Crank puller with kh20

I just rotated my cranks for the first time after heavy riding for 4 months. My lbs told me id need a cank puller to get the cranks off, but when I unscrewed the allen nut I found I could easily pull the cranks off and on the hub. Is that expected? Also my uni never creaked until I rotated the cranks, now it creaks a bit. Sounds like the spokes, but could it be the cranks? I rotated the cranks 90 degrees.

I’ll add that I made sure the cranks, pedals and bearing housings are tight and I hear the creakingg mostly whe hopping

I would worry your cranks are moving on the splines.
This might suggest you have damaged one or the other when riding with loose cranks

Im no expert but I’d try removing the cranks again
Check for any rounding or deformation

Your however not going to lose much by trying re placing

Maybe rotate again
Use grease or copper antisieze ( or even Vaseline) on the splines
Seat the cranks well with rubber mallet

And try again

I did reseat the cranks, still creaks, but not sure if from spokes or cranks.

Could it be when I rotate the wheel the pressure changes and the spokes need to adjust, or I need to adjust spokes?

As I said, I did not need a crank puller to get the cranks off, is that expected? Should I use one to put them back on?

Also, I found this:

"Creaking cranks
This is a symptom of loose cranks, the creak comes on the downward push on the loose crank’s side. Tighten the crank and nut with a crank puller. If the nut is not moving, tap the crank in (gently, don’t damage it !), then try again.
Creaking cranks can also be caused by grease on the spline (the tapered bit), remove the grease. "


It suggests I shouldn’t grease the splines…

Are you using spacers between the bearing and the crank? If so, you could reduce the thickness of the spacer by sanding or grinding it down which should cause the crank to snug up.

Should I lube the spindles? I’m pretty sure it’s the right crank as when I hop with the left foot forward I don’t hear anything

grease splines or not

I have read conflicting advise on this
and was wondering what others here do

Some suggest as a press fit the crank to spline interface should be dry. with some suggesting using degreaser before fitting the cranks

others suggest using grease.

with the need to change crank lengths and rotate cranks I have always greased the spines to stop it siezing, but then that does bring the risk of it working loose and creaking.

to the OP, certainly could be other source of creaking , such as spokes etc, but with the onset around reseating of the cranks im suspicious that is it

what spacers and what cranks are you using?
it may be the crank is ‘creeping’ up the spline and you need a smaller spacer

They are kh moments 137s. As far as I see I just see washers between the crank bolt and the crank.

Yes there is a black spacer between the crank and the bearing. It seems to fill in the space between the spindles and the crank.nthe crank is seated as far as it will go.

I would try sanding down the spacers
or using a spacer of a smaller size

then re setting the cranks

Spoke to josh at UDC. He said the KH hubs have had this problem. Supposedly the newer batches have fixed this. He said to wait until it really annoys me and UDC would send me a new nimbus hub even though the hub is not under warranty for this issue.

So you could (1) fix the crank play now by reducing the spacer thickness or (2) wait until the crank loosens further then rebuild the wheel and possibly have to replace the crank because it deformed. But hey you get a new hub!

Josh indicated that there would be no damage to the cranks. He seemed to indicate that nothing can be done. I’ll ask him if sanding this spacer will fix it.

Ah, I see now. There are two issues; the creaking, which Josh is attributing to the KH hub flanges and is a problem that has been discussed on the forum, is probably an annoyance.

The fact that your cranks are loose enough to come off without a crank puller suggests they are not able to interface fully due to the spacers being too large. This is probably not the source of the creaking but could lead to problems with the crank down the road.

the ISIS uses a 1 degree angle on the mating faces as unlike a square taper it is designed for the crank to be torqued up against a stop (in the UNI case against a spacer that pushes against the inner bearing race).

This slight angle means that any slight tolerance variation means cranks can go on more or less onto a hub axle, for example I have some 137 moments that on my mad4one cromo hub are very tight and don’t go on far at all, where my 137 spirits slide on to the standard spacer, on my orcale hub the same spirits don’t go on far and need a bigger spacer, where my quax lightweight cranks need a tiny spacer on the same hub.

SO basically get spacers that leave 2mm or so when you push the cranks on by hand so have enough space to tighten up on the axle. what that size is is a bit of trial and error and at £1 for a set of spacers just buy all the sizes so you can play about and find the correct one.

Is the creak and the offer of a different hub from UDC the normal two part KH hub issue where the press fit aluminum flanges are creaking on the axle not the cranks?

Wow, that’s a lot and I am afraid I am a bit lost. I took the spacers out and they seem to be the 6mm ones, and I see UDC offers 4mm ones.

When I take the spacers out and try to put the crank back on, the crank doesn’t go on any farther than it did with the spacers. Does that mean I need a crank puller to get them on farther?

So, do you think the creaking has nothing to do with how far the cranks are on and it’s the issue that Josh mentioned, which I am afraid I don’t quite understand.

I see, this thread:

Sounds like maybe it’s the defective hub issue. Apparently Kris Holm is not covering these hub under warranty, which is why UDC is replacing them with Nimbus hubs. That’s kind of lousy. I mean I just bought this expensive thing 4 months ago and haven’t done any crazy drops or anything.

And even with getting the new hub the new wheel build isn’t covered, so I’d have to learn to do it myself or pay the LBS to do it.

I am still a bit mystified as to why the cranks came off so easily, and why without spacers they don’t go on any further…and why it started creaking only after I rotated the cranks…

You don’t need a crank puller to set your cranks tight, you need a hammer
More specifically you need a rubber or plastic hammer to avoid damaging your cranks

If your spacers a a touch too big you will be snug against the spacer before the Isis interface is tight

However your issue may be creaking from the hub itself. The press fit of the flanges. For this the fix is the new hub.

I would still have a play with a smaller or sanded spacer as you have little to lose

Yep I am going to order smaller spacers and give that a try. If that doesn’t work, I will see about getting an Oracle hub and maybe try my hand at rebuilding the wheel myself.

What tools will I need for this job other than spoke keys. What potential pitfalls can I expect…?

Have a read of this