Duro leopard vs surly knard

Ok, just bit it, I mean…bought it.

120 TPI , time for my Oregon to go on a major diet!
WOOOHOOO!

I have the Duro tyre (both 26 and 24), and I am very happy with it because it performs so well on wet roots, rocks and mud. The big knobs “locks on” to roots and “paddle” through mud. I have never tried the Surly Knard, but to me it does not look as good as the Duro. I understand that terrain and probably riding style has something to do with tyre choice.

From what I’ve read, the Knard is good in mostly dry conditions. It grips like crazy on rocks when it’s dry. Duro is better for dirt but sucks as soon as you get hard surfaces, especially when wet.

I haven’t tried the Knard, I’m based on what I’ve heard from other riders, I rode a Duro for a while on my 24" a few years ago, I liked it for the snow but not so much in the trails.

Overall, I think the Knard will be better for most riders as it is lighter and does pretty much the same job as the Duro, the Duro just looks meaner :stuck_out_tongue:

Can’t go by the weights on kh website. Kris said some are not correct or updated to add brake weight. The 24 should always be lighter than the 26 with same components from the same company. Now put a light weight tire on the 26 and things change.

When it comes to knob size like the duro vs the knard. Just look at the motorcycle industry. Most or all trials bikes and enduros come with low closely spaced knobs. Compared to motocross with larger big knobs. Now a lot has to do with traction for acceleration but, mostly for dirt conditions. Most muni riders ride on very hard packed single track or hard trails. We don’t need or use the duro style knobs. They won’t even penetrate thru the dirt. The trials style creepy crawler knobs are perfect. Even look at bmx and jump/pump track tire knob patterns. There tracks are hard packed also. The knard tread pattern looks great for most of us muni riders I think. Now if your trails are very soft or loose, that changes the story and your tire choice. I will be trying a knard soon for my Oregon. :slight_smile:

Some Duro Wildlife weights:
1570g (http://www.unicycle.com/duro-wildlife-leopard-tire.html)
1650 (Rubber is heavy! Duro, Duro, Duro. 3" tires)
1860g (http://www.unicycle.uk.com/unicycle-parts/tyres/duro-wildlife-leopard-26-x-3-tyre.html)

Some Surly Knard weights:
804g (http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/26-x-3-knards-893188-2.html#post11167904)
875g (http://www.bike24.com/p2113031.html)

So the Knard is roughly half the weight.

Now that my Duro is getting old and worn and the knobs in the middle section are only 1-2mm, I feel that I loose grip earlier. Also it’s harder to got through soft mud. It would be really great to have a Duro style knob geometry but with the weight of the Knard (and the price of the Duro :D) What helped a lot in dropping weight of the Duro was going tubeless. How’s the Knard performing tubeless?

Which doesn’t provide much evidence about how well a different tyre with a tread pattern designed to use smaller knobs will grip when it is new and still has good edges to the knobs which a worn tyre doesn’t have.

Well I just pulled the trigger on a new nimbus oracle 24. I’ll answer my own question. The duro tire maybe heavier than most but you sure don’t notice it. Love this tire… The oracle 24 rips. I have a 20 trials and nimbus 26. But the 24 is goldy locks.

How do you find the 24" compared to the 26"? I was undecided about which to get, but eventually ordered the Oracle 26".

My dh trails I ride are narrow with a lot of switch backs with very steep inclines in the turn. some of the rock gardens seem easier to hop thru then plow over. I find for what I ride the 24 or even my trials 20 work best. If I was just on easy winding trails I would be on my 26.

Just changed from Duro to Knard (120tpi, plus another tube) and the Muni lost 500 grams (rotating mass). What a difference on hardpack and road!
Also it seems to be more 3" than the Duro.

So far I love it.

Greetings

Byc

Yeah, same here, first day on it! Noticed immediate difference. It just simply rode better! AND, this is coming from a guy who loves his Duro!
Pure pleasure, was today’s loose gravel and hill ride on the Bay Trail.
Pros:
Significantly lighter>>
translates to a faster, smoother cadence, (and a big plus) which equates to less back pedal pressure for rapid corrections>> which translates to less effort, less fatigue, more achievable distance, and ultimately greater efficiency.

