I’m a guy but have enjoyed reading this thread. I too have been trying to find a comfortable solution. So far it has been a pair of gel bike shorts one size too small with a 09 KH freeride. Not too bad!
T
I might be the only female that feels this way but I wish I had a saddle much narrower and more curved. I’ve just rode the KH saddles. I cut them down in the center and take off the sides to the plastic.
This morning I wore my most expensive bike shorts on a steep off road ride. They were not good. Too much cusion causes too much smooshy pain. I also like thin padding with the KH FF seat. I still think the ideal shorts would have thick padding with a donut cutout for a no contact area where it counts.
Also a guy, here, but I greatly favor the thinner, wider bike-short padding, wide enough to wrap around the edge of the seat. The thick pads are too bunchy and the uni-seats already have plenty of padding. The triathalon-related stuff seems to fit the bill for me.
…from another guy
I’ve built a couple of air saddles and ridden them in both freestyle and distance. They were definately an improvement to the old rock hard saddles of yore but as my skills increased I eventually decided to look for alternatives.
In freestyle the air saddle had too much “give” so controling the uni from the hips was less effective, and in distance I was more comfortable until after a few miles and numbness and burning set in. Besides the male/female differences we both have nerves and blood vessels running along the perineum (sp) that get squooshed from riding and give us that numb feeling.
I recently bought a KH Freeride 2009 saddle and have really liked it so far, although haven’t had a chance to really try it out for distance. Keep in mind the 2009 saddle is a little softer and has a wider groove in the middle than previous models, buyer beware.
I’ve spoken to a few uni manufactures about creating a truly comfortable saddle but they usually brush me off. If these forums are any indication there is a real need out there that isn’t being completely filled. Ironicly, many manufacturers aren’t uni riders so they don’t truly understand the issue. Maybe the Addict folks can come up with something?
I greatly prefer the KH Freeride seat to air-saddles I made and others I’ve tried. Air saddles have also caused me numbness after relatively few miles.
So, I first made my own air saddle by using duct tape to secure a 20" tube to the top of my Nimbus Gel saddle. This seemed, more or less, to resolve the issue with the soreness from constant pressure. So I bought a KH Converted Air saddle (the rationale being that I didn’t want to be riding around on a wad of duct tape forever). After taking it for a ~2 hour trail ride the last two weekends, my main complaint is that the stupid tube keeps moving around and getting lumpy. I took it mostly apart today, put some duct tape in various places to (hopefully) hold it still, and put the seat cover back on. I’m still experimenting with the correct amount of air in the KH Air Saddle. We’ll see if I can get everything adjusted correctly.
My remaining problem is the pinching of delicate areas when riding, but I think I need to experiment more with the bottom-most layer of clothing for that (currently still wearing the spandex shorts under gel-padded bike shorts).
I swear, I don’t know how my husband can roll around on a Nimbus Gel saddle for hours on end. To me, that thing feels like a freaking brick with a seat cover over it.
my favorite saddle for comfort…OF ALL TIME…OF ALLLLL TIME! is the kh street. yes, the street. i like it even better than the fusion. and i hate air saddles.
but really your best bet is to just try em all. and always wear bike shorts. just do it! i always wear em underneath another pair of shorts.
Hey,
An update on the differences on the <2008 versus 2009 versus the 2010 KH saddles.
From 2002-2008 I worked on improving the design of the original KH saddle frame and bumpers (the frame and bumpers were licensed to many brands, which is why you see it everywhere). The front bumper and internal reinforcement plate were original to this design, but the frame wasn’t - basically I took an existing frame mold and had it improved as much as could be possible by changing the mold rather than investing in a brand new one. By '07 I felt that it had become as good as it really could get without going to a brand new design - hence the push towards the '09 generation saddle.
