Currency...

Just watching a show on TV about currency production in the US. I have a few questions…

  1. Are there any countries other than Australia using plastic money? Are any of you from these countries?
  • Surely there are…it works so much better!
  1. Doesn’t paper money wear out really quickly? What if it gets wet?
  • I was too young to be seriously dealing with money back when we were still using paper money here in Australia.
  1. Did America ever use something other than the decimal system for their currency (ie. pounds, shillings, and whatever else there is)? What would such a system be called?

  2. Are there any countries using all notes or all coins?

Here is a picture of Australia’s notes. I like them…especially 100’s. :wink:

Andrew

dollar.gif

If you’re interested in reading up on Australia’s polymer currency - http://www.rba.gov.au/CurrencyNotes/NotesInCirculation/index.html

  1. It’s called a credit card, lots of people use them. Sure it’s not as nice as Eftpos, but it works.

  2. I run money through the wash on accident all the time. It doesnt do any damage at all. No running or anthing. You could soak a dolalr for quite a long time and nothing would happen to it.

It doesn’t rip when it’s wet though?

We do here in Kiwiland, it works great. It was supposed to be “untearable” too, but it isn’t.

Though, I think actual cash is used less than Eftpos over here… Seriously, if eftpos went down for a day, it would not be pretty :stuck_out_tongue:

And I don’t really remember ‘paper’ money (it’s kinda recently we changed) - but from memory, it wasn’t paper, but something kinda cotton-like. I think. (Don’t quote me on that)

Edit: We have both notes and coins, so no weirdities here.

US currency doesnt rip too easily, but it does rip a little easier when wet. But it’s nothing to worry about. Almost all american banks will give you a crisp new ddollar if you have more than half of a dollar, ripped or not.

US paper money wears out and gets replaced. The banks take bills out of service that are ragged and old. They get shipped to the Treasury where the old bills get shredded and new bills printed to take their place.

There is lots of info about US money at the US Dept of Treasury and at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

Some facts from those sites:
-The average life for a $1 bill is about 22 months.
-The average life for a $100 bill is about 60 months.
-The paper is 25% linen and 75% cotton.
-95% of the notes printed each year are used to replace notes already in circulation. 45% of the notes printed are $1 notes.
-Have you ever wondered how many times you could fold a piece of currency before it would tear? About 4,000 double folds (first forward and then backwards) are required before a note will tear.

The Dept of the Treasury has a special department that deals with torn and mutilated money. If you end up with a mutilated bill (maybe it was buried treasure or a bunch of bills got run through the wash or burned in a house fire) you can take the damaged bills to the Treasury Dept and they’ll see how much they can salvage. As long as they can piece together more than 50% of the bill they will exchange it for a fresh new bill. Some of the details are here.

We (well the government) have tried $1 coins to replace the $1 bill but the coins never caught on with the people. It would make sense, but we like our paper money. $10 in coins is a big weight in your pocket compared to 10 $1 bills.

We had some strange money systems back in the “old” days. Old being 200 years ago or more (yeah you people in Europe and the UK can laugh). There was a period when gold was used. There was a period when other forms of money were used in different locations in the colonies. I’d have to dig around for some links to the history. It wasn’t always as organized as it is now with the government standing behind the value of the money and setting a national standard.

Wow, thanks John. I’m surprised that in this P.C. age they’re still required (by the two statutes they mention) to put “In God We Trust” on each note. They make a point of saying how they’ll fight to keep it there, but don’t explain why.

“The Department of the Treasury and the Department of Justice intend to actively defend against challenges to the use of the national motto. In 1992, a challenge was filed and successfully defeated in the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland.”

Andrew

Ireland used to use plastic notes until they became overcome by the euro a couple of years ago.

The old British pre-decimal system of pounds, shillings and pence didn’t really have a name that I know of. Now, in retrospect, it’s referred to as “pre-decimal” or “old money”. It was sometimes called LSD (L from Latin libra (pound), D from the Roman coin denarius), but other than that I don’t think it had a name.