Softer, supple, grippier.
Bouncier, hops better with less effort.
Rounder profile, with much smaller, tighter knobs equals less roll resistence.
I rode on really loose gravel , and due to the sufficiently wide 3" I didnt notice any significant lost of traction as compared to the knobby Duro, thats because on non super technical rocky stuff, the Duro maybe an overkill. Unis’ in general, have really good traction and control, so in my opinion, in most cases we dont need as big knobs as we think, on 97% of the stuff.

CONS:

Only a couple I can think of as of today’s experience.
I lowered my pressure from 20psi (midfirm) to probably 15_17psi? (soft), definitely bottomed out when I hit a large bump or a dip. Im probably sure it folds over easier at a lower psi too, than the much stiffer no fold Duro. But thats ok, just dont lower it that low.

Due to its supple, grippy nature, Im sure it wont wear as well as the Duro.

Overall, an awesome new 26x3 120tpi tire! I definitely climbed better too, due to its nimbleness and the ability to make corrections fast to be out of the deadzone. Cant wait to try it on the really steep hills.
Loving it already. And when I wear it out bald, then that means I have that much further advanced in skills and will purchase another.

Ok, Im totally convinced on lighter tires, higher TPI’s from now on. :smiley:

Hi there

Silly question probably: I’ve got a Quax Muni 26’ (the steel frame one - bought it around 2 years ago if that helps to know wich model I’m referring to) with a 26x2.5 tyre at the moment which for the time being I’m happy with but wouldn’t mind to try that Surly knard 3’ (or any other 3’ for that matter) at some point. Does any of you knows if a 26 x 3’ (The Duro or the Knard) would fit in the Quax frame? :thinking:

Thanks

That’s a good question the product page from 2013 doesn’t answer :confused:

However, Measuring your frame (leg length and crown width) can help you guess if a Duro would fit (either by comparing with other frames know to host a Duro or by retrieving the tire width and height from somebody with a Duro).

From there, you have 3 cases:

B You frame doesn’t fit a Duro[/B]: you are out of luck and will have to stick with a 2.5 or 2.7 tire.

B You frame fits a Duro (tight fit)[/B]: that is the most common case. That means you cannot run a Surly Knard (too big) but you can give a try to the Surly Dirt Wizard (reported with the same volume as a Duro)

B You frame fits a Duro (wide marging)[/B]: this is the less likely case except if Qu-ax is making an insanely wide frame. However, that means the Surly Knard can fit.

According to the pic, it seems that the 2.5 tire has a good clearance on top so there is a chance a Duro can fit. If you don’t know somebody with a Duro, let us know so someone here can take measurement for you (or the search feature can find that in the old threads).

Re the 26x2.75 Dirt Wizard: this is a great tire but personally I’d classify it more as a high volume “normal” tire than a mid-fat 26+ tire. It has almost identical dimensions and feel to a Maxxis High Roller 26x2.7" tire (e.g. the tire that came with the 2014 KH26). As such it is lower volume than the Duro, which in turn is lower volume than the Knard.

I had another awesome ride today. Loved it on the steep stuff. Yeah, I can definitely climb better and longer as compared to the heavy Duro. Definitely easier to ‘throw around’ . Down hills, easier to gain control in around the rock gardens, which makes it less scary.

I could put much more torque and throw into the wheel that I felt on couple of occasions felt the tire slide or slip a little(“peel out”) , but not enough for me to lose balance. I guess I was still used to the heavier pressures needed for the Duro. Im sure with less knobby there’s lesser of a ‘bite’ into the really loose stuff. But Im sure with more experience on the Knard with being lighter footed, sorta quickly skimming through the loose stuff, i can make up the difference.

I believe Kh lineup did right by choosing the Knard on the 26"/29".
Simply Lovin it!

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer and the ‘Internet Archive’ link. Good stuff. Will follow your suggestions of measuremetns and comparing it to other frames etc… Thanks again :slight_smile:

24inch owners are getting some bad envy

At least the 24" Duro is a tad lighter. And the smaller wheel makes it maneuverable.
Having said that, will Surly come up with a 24" version of the Knard? :smiley: