Thanks for info. Not in the slightest. I’m pleased to know CrMo is tough. I’ll now have to suss out the best CrMo hub. Really like the KH moment (what I have currently) - but am curious about the mad4one ISIS one and also the one-piece nimbus…
Any views? I have already read tons on the forum re pros and cons, but if you wanted the toughest hub which would you buy?
A lot of people have reported serious problems with KH Moment hubs for the last several years, so consider yourself lucky that you’re happy with yours. UDC finally gave me a Nimbus CrMo hub to replace mine, and since then I have had no hub problems at all. I do a lot of drops (though none higher than 30cm or so yet) and weigh 90kg. My Nimbus hub never utters a peep.
Also, in my experience jtrops is very knowledgeable about anything having to do with unicycle components, tools and building unicycles out of improvised or traditional materials, so if he recommends CrMo, I would go with that.
I am aiming at building either a LM 24" with a triton frame or going for the rabbit hole 29er again in a triton. Already love my Oregon, but feel like a tough smaller uni would be excellent. Or a 29" for my 29th!
So basically it would be for Muni/XC, and I simply like the idea of it being as rock solid a wheel/uni as possible.
Regarding the above comments about KH hub problems, looking at the forum I can’t see anything dated 2014 - Does anyone know if the creek issues have been fixed? Naturally curious as I’m just in the processes of getting a KH36 - no problems with my KH20, but it would be helpful to know if the current batch of hubs have rectified the creek issue reported here.
Thanks for all the advice, and sorry for going a tad off topic!
I do not have a recent KH hub so I cannot comment on creaking problems but I got for several years a wheelset with a LM 26 and a KH Moment hub (the very first one that is blue circa 2008) and it was a bombproof wheel that I rode around and got thrown in UPDs and nothing ever moved. And it is a hub design that got bent on the flanges by the most hardcore riders.
Long story short, except for design flaws that can show/be heard riding in your driveway, you can build anything with a Large Marge and be safe. And if you end-up killing your hub, you can always take pictures, brag about your riding skills and laugh that your LM hasn’t flinched
I ride ti frames/hubs/spokes/nipples and soon seat post clamps.
I use 2 Exceeds for years now, and they still are great.
And have the 3th shipping to me.
jtrops used the word tough; that certainly counts for CrMo.
But in martial art you learn that if you don’t bend, you will break.
I think you can’t compare the two, but Ti is a bit better in dealing with recovering from malforming-forces, and CrMo may be a bit better in heavy forces.
In “practical strength” I would rank them at least between normal and tempered Chromolydeen, and maybe even better (due to the flexibility of no compare).
So in absolute numbers… I’m highly curious: did anyone ever broke (or damaged) one of those exceeds (from riding)?
Strongest 100mm ISIS hub? I think the K1 is great, but the narrow flange makes shitty wheels, and certainly are freaking annoying when you break a spoke: you will need to remove the bearing to be able to replace it.
The one I bought certainly is NOT straight, and I heard some people broke them.
So I think the best choice would be this Nimbus, but I doubt a bit if it’s 100% tempered CrMo, but at least the most important part (the spindle) is!
I would certainly dare to trust those for my own actions.
About Ti spokes: not are bad, but certainly they are not easy. For about 3 years I’m now using ti spokes on the far majority of all my wheels. The only benefits: a nonsense amount of grams less, and no corrosion; and so less cleaning needed: not even when the roads are wet and salty. But they need more maintenance: they require VERY equal tention (and attention). Once one become more tight than the rest, then that one will snap easily.
And often once one is broken the next will break within minutes.
Ti spokes that are anodized is truly waste of money, and waste of material: the spoke become as “strong” as the film on it. Basicly one scratch and your spoke is gone. Bare ti is the least bad.
All my spokes are over 25 years old, and custom cut for me: nowadays producers simply don’t make good bends anymore!
However I tried 34r (ha, CZ!), and I broke a few at the thread side, but I highly doubt they come in any well-fitting sizes for any unicycle wheel.
Hmm, I’m not sure martial arts is a terribly useful comparison. Certainly not when material properties are such that not only will Ti flex more than CrMo for a given force, but it will also take less force to permanently deform it. That’s for a given dimension, but with an ISIS axle your dimensions are limited and I’m not seeing any noticeable oversizing of other parts of this hub so I think that is a reasonable comparison. What I think you’re alluding to is that ti will flex more than CrMo before it bends permanently (and it will also bend more before it completely breaks - elongation), but that’s not terribly useful given that the force required to bend and break it is still lower.
All else being equal, something made from CrMo will be stronger than something made from ti (clearly things aren’t equal, but I’m certainly not seeing anything in ti hub design to suggest they’ll make up for the difference in material properties). But then the ti ones are probably strong enough for ordinary mortals as you suggest, and you seem to agree that a Nimbus hub is likely the strongest you can get.
The latter two advantages you mention you also get with stainless steel spokes - at least I can see no corrosion on any of the ones on my bike wheels, some of which are more than 20 years old and have been used in all conditions without much love. The former, well I’m a weight weenie and just use butted steel spokes which can only weigh a tiny amount more. Though I don’t think we’re in any big disagreement on this either.
It’s perhaps useful to point out that racecar roll cages are usually built from drawn-over-mandrel chrome-molybdenum alloy tubing, and not titanium. Chrome-moly alloy is very strong, stronger than titanium, although it is heavier. The race car guys accept the extra weight for the extra strength.