Rob

There is another sovereign nation that uses plastic money. Here are its national heroes, Walt Lenin and Mickey Stalin standing in front of the seat of government:

And here is some of the currency:

I would have been hard pressed to believe that coins work for daily transactions more than a few months ago, but after living in switzerland for a bit and going to alot of EU countries where they have both 1euro and 2 euro coins here in switzerland there is even a 5chf coin. Now that I have used the system I really wish we got away with one dollar bills in the states.

Here in switzerland they dont even use .01 cent peices(pennies) but it doesnt come up often that you would even think of using it.

I think John’s post has summed up ‘paper’ currency pretty concisely. The paper used for banknotes isn’t actually paper, but is more like cloth, and therefore is highly resistant to folding, scrunching or other hazards inherent in daily life. I’ve been known to leave folded notes in my jeans, along with reciepts, when my clothes are washed and the hot cycle along with the agitation of the machine does rapidly puree normal paper like reciepts, but if you let the sodden mess dry you can unfold the money unscathed. I usually then stick it between the leaves of a heavy book to flatten it, but you can also iron paper notes safely.

You say that, but £10 in coins is a pretty heavy weight too, thats why there’s a £10 note… Usually I will keep approx £3-6 in loose change, if I accumulate more than that I’ll start paying in coins, significantly less than that and I’ll use notes until I’ve got about that level of loose change again.

Coin/Note systems make more sense to me personally, as well as significantly increasing the weight of my wallet. I wouldn’t like to see a pickpocket attempt to run off with it, since i’d notice the loss in weight instantly.

Loose.

We’re supposed to know why. It reminds me of a recent challenge to our country’s Pledge of Allegiance, where a guy (who lives pretty close to me) is campaigning to remove the words “under God” from the thing. They were only added in 1954 (during the cold war), but now people are adamant about keeping them. When news of one of his legal successes hit the airwaves, I remember an immediate response in Washington, with a bunch of legislators out on the steps of the Capitol building saying the pledge. As if they were afraid people would think they were atheists or something.

So basically, the problem is our constitution says we’re supposed to separate church and state, but our predominantly Christian-based society likes keeping these mentions of God in there, claiming it’s generic enough that it shouldn’t be harmful. But people still confuse not mentioning God (or religion) with having a lack of any.

I had never heard about Australia’s polymer money until now. Sounds very cool. But of course paper money has been in use for a very long time, and we’ve got it pretty well figured out. Actually, beyond the “paper,” the production process of U.S. money is pretty fascinating. They do all sorts of things to make it extremely hard to duplicate.

As for $1 coins, I believe we are slowly on our way to adopting them, but it seems like it won’t happen soon. First there was the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin, in 1978-79 or so. This coin was almost exactly the same size as our quarter, and the same color. Duh. Nobody seemed to like it. But now we have the “goldie,” a gold-colored dollar coin that looks and feels different. I like them. But you still only see them mostly in U.S. Post Office vending machines. You get them back as change. I put mine in a piggy bank. I don’t know what I’m saving up for, but I’m well on my way!

I love the Australian coins I have from the early 80s. They all have animals on the “tails” side. Looking forward to handling the money in Switzerland next summer!

I spent some time in Europe this summer and grew fond of the implementation of the Euro. I think the smallest note was 5 or 10 EUR and there were coins for 1, 2 and 5 EUR. The 2 EUR coin seemed odd at first but it sure did a good job of reducing the weight / value ratio.

As John notes, the only place we see our $1 coins are in some vending machines. This is where the Euro coins made life easier. Having to buy maps, snacks, drinks, rail tickets, day lockers, etc. the coins were indispensible.

Stuffing bills in a vending machine is a pain unless your bill was just printed yesterday. Plinking a single 2 EUR coin in a machine and getting your rail ticket immediately thereafter made transport a breeze (once I deciphered the local language to figure out what buttons to press :slight_smile: )

Edit: I thought the US was planning to move to plastic / polymer currency… what ever happened to that? Anyone else read this?

I really hate those things. They would be okay if they were more widely accepted, but as previously stated they are usually only used in vending machines.

