn’t need any
> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
> absorption. [snip]

OK but you don’t have to hop to appreciate a fat tire. I like my fat tire
even for easy trails because the shock absorbtion makes riding so much
more comfortable.

For mud, it might make sense to have skinny tires on a mountain bike
because they have the momentum to plow through the mud, even if they sink
in. On a MUni you typically stop dead if you sink into deep mud- I’d
rather have a fat tire that keeps me on top as much as possible.

If the Gazz 24x3.0 seems too heavy, take a look at Arrow Racing’s 24x3"
tire. It is slightly lower volume, lighter weight, and has a rounder
profile that’s arguably better for cross-country riding. An Alex DX32 rim
is also noticably lighter than a Sun Doublewide.

-Kris.

— Joe Marshall <news@joemarshall.org.uk> wrote:
> “Ben Plotkin-Swing” <forum.member@unicyclist.com> wrote in message
> news:a2me6l$9d6$1@laurel.tc.umn.edu
> > One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low
> > presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use
> > skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.
> > Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much better
> > for that.
>
> I can see the shock thing, I know my muni goes boing lovely like when I
> ride drops on it.
>
> If you’re doing trials, or the more difficult end of muni where trials
> skills are pretty important then obviously a big fat tyre is useful,
> but if you’re only riding singletrack XC type stuff you usually don’t
> need to hop.
>
> Basically anything you’d find in your average mtb race doesn’t need any
> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
> absorption.
>
> I’ll have to try it sometime, only I’ve got a pashley, so changing the
> tyre is a total hassle. Hmm, I see a new toy coming on if I can find the
> space…
>
> Anyone know anything about this Cordy unicycle, this looks like a pretty
> cool cross country thing.
> http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=501
>
> Joe
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________-
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> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu


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The Cordy looks rather inviting.
Another thing you could do is add dead weight onto your unicycle and ride around like that, when you take off this weight to ride again your unicycle will seem much lighter. You could probably use something similiar to what baseball players put on their bats, just put one on each side of the frame.

I know that for the mud here in minnesota there has to be something better than whats being used. it’s realy thick heavy concrete like mud that likes to stick to everything. tires like the gazz or intense get filled up with mud and then you have mud slipping on more mud. I ordered a geax blade that is supose to be a good mud tire that I am excited to tryout when it comes.
I think that at least for the riding here, a tire that sheads mud well would work better than a tire that is 3 inches wide.

peter

I think it is not quite that simple. The mud is on the tire which you not only carry but also crank around. The moment of inertia has increased substantially. Also, riding in the mud adds considerable drag. To simulate the two conditions, weights must be added to the wheel, not the frame, and an anchor must be thrown out behind the rider.
A dead goat might be a good anchor to test with.

mud tires

i just had the muddiest ride last weekend
and the Maxxis 2.7 Mobster performed very well.

How about a live goat?

harper wrote:

> I think it is not quite that simple. The mud is on the tire which you not only carry but also crank around. The moment of inertia has increased substantially. Also, riding in the mud adds considerable drag. To simulate the two conditions, weights must be added to the wheel, not the frame, and an anchor must be thrown out behind the rider.
>
> A dead goat might be a good anchor to test with.
>
> AccordNSX wrote:
> > Another thing you could do is add dead weight onto your unicycle and
> > ride around like that, when you take off this weight to ride again your
> > unicycle will seem much lighter. You could probably use something
> > similiar to what baseball players put on their bats, just put one on
> > each side of the frame.
>
> –
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://unicyclist.com/forums

A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about in an annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must be in some way spherical…a large turtle or an armadillo might suffice.

I was reading about a group that xc skied to the South Pole and for
training they ran with car tires dragging behind them (as a substitute
for a sled). If that isn’t enough of a challenge you could use tractor
tires!

Jeff

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:55:27 +0000 (UTC) harper
<forum.member@unicyclist.com> writes:
>
>
> A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about
> in an annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must
> be in some way spherical…a large turtle or an armadillo might
> suffice.
>
> John Zanetti wrote:
> > How about a live goat?
>
>
> –
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://unicyclist.com/forums
>


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On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:55:27 +0000 (UTC), harper
<forum.member@unicyclist.com> wrote:

>A live goat would not provide uniform drag.
Nor would mud.

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“public key encryption, SSL, ddos”

Kris Holm <danger_uni@yahoo.com> wrote:
> — Joe Marshall <news@joemarshall.org.uk> wrote:
>> Basically anything you’d find in your average mtb race doesn’t need
any
>> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful
British
>> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
>> absorption. [snip]

> For mud, it might make sense to have skinny tires on a mountain bike
because they have the
> momentum to plow through the mud, even if they sink in. On a MUni you
typically stop dead if you
> sink into deep mud- I’d rather have a fat tire that keeps me on top as
much as possible.

In my experience the precise nature of the mud is very important in
all of this. The thick, sticky, heavy clay that we get in the area
near London is a real pain whatever you do for tyres. The mud builds
up on the tyre and a) removes all traction b) clogs up between the
frame and tyre. The best designs for this do seem to be the narrower
tyres with mud-shedding knobs. You still have only a little traction,
but at least the wheel can turn! In the Chiltern beech-woods, the
mud is a totally different beast altogether - a firm gravel base with
a light (but usually very wet and quite deep) leaf-litter based mud
that clears easily and still allows the tyre to sink through to the
firmer base. A bigger, grippier tyre seems to work better here as you
can utilise the better traction. Riding in this is hard work as you
are always digging a new trench (don’t worry about path erosion - the
mud just flows back into the groove as soon as you’ve ridden through!)
but it is a great workout!


Paul Selwood
paul@vimes.u-net.com http://www.vimes.u-net.com

I like to carry a lasso with me - the first person to utter a cocky
comment
wins the honour. Agreed… humans are not spherical… but it does add
to
the riding enjoyment - especially when going round corners and landing
big
drops.

----- Original Message -----
From: “harper” <forum.member@unicyclist.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.unicycling
To: <rsu@unicycling.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: fat vs thin tyres?

>
>
> A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about
in an
annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must be in some
way
spherical…a large turtle or an armadillo might suffice.
>
> John Zanetti wrote:
> > How about a live goat?
>
>
> –
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://unicyclist.com/forums
>


> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu