Out on a ride on a dirt road today and doing some thinking about my listing this way and that. Some times it is to the right, sometimes left, sometimes towards the crown, other times away from the crown. Seemed to have no ryme nor reason but was very real and annoying!!
After some thought, I figured out exactly what it was for me!
The placement of my feet on the pedals, how far away they are from the hub, not front and back. For example, if my left foot was towards the hub and right away, I would list to the right, even up the crown. If they were opposite, I would go the other way. Centered from side to side, the twist/lean was minimal. I think this is due to the increase in lateral torque exherted on the wheel with increasing distance from the hub. T=fx, right? so in a few centimeters can make a large difference here.
Please give it a try and see if it happens for you, too!!
Not sure if I understand the problem described above, but when I have trouble it’s usually related to road crown. My feet are pretty well behaved as to where they are on the pedals. But a road with lots of crown can be murder, especially when it’s narrow and you have to ride on the edge with cars going by. This was my big problem on my partial ride around Lake Tahoe last summer. Downhill curves to the right were the worst. Curves to the left were better than going straight!
Podzol, I’ll have to try that. But if you are right, then not only have you solved your problem of previously unexplained listing, but you have provided everyone with a quite easy way to solve the problem of road crown. For with a little relocation of feet on pedals, one can compensate any adverse turning tendency. Too good to be true, really.
I have noticed too that having the body twisted a way or another came from my ill placed free-mount. But I think the combination is more complex than just positionning feet sideways: it is also a difference between positions of the feet (more towards the heel or not) plus the position on the saddle (I prefer being seated at the top of the saddle -I mean to the rear-).
sometimes I can’t explain (it is not due to the crown of the road) I just start twisting my body more and more … I try to counteract by relaxing and letting my arms go down along my body.
I had a similar problem when I first moved from a 20" to 26" wheel. The frame itself was an old 20" Pashley that had been cut and rewelded, and the hub rebuilt in to a larger rim. I assumed that something wasn’t quite even, or central, but in the end it came down to the tyre. It was a pretty chunky tyre (can’t remember the make or model though), with a tread pattern like this;
The reason seemed to be that on tarmac it wouldn’t balance just on the centre knobbles (B), but would either lean on to A & B or B & C. Changing to a slick tyre cured the problem overnight.
I’m glad you posted this. I’ve had my own issues with lean/twist, (and my own half-baked theories to explain it). Next time I get out on the roads I’ll keep your idea in mind. Thanks!
I posting about this same topic about 3 moths ago after I bought a KH 29. I was riding good but sometimes I would have to twist my whole upper body to keep going strait. Most replies said that the saddle was twisted. ths was not the case and I have tested twisting the saddle and riding with no adverse effect. I kind of figgured out after a while that it was badly positioned feet on the pedals sometimes this is hard to fix because I have wicked pegs that dig into the bottom of my soles. However I have noticed that holding on the seat handle helps you ride more smoothly.
Actually, if your foot position on the pedals is making such a difference in your riding, it suggests you may be putting too much weight on your feet. In any case, a combination of foot position, upper body lean and twisting of the shoulders to one side or the other can compensate for an uneven road surface.
On my Tahoe ride I know I was using lean and twist to try to ride in a straight, even line. But on those steep crowns and hills, even this amount of adjustment was enough to make my pedal strokes longer on one side than the other. Eventually my right knee started to get really sore, as the majority of the riding had to involve leaning left. This created a longer reach to the right pedal so I eventually had to give up the ride a few miles short of Kings Beach, my goal.
I know this road camber stuff can be learned, because Nathan and Beau were miles and miles ahead of me (they circled the whole lake; 72 miles), and there were several other unicyclists there that day.
Ok, I just got back from a 20-miler and I was experimenting with adjusting for road crown,body-twist/body-lean by using Podzol’s pedal position adjustment theory (PPPAT). It seemed to work to a point, but I’m still adjusting to the 125s so I’m not comfortable enough to adjust and maintain the foot positions that well.
Anyway, Blake, I think there’s some affect, as you say. If I wasn’t such a flailer, I could make a better judgement on the truthiness of PPPAT.
[OT] The upside of the 125s: 20.34 miles in 1:51:04, avg speed 10.99mph - WOOHOO![/OT]
