Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
Ah, so clowns scare little kids and men.
Clowns frighten little kids but engender fear in men.
quote:
Clowns throughout history have inverted the power relationship… The fool in Shakespeare is the one who can get away with speaking the wise truth to the king. Clowns are counter cultural–the fool is in a society but not of it, not locked into seeing things conventionally, but more as an outsider.
Perhaps getting a bit far afield here, but…
Clowns may speak the truth to the king, but what really does the king care? He may listen or not, behead or not.
Those who really have to fear are the ministers, advisers, etc whose position depends on the king’s favor. They are the ones quaking in their boots whenever the fool speaks. No?
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
The cloak of the fool allows that no one should take you so seriously to behead you–you’re just a fool. To behead would imply you took the fool too seriously. The only fool to be beheaded in the last century was Lenny Bruce. People took him too seriously, and men feared him I guess.
Murde, You seem to be saying that clowns really are dangerous, really are to be feared, because at any time they may “balance the scales” at our expense. Your point is well taken. Many times others are the butt of the clown’s humor.
But there is that other aspect to clownophobia, the aspect most often seen among male unicyclists, and that is the fear that someone might think “I” am a clown.
In this regard, are you also suggesting that clownophobia stems from a fear of being laughed at? And that clownophobic male unicyclists cannot tolerate being laughed at?
PS If we have any female clownophobics (or clownophilics–that is, clown-loving female unicyclists) here, please let us know where you stand.
you see, clowns are the embodiement of absurdity. So the clownophobia you’re talking about (unicyclist afraid of being taken as a clown) is actually the fear of escaping normality and being set apart from society…
Clowns are humans. Yet they don’t fit in with other humans…they are the outcasts…
I don’t know if that makes much more sense either…I seem to have problems structuring my replies…that’s why I use these:"…"
so often…It’s just one thought after the other…
You know, Murde, after listening to you, I see that male unicyclists who are afraid of and dislike being seen as clowns, seem to be like children who see the clown as something real and debased, instead of as a skilled ACTOR.
It is all very strange to me. I never hear people say with disgust: “He mistook me for a skilled ACTOR!! I felt so bad!” but many male unicyclists say that about being called clown. Never: He shouted: Hey ACTOR!
I’m sure there are other reasons, and I’m interested in your input (as well as the knowledgable input of Ethyl and Studebaker Hock).
Maybe not that a clown is real, but what one is doing is seen as being silly, not manly. Like an actor, but one that works in dinner theater in some nowhere little town.
I used to be a member of Ihateclowns.com. According to them, clownophobia is not the official word, and a more scientifically correct term is coulrophobia. I have never really hated or feared clowns, I just don’t like being called one when I am riding my unicycle. After ihateclowns became a user pay email service, I stopped using it.
Referencing the links I provided in the Toronto thread, I believe that as Billy is not referring to a literal or clinical fear of clowns, his use of clownophobia rather than coulrophobia is appropriate.
i think one bit of clarification is in order
the male unicycling clownophobiac is more resentfull at being labelled a ‘clown’ by an uninformed civilian who intends it as an insult, but chooses not to use ‘idiot’, ‘fool’ or any part of the anatomy as his insult of choice, than he is truly fearfull of clowns
the fear inspired by the ricktus face and all the rest of it is something completely different again
as is the political fear of the influence the ‘clown’ has on the king
and the possible threat that may hold to one’s position or the position of one’s head
the ‘embodiment of absurdity’ origin of the true clown fear is very interesting indeed and i really wish i was able to expand on that
something to chew on while i’m in traffic this afternoon…
another category we seem to have on this forum (and i suspect myself of being a member) is that of clown-apologist
i dont hate clowns
i dont fear clowns
i respect them for what they do
i know i couldn’t do it
these are all comments i would expect from the ‘clown-apologists’ among us
i dont like seeing uni’ers bashing clowns because they hate being called ‘clown’
i think their reaction is as wrong as the original slinger of the ‘clown!’ insult
i recently had the most horrible dictionary experience
(where is this going dave?)
as u may know, there r two kinds of people in this world
those who have a ‘favourite dictionary’
and those who dont
and while the chevvy vs ford debate rages on over gallons of beer, many a merlot has dissapeared in the oxford vs webster discussions
me?, i’m a collins man and have proudly been for some time now
while digging around looking for the root to some strange word i found and didn’t understand in some weird book, i ended up in the ‘u’ section of my trusty old collins and while there, realised that i’ve never looked at the collins definition of ‘unicycle’ before
i wish i never did
something about one wheeled thing ‘esp as ridden by clown in circus’
or something to that effect
the exact memory is hazy
it was traumatic
can anyone suggest a good fall-back dictionary for a fallen ex-collins man?
The traditional clown act was satire over social classes in the feudal Italian society. The circus clown is derived from the dumb and clumsy servant character.
Unlike the fool in Shakespeares plays this type of clown is absolutely no thread to anyone.
Clowns are more like Trincolo in The Tempest than the fool in King Lear.
Borges, any relation to the great writer Jorge Luis? Great response. Gild, I prefer the OED when it comes to dictionaries, though I don’t have one readily available.
Rowan, you don’t like being called a clown. My response is: although I am flattered to be mistaken as a member of the wonderful clown profession, no, I am not one.
What has occured to Rowan and other male clownophobic unicyclists, is that, the name-caller is clownphobic, and the unicyclist joins the name-caller in clownophobia.
If you examine the first quote from the ihateclowns.com website (included below), you will see that the site is by a clownophobic and the site promotes clownophobia. Part of the problem is that (the guy has to be kidding) it grossly overgeneralizes, and in that way is just plain inaccurate (like all bias/bigotry).
The website says–quote:
My message is simple:
There are people in this world who dress up and act like clowns; I don’t like these people. I am not clownophobic (or to be politically /scientifically correct, coulrophobic). I do not fear clowns. Really. I don’t. They are just not nice people. They scare little kids, they cause neurosis in some adults, they have big floppy feet, they try to fit too many of their kind in a car, I could go on and on.
#1. The World Stiltwalkers Association objects to the use of the term coulrophobia and are lobbying dictionaries to delete it, since it was wrongly coined during the 1990s. The word coulrophobia is based on the Greek word koulon (‘limb’) and related derivatives suggestive of stilts and stilt-walking, i.e. the Greek kolobathristes means ‘one who goes on stilts’. “Clownophobia” stands. #2. A powerful organization, the Clowns of America, have revoked membership to clowns known to smoke or swear (or other conduct unbecoming a clown) in public. :o But NOW there are two radical terrorist clown cells: the Polka-Dot Panthers and the Clownish Defense League. Recently there was a violent stand-off with police in Berkeley, where the police were ran off by whip creme pies and slap sticks. :o
#3. These radical terrorist clown groups are monitoring sites where clownophobic and other hate speech :o gets support. I don’t know where Studebaker Hoch and Ethyl the tree stand on this issue, but I know one foolish poster who said: Bring it on! and ended up with a pie in his face
But NOW there are two radical terrorist clown cells: the Polka-Dot Panthers and the Clownish Defense League. Recently there was a violent stand-off with police in Berkeley, where the police were ran off by whip creme pies and slap sticks. :o