So in 2007 I contracted Scott Wallis to work with me on drawings for a new saddle frame and rear bumper - the main things I wanted to change. A major amount of design work over about a year and a half was put into the 2009 frame. We produced a solids model of the frame and did stress analysis to make sure that we properly understood the forces that needed to be accounted for to make a strong and stiff frame shape. The slight (10 mm) increase in width at the middle and back translates to more support for your butt bones, and it reduces the flare towards the front, which reduces thigh irritation. The rear bumper was also shaped carefully to avoid thigh irritation when you pull the seat out front for seat-in-front riding. The other big change was to get rid of the 10 mm bolts, so you no longer had to carry around a 10 mm wrench or bruise your fingers on the bolts. For what it’s worth, I also added the correct recycling symbol to the plastic so you can recycle it once it’s worn out.
Since 2009 the next step has been to make some small changes to the foam shape, to improve comfort and also (for the Street) to improve grippability on the side.
Compared to 2009, the 2010 Fusion Freeride has thinner foam at the very front to flatten out the curve a little more. Along the sides, foam was trimmed to follow the width of the frame. I wanted the foam to be supported by the frame without excess on the sides, to keep support and minimize thigh friction. It still has double density foam & the deep cutaway (much deeper than the <08 saddle). The cover on the Freeride has stretch nylon on the top to allow the cover to stretch down into the very deep cutaway.
The Fusion Street has thinner foam at both the front and back compared to the '09. It is single density so is firmer than the Freeride. The foam in the middle is kept somewhat thicker than other very thin saddles, so it’s still good for grabbing on the side (e.g. for trials, street etc.) but it doesn’t sacrifice comfort for that. A cutaway has been added down the entire length, which adds a lot of comfort compared to 2009 and also makes it easier to grab on the side (because you can wrap your thumb into the groove). Foam width was also trimmed in 2010 to better follow the frame width. I didn’t put a stretch cover on this one, to give riders an alternative to the Freeride cover and because the cutaway depth is not as big on this saddle. In addition to riding trials with it, personally I use this one on my 36’er with a touring handle, for road riding. The reason is that I find that the touring handle changes the force direction to be angled much further back (like a bike) so I don’t find I need the thick padding. If I didn’t have a touring handle or was riding on dirt roads or trails, I’d switch back to the Freeride saddle.
All in all it is an amazing amount of work and many 10’s of thousands of dollars to make a good saddle, which is the main reason it has taken so long to get a good off-the-shelf saddle.
In future it will perhaps be possible (ie the market may be big enough) to make multiple versions for males & females and different personal preferences. Until that time I’ll try to make something that’s good for the average body type, with a removable cover that allows modification for personal preference.
Cheers,
Kris
Perfect timing for this thread to be revived…
My old Freeride saddle was getting pretty tatty, torn and scuffed - plus I really wanted to fit a stiffening - plate so I’ve upgraded to the latest and greatest.
My observations after approximately 60 miles of mainly XC on my KH29 are:
Out of the bag…“Oh, that doesn’t look much different”.
Feel the top material…“yuk, that feels all spongy and less durable”.
Look at the foam shape…“that can’t be enough difference to make a difference”.
Bolt it on…“damm, the stiffener plate wont fit a rail + brake post properly”
After making a couple of 5mm high large diameter spacers and riding it round the block…“blimey, that feels different I’m going to have to experiment with moving it about a bit”.
After lots of adjusting and a couple of long rides…“can’t really see why this should be better but it certainly is”.
So overall a great success and certainly what I’d call a worthwhile upgrade for me, not much wrong with the old style however this is definitely better.
My only constructive feedback is I think the stiffener plate should come with spacers for those who may struggle to sort out their own.
So well done for taking the time and effort to keep on improving on good designs.
Thanks for the feedback.
So you are using a rails adaptor with it; that’s interesting. Although I still offer the rails adaptor I have to admit I never designed either the saddle or stiffner plate with this component in mind, because most riders have switched to the rail-less adjustable KH post and handle-mount brake bracket.
Kris
Interesting thread. I went back through all the old posts.
I quite like my KH saddles. I like the back part of the seat more or less flat, and the front raised slightly. To fit me perfectly, I think that I would prefer the back part of the saddle to be wider, and the middle part to be just slightly wider. Like others, my problem with distance is with numbness/lack of circulation and only slightly with chaffing. I find that standing up off the seat every few minutes, and grabbing the front of the seat and putting some weight there helps.