They use Ti on the space shuttle to save weight, but I’ll bet they’d use Cro-Mo if they could. (Just my opinion, of course.)
No relation, racecars roll cages (made of 15CDV6 or 25CD4S steels) are directly welded to the car body which is made of steel and not titanium (for better car strength), titanium roll cage would not allow the same concept. Suspension springs need very high strength and are made of titanium instead of steel for weight saving on moving parts for some racecars. Conrods on race engines are usually made of titanium instead of steel …
It was for those who have more empathy for their own bones than for their hubs.
But yes, I’m aware there are unicyclists who may care about neither.
But on second thought; bones can be unbelievable flexible, so the comparison is better than I thought.
Comparing two different things is always difficult, whether it’s bones v hubs, or hubs versus hubs. But from your reply I understand you understood me correct, and were able to word it better.
In what kind of digits/scale should I think? Is this something a human (or two) easily could possible produce?
Non-riding causes or plane stupid reasons disregarded, I think most hub failures are because of bad welding or fatal overheating (making the material too rigid), or bad material. I’m still highly curious if there are any Exceed failures known.
One other good thing about those: the holes are exactly correct positions (in relation to the other flange). With non-CNC’ed hubs that’s not always straight in the middle.
For a 42x100mm ISIS hub that is, yes. Aside from the fact that I prefer larger flanges anyway.
And I do have to mention I only have experience with their similar 32h drive model.
Aside from the winter salt I mentioned, I guess you don’t live close to the beach plus in a very humid climate. It can make stainless steel corrode badly!
If weight is the issue, then alloy nipples will bring more benefit at the point where mass transforms to force. For me; freestyle, being too light is making some things harder (getting no “feedback-force”).
Alloy nipples are bytheway some weaker also: i recently had one that simply split open!
IMHO I think -since I think double butted breaks easier- it’s a bit decadent in the same way as Ti is :). But if it works without failure then that’s great. But I wonder: what brand/type works flawless for you?
More a construction issue than a material issue, me thinks (since the very first one I saw).
I think in my previous post (which crossed your post - as I took a break, and didn’t see yours) I said the same.
So, nice looks, but I never considered spending any money on that for serious riding purposes, and I’m not at all surprised about the failures.
…but there’s not much options in steel for that.
The CrMo Mad4One may be an option (if still produced), but I really don’t think such small flanges are good for my riding.
But your statement about 1-piece certainly still counts for those: having no welds eliminates weaker places.
For that reason I do like the K1 reinforced (which, ok, is not truly a 1 but a smart welded 2-piece construction). The first (and only) I bought was very not-straight (aside for above described bearing issue). So yes, the Exceed remains my currently favorite modern-material unicycle hub, and I’m about to receive my 3th.
Depends on how you design the hub. Too much effort to run the figures to work it out, but I’d suspect it possible to produce sufficiently high loads on typical typical hub dimensions for the difference between ti and CrMo to be significant given the abuse some people put their unis through. Not so much of an issue for you doing freestyle I wouldn’t have thought - at least when you’re not carrying young ladies around
I’m sure you’re right, but we can’t assume there will be no failures once we eliminate those issues with a one piece hub made from good material.
I live about as far from the sea as it is possible to in the UK! However for a country surrounded by the sea that’s not saying a lot and I kayak on the ocean so am well aware of the corrosion issues. We certainly have plenty of wet conditions and plenty of winter salt (and if I avoided riding in mud I wouldn’t ride off road much). Maybe ti spokes come into their own if you do lots of riding on the beach!
All true - I have alu* nipples on my weight weenie bike wheels, but wouldn’t recommend them to anybody else because of both the strength issues and that they tend to corrode in a way that brass ones don’t and so can seize (especially if you ride on the beach ) I doubt I will ever build a uni wheel with them.
Well that’s where you’re wrong. double butted are actually less likely to break in typical use, which is the most important reason for using them. The usual failure point for a spoke is at the bend (the next most likely is at the threads). These parts of the spoke have the same thickness on both plain gauge and double butted spokes, yet even on double butted spokes the bend is usually where they fail. Butting the spokes makes them more flexible, thus reducing the load on the vulnerable bend and making the spoke more resilient.
There is of course a downside in that the more flexible spokes create a more flexible - and hence weaker - wheel in just the same way as ti spokes do.
As for brands, I have both Sapim Race and DT Competition spokes in my wheels all of which have been flawless - my unicycle wheel builds have used DT Competitions.
*alu (short for aluminium, or aluminum if you’re a septic) rather than alloy, as the alternative material brass is actually one of the best know alloys!
Not every stainless steel spoke is the same. DT was always perfect for me, both on road as on the track. So as a 13 y/o I rather saved up some money for those than anythings else.
In typical use, yes. Your explanation translates to my bend or break comparison. From the number of complaints I hear -from different unicycle factory wheel builders, and from users- I get my doubts. It’s all true what you say. But I’m unable to test it myself; they don’t come in my size and are impossible to get them custom made: either the top is too thick for the holes, or the thin part is far too long to get them custom cut. That also counts for Alpina Raggi and Hoshi. Even if they state they make them, it still is impossible to order as nobody wants to stock those.
The mentioned K1 and especially the Nimbus have bigger holes, creating an option for at least that rare but nice single-butted 14/13 ga type.
I guess that can’t be worse than a plain 2.0 spoke.
And on bicycle wheels that’s less of an issue than I can only guess it is for unicycles. Coincidence or not, today I broke another ti spoke while making a seat-pushing twist-turn in traffic on very grippy stones.