club insurance

General
1

My son’s elementary school unicycle team lost their school sponsor and the principal said that the school can’t have the unicycle team any more without a full time teacher who is knowledgable of unicycling( which there isn’t any). One option we parents are considering is to disassociate from the school and make it into a local club. However we need insurance.

I’m looking for information. Is there a governing body of unicycling that offers insurance? Or does anybody know of potential insurance companies that cover unicycling clubs?

Please help so our kids can continue this fun activity

2

Hi Hawcreeker,

My wife speacializes in insurance, but were Canadian, if you are in Canada she might have a few suggestions.

If you are in the U.S look up a company called Unum and they might be able to assist you. just ask for thier " Speacial Risk" Dept

hope we can help!!!

3

If you are in the U.S, you can join the League of American Wheelmen as a club and your events will be covered. Also, check into the USCF ( United States Cycling Federation)

4

Hi Hawcreeker,

I’m interested in learning, too, about the school’s club. I what community are you?
Tommy

5

Why do you need insurance? Can’t you just tell everyone that you’ll meet at a certain time each week and ride around and teach people stuff and not bother with the rest of it? That’s what we do, and it’s working out great.

Andrew

6

I agree with andrew. That’s what we do too.

7

When a loosly affiliated group gets together to ride there is little need for insurance.

But if a group grows and gets more organized, rents public or private facilities, does parades and paid shows, then insurance is often required.

Its a pain but sometimes necessary.

8

UniBrier is right. This was an elementary school team, that appeared in 2 city parades and half time shows at local high school basketball games. It appears that the school does not want the responsibility any longer. In order for us to continue using the gym as a practice facility or even finding another one requires liability insurance.

9

Our club meets weekly in the gyms of the public school district. The district allows non-profit organizations to use their facilities for no charge but we have to have a liability insurance policy that names the district as second insured.

A local insurance rep found us a very reasonable $1M policy through:

Cincinnati Insurance Companies
P.O. Box 145496
Cincinnati, OH 45250
(513) 870-2000

Or if you want to ask the local rep questions:

Jim Beardin
Query Insurance Agency
330 May Mart Dr.
Rochelle, IL 61068
(815) 562-4152

Hope it helps,
Bruce

10

Hi Bruce,

Are there any restrictions or requirements that the insurance company puts on the club? For example, everyone must wear helmets (I know they should anyways :slight_smile: ), no muni done as a “club”, special waviers, etc?

matt

11

I don’t think there are restrictions. It’s a standard liability policy. It’s possibly based on the number of attendees though. I’ll have to check.

Bruce

12

Re: club insurance

gerblefranklin wrote:
> I agree with andrew. That’s what we do too.

If you’re not a club but just a group of mates going out riding, that’s
one thing but…

People in the UK are not known for being litigious (compared with the
US) but one of our unicycle clubs is currently being sued following an
accident.

The organisers have been told that getting members to sign disclaimers
is unfair. Oh and if someone has an accident as a result of wearing
unsuitable clothing (even though you’ve pointed this out to them) and
not wearing protective gear (even though you’ve made it available to
them) it’s your fault. Hmm.

Luckily the club in question has insurance - and if there’s any justice
in the world would win the case anyways.

BUT if they’d lost without insurance, the money would have come from
club funds, when that ran out it would’ve come from the organisers, when
that ran out all members of the club would be liable.

Who needs insurance?

I like my house. I’d like to keep it.

Regards,
Mark.

–

Fujitsu Telecom Europe Ltd,| o
Solihull Parkway, | In the land of the pedestrian, /|
Birmingham Business Park, | the one-wheeled man is king. <<
Birmingham, ENGLAND. | O

13

Re: Re: club insurance

I should also mention that, as club directors, Mary and I purchased a personal umbrella liability insurance policy just in case we find ourselves faced with the situation that Mark writes about.

Bruce

14

Re: Re: club insurance

I have never gotten this, but of course I live in the litigious USA. I am the organizer. You want to be a part of what I’m organizing, you will sign the disclaimer. That is your choice. This is especially true when it involves taking people on group rides along rocks and cliffs.

Which it should not be, but that’s why we have lawyers… I mean insurance. :slight_smile:

15

We received a fair amount of static about the three UNICON 11 disclaimers (event, parade and MUni) that all participants were required to sign. The multiple disclaimers were the result of differing requirements of the venues and the lateness of receiving these requirements in relation ot publishing the registration forms.

Most of the static came from the European riders. Some of the Germans were fairly vocal about how they would never be asked to sign such a thing in Germany.

As John foss said, the choice is very simple: You sign the disclaimer or you do not participate.

Disclaimers are a fact of life when dealing with the USA, Inc.'s general liability carrier. They will not extend coverage to one of our events without an approved disclaimer.

Tom Daniels
President, Unicycling Society of America, Incorporated

16

Re: club insurance

tadaniels wrote:
> As John foss said, the choice is very simple: You sign the disclaimer or
> you do not participate.

The UK club being sued had a disclaimer that every member signed - but
they’ve been told that it’s a waste of time. Apparently it’s deemed
“unfair” by the Office of Fair Trading.

It’s interesting that disclaimers in the US carry more weight than they
do in the UK. Maybe that’s why Europeans don’t often get asked to sign them.

Regards,
Mark.