I wear two pairs of expensive women’s cycling shorts. (If one pair is good, two has got to be twice as good… right?) That knot of denim. where four seams collide, makes jeans impossible-wear for unicycling
Dear Kris,
You’re absolutely going to clean up, make Wall Street fatcats look like paupers, and be the first multi-uni-billionaire if you design and market the perfect unicycle saddle for women. Honestly. Really… Yes I guarantee it. You’re in this for the money, Kris… Right? 
So, I think I’ve finally solved my saddle dilemma for now. After taking the converted KH air saddle apart and taping the tubes where I wanted them to stay and adjusting the air pressure a few times, I was finally able to ride for a couple of hours today without pain.
Kris, if you ever decide to make a women’s unicycle saddle, I would be more than happy to help test. The painful saddle problem was frustrating enough for me to not want to ride for a long time – I imagine other women have had the same experience. I think it is beneficial that you have made a good quality saddle with removable cover so that we can take the cover off and customize to our needs.
I am with the other poster who would suggest the back be a little wider. I could actually stand for the front to be a little wider as well. Overall, this one seems to fit me loads better than the Nimbus Gel saddle did.
One of the original concepts was actually 10 mm wider than current. But the as-built saddle is about as wide as I can make it without interfering with pulling the saddle out for trials/street/flatland. I’m not sure what uni you ride, but if you’re riding for transportation I’d really recommend a touring handle. It makes an amazing difference for saddle comfort.
Kris
Kris,
I cannot remember the last time I pulled a saddle out while riding a 36" unicycle. Is the freerider saddle also designed to be narrow enough to allow this move?
It’s not that you’d ever pull the saddle out front for 36’er riding. It’s that the design costs and tooling for injection molding of the saddle frame and bumpers are really expensive - 10’s of thousands of dollars all told. This cost, compared to the market size, precludes making specific injection molded frames for specialized applications.
As such, a good solution is to think of the saddle as separate parts including the frame, reinforcement plate, rear bumper, and front handle. The frame remains the same as the heart of the saddle, designed with a shape that works well, on average, for most riders and riding styles. The design of the saddle foam and cover are then adjusted for specific purposes.
On the new frame, I felt that I could get away with increasing the width of frame by 10 mm in the middle and back, for distance riding and muni (compared to the '08 and earlier KH saddle) without causing complaints for trials/street/flatland. This increase, although small, seems to noticeably improve comfort - personally I can ride all day on the new frame without any soreness and I couldn’t do that on the old saddle.
K.
I ride a muni, actually. I don’t think a handlebar would help.
When I had to manage a project at my company earlier this year that involved creating a custom injection-molded housing, I was shocked by the cost required for tooling. I can definitely see how the cost would be huge issue, especially given the already niche market you are selling to.
Are you saying that the 2010 saddle is slightly wider than the 2009?
KH saddles switched to the new frame in April’09 (the “2009” and later versions). The '09 and '10 saddle frames are identical. The '10 frame uses a different steel alloy in the saddle frame reinforcement plate that in theory is very slightly stiffer, but in practice the two feel the same.
Kris
Are you speaking literally here? Because the last time I rode all day, at El Tour de Tucson, I was far from comfortable in the 10th and 11th hours. Max, who had narrowed and flattened his seat considerably including alterations of the frame, did not have such discomfort.
Wider in the back sounds good. I’m looking for narrower in the middle and front!
Cheers,
Z
For example, at the end of the summer I did 4 days in a row of riding 10-12 hours, and was completely fine. It was all singletrack muni with a large amount of climbing and descending (41,000’ vert in 4 days) which I find a lot more comfortable than road riding due to all the standing up and sitting down that you do, but nonetheless I was pretty happy with that. I felt a lot more comfortable than some of the bike riders I was with.
Now that they are available, definitely I would not do a long road ride without a touring handle. Of course this isn’t a good example for long rides, but I ride about 25 km every day with a 2010 Street saddle and T-bar, without bikeshorts, and find it a good combo for this distance.
Kris