What makes me mad is how some vending machines at my school will spit them out as change but will not accept them back so I can buy something else. (I guess this belongs in the “What really really really grinds my gears” thread)

Our lowest is the 5c coin. I have a lucky 1c coin from back in the early 90’s (?) when they stopped circulation of the 1’s and 2’s. I can’t remember how exactly they fased them out. I didn’t seem to notice.

That’s interesting.

That’s one of the main reasons Australia made the change to polymers. They have this fun little see-through bit on each note. I was amazed at some of the things they do to prevent counterfeiting over there in the states. They showed the process (or at least the parts they were willing to show) on this little segment I was watching on TV yesterday.

Yeah, they stilll do. Calling 'head’s and ‘tails’ makes a little more sense that way. :slight_smile:

Andrew

The constitution says nothing about seperating church and state. The first ammendment says QUOTE: “Congress shall make no LAW respecting any establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
.

Which means they wont force anyone to be a certain religion, etc.

Having God in politics is what our founding fathers intended though, when they signed the constitution. This is a direct quote:

“Do not let any one claim to be a true American if they ever attempt to remove religion from politics.” George Washington.

What’s written in law is not open to just any interpretation. There is a lot of caselaw that is written which actually defines the laws. This is usually dependent on the intentions of the lawmakers when it was written, past caselaw, and political influences.

Our founding fathers weren’t Christian. Most of them were Deists, including George Washington, believing in human reason rather than revelations (you know, that hocus pocus stuff). They believe in God, but believe that God left the universe to act away from God under the natural laws.

Without more context, we do not know what that quote means. I do not see the word God in there either. :wink: With George Washington’s religion being deism, that of being freethinking and using human reason, I doubt that you’re interpreting it correctly.

And the other 5% are counterfeit… :slight_smile:

Hey KIDS!! [Don’t try this–just a joke] Rip just a fifth off each of 5 $100 bills-- a different part from each one. Each $100 bill can still get redeemed for it’s full value. Then take the other 5 pieces, and claim it’s “more than 50% of the bill”. And get yourself 6 for 5.

standing behind the value of the money, huh? Then why does the value keep declining?

John: Thanks for all those facts, seriously. If WalMart had a 5 & dime food counter, I’d recommend putting those facts on the paper placemats!!

Billy

This astounds me:

Back in the 1970s, long before the revolution that would eventually topple him from power, the Shah of Iran was one of America’s best friends (he was a dictator who brutally repressed his people, but he was anti-communist, and that made him OK in our book). Wanting to help out a good friend, the United States government agreed to sell Iran the very same intaglio presses used to print American currency so that the Shah could print his own high quality money for his country. Soon enough, the Shah was the proud owner of some of the best money printing machines in the world, and beautiful Iranian Rials proceeded to flow off the presses.

All things must come to an end, and the Shah was forced to flee Iran in 1979 when the Ayatollah Khomeini’s rebellion brought theocratic rule to Iran. Everyone reading this undoubtedly knows the terrible events that followed: students took American embassy workers hostage for over a year as Iran declared America to be the “Great Satan,” while evidence of US complicity in the Shah’s oppression of his people became obvious, leading to a break in relations between the two countries that continues to worsen to this day.

During the early 90s, counterfeit $100 bills began to flood the Mideast, eventually spreading around the world. Known as “superbills” or “superdollars” by the US Treasury due to the astounding quality of the forgeries, these $100 bills became a tremendous headache not only for the US and its economy, but also for people all over the world that depend on the surety of American money. Several culprits have been suggested as responsible for the superbills, including North Korea and Syria, but many observers think the real culprit is the most obvious suspect: an Iranian government deeply hostile to the United States… and even worse, an Iranian government possessing the very same printing presses used to create American money.

If you’ve ever wondered just why American currency was redesigned in the 1990s, now you know. In the 1970s, the US rewarded an ally with a special machine; in the 1990s, the US had to change its money because that ally was no longer an ally, and that special machine was now a weapon used to attack the US’s money supply, where it really hurts. As an example of the law of unintended consequences, it’s powerful, and it illustrates one of the main results of that law: that those unintended consequences can really bite back when you least expect them.

Lees verder…
Gepubliceerd in The Register.

2005-01-22, door Inne ten Have inne@darwine.nl