–

Fujitsu Telecom Europe Ltd,| o
Solihull Parkway, | In the land of the pedestrian, /|
Birmingham Business Park, | the one-wheeled man is king. <<
Birmingham, ENGLAND. | O

17

Disclaimers (in most countries) are pretty worthless as ways of stopping people suing.

The reason being because of contract terms in people’s employment contracts.

This is because employers used to put things in people’s employment contracts saying that if you work for them and they hurt you due to negligence or do anything else silly that harms you, they were not liable.

If enforced this would mean that if you were at work and someone else drove a lorry over you or whatever, you wouldn’t have any right to sue the company and you’d be left disabled and out of work with no money, when it was obviously the fault of the company (via one of their employees) that you were in that state.

Because people usually don’t have a choice about signing those contracts, this forced people into this obviously unfair situation. Hence contracts where you say you won’t hold people liable for something were made unenforceable in most cases.

Maybe the existence of a disclaimer is useful because it shows proof at least that people have accepted it’s a dangerous activity, even if they’re not discharging liability.

The fact people in the USA still need liability insurance pretty much proves that the disclaimers don’t remove any liability.

The good news about the UK is that judges rather than juries decide liability cases, which makes it less likely to reward people who obviously did something stupid.

Joe

18

I think that’s accurate. The liability has to do not with what someone signs, but with whether or not there was negligence, or otherwise (supposedly) some other mistake, omission, or irresponsibility that was not covered by the disclaimer.

For example, you sign the MUni Weekend waiver. Then, I lead you down a trail that’s patently unsafe, that erodes away as you ride and has a huge dropoff. This is negligence on my part. I have no business taking my “guests” on that trail.

That said, all the trails we will ride at MUni Weekend are legal bicycle trails. They may be dangerous, but people ride on them all the time. All riders are expected to use caution, and walk the sections they don’t feel confident about.

What the disclaimer does is protect the organizer in the event of a claim, by proving the claimant was aware of the situation he/she was getting into, and acknowledged this by signing the form.

Back to the original topic of this thread:

Yes, it’s hard to go from being a school-sponsored club to independent. To use the school facilities, without a sponsoring person, requires insurance. So if a person can’t be found, the choices are insurance, or going someplace else. The school would be the preferred environment, especially for what started as a school club.

The Unicycling Society of America is sorting out a new insurance carrier. Eventually it is hoped we may be able to help unicycle clubs get insurance as well, but this will take further research and may not be available for a year or more. Until then, I hope the leads provided by Bruce Edwards will help you.

19

Re: Re: club insurance

Mark, Can you tell us exactly what happened? I’m curious. Was this a club which you are directly involved in?

David Stone and I started the Unatics a few years ago which is now something like 160 strong and has 20-30 attendees per meet. Although I hardly ever have the time to attend, my name is still somewhat loosely affiliated with the club as one of the founders, and David is going strong as a leader of the club. David and I have our email address listed as club contacts.

We worry from time to time about the insurance and waiver questions. One lawyer in the club said that as long as we don’t collect dues and don’t have any formal organization, administration, officers and such, that we are “just a bunch of folks gathering from time to time with a common interest.”

That said, I’m trying not to be naive about this - Realistically, it’s probably just a matter of time before something happens.

Personally I’m keen on the idea of an informal gathering of like minded people. I prefer to stay away from the term “club,” although everyone refers to the group as the Unatics and as the “club.” There are also plenty in the “club” who would like to establish an indoor space, collect dues and do more things.

I’ve heard it mentioned that when an indoor space is established then insurance is called for. It seems it would certainly be required by the owner of the space.

However I still worry about our status as an “outdoor club.” We are looking pretty organized and established. Maybe it’s time to revisit this topic for the Unatics. Thoughts?

20

Re: club insurance

merrill wrote:
> Mark, Can you tell us exactly what happened? I’m curious. Was this a
> club which you are directly involved in?

It’s not a club that I’m involved in. I won’t go into too many details
because 1) as far as I know the matter is still to be resolved and 2)
all I know is from chatting to people who are involved.

As I understand it, one of the members went to the unicycle club in
baggy jeans. She was warned that they could be dangerous as they could
get caught. She continued to unicycle, they got caught and her foot got
trapped between the pedal and the frame. As she dismounted, the unicycle
fell forwards and, since her foot was trapped, the movement of the frame
broke her leg. No disputing it’s a nasty injury.

> I’ve heard it mentioned that when an indoor space is established then
> insurance is called for. It seems it would certainly be required by the
> owner of the space.

The juggling club that I run has been going for 10 years or so. We’ve
discussed insurance in the past but never with a sense of urgency. There
have been injuries (none to do with unicycling - mostly club-passers
getting hit by incoming clubs) but people understand that what they’re
doing carries a risk and wouldn’t dream of suing us.

Then this incident comes along (as do ambulance-chasers like the
Accident Group and Claims Direct) and it occurs to us that it’s time to
get something sorted. We now have insurance - it’s costing a lot of
money that could be better spent on equipment but there you go.

Am I bitter? Too right I am.

Regards,
Mark.

–

Fujitsu Telecom Europe Ltd,| o
Solihull Parkway, | In the land of the pedestrian, /|
Birmingham Business Park, | the one-wheeled man is king. <<
Birmingham, ENGLAND. | O