Re: Re: Phew!
In Mormon culture, we’ve got something called, “Mormon Standard Time.” It means that any activity will start at least 5 minutes late (and that’s a conserative estimate) while everyone with 4+ kids try to get their families there.
I’m tired, we just got done with another section of the new youth center, we’ve moved from the basement of the local firehall we’ve been renting for the last 12 years of Crossfires existance.
The renovation of what has come to be known as " the barn" has been fast, and not too well planned, by us anyways. But Gods been providing people, and things have been coming together. My end has mostly been carpet, cause thats what I do. For the first half, the game room, we used carpet squares that Jim ( the director ) got from his work, nice stuff, and pretty new. I got a guy I work with to help and some kids that were there volenteered to help, it turned out ok for being on a really rough floor that we patched but was still a bit bumpy.
The next half, the meeting room, was something else entirely. We found we didn’t have enough floor tiles, so we played around with using what we had, and my partner Neal said he’d work on getting more carpet for us. So Monday i’m on my way to help him at work, and one the phone he tells me I owe him big, when we get there I find out why. He tore out these nice, high quality peices of carpet and kept them for me, and there was two more rooms the next day, today. Also back at the shop they gave me a good bit of carpet today that had been torn out, probably had to be replaced for some reason or another. So I took those over to the barn and decided I definatly wanted to use the one peice with the 2 Neal gave me the other day, cause they were expensive and high quality. I was thinking i’d fit them together somehow, but after awhile I got nowhere. I called Neal and he said to come get him after he was done at work, which I did, and he had the other 2 peices, plus his years of experiance. So we went and to make a long story less long it looks pretty nice for being peiced together and glued down.
Ok, I say all this to say that I know my God cares about me, and also all the kids that’ll be hanging out at the center. It may not seem big, but watching all this unfold is just pretty cool, it’s been like that whole way through this as Gods been providing people to do what we need done, including extend the black top, tear a small chicken house down ( one girl will never forget that due to stepping on a nail, hehe ) , making openings and putting 2 new doors and steps, making 4 doors fire excapable, drywall, carpet : ), putting up 2 block half walls, running electricity, and a bunch of other things. And all this started because some guy ( Jim) decided to get serious about God and letting him use him and do something awesome in his life thats affected tons and tons of people in a good way, and given them the oppertunity to experiance Jesus’ love in a real way. So it’s all pretty encouraging to me, and I wanted to share, thanks.
Andrew
add another to the list, i am one too
very cool not a clown, hey I have another story, everyone sit down and relax.
Ok, I took off work this Friday and Thursday night I left for camping with a guy from work, his 2 kids, and another guy from works son. We went to stay in a camper that Shane was borrowing and it’s about 2 hours away and at a nice spot. So the next day we headed off to the local lake, to fish and whatever else they had that we wanted to do. I didn’t have my lisence so I helped the kids a bit, although soon an accident happened. Shanes youngest was walking around and fell in some mud, it’s a little swampy, and looked like he got covered in chochlate, hehe. So Shane took Seth back to get him cleaned up, and we hung out there. Later I asked if we could try the one trail they let bikes on, I had my Muni ( it’s a Sem cycle lx or something) I don’t really ride it Muni, but I figured now would be a good time. We found the trail and it was step, and stones, but I figured i’d try it. I’d either fall after a bit, or my legs would get tired and i’d get off, but I plugged away for awhile, good exersize. I didn’t go all the way up, but far enough as time would allow, and the trek down was fun, but I was pretty cautious at first. Anyway, now the real cool thing begins. We’re leaving to go back to the camp site, and right as we’re almost past the lake I look over and see this guy riding… you guessed it, a unicycle. I quick pull over to the left, but can’t park, so quick pull back out and find a spot off the road. Get the ok from Shane to go running after the guy, grab my Muni, and decide to run with it. On my way a guy says " like father like son?" guess he saw the guy, I told him I didn’t know him. I went around the lake one way asking people as I went, people see him around, and say he’s a nice guy and rides a lot, but don’t know where he’s at. After a bit I realize the lake is bigger than I want to ride around and go back the other way to the beach. I feel kinda funny with so many people around and ask one guy whos looking at me I think if he’s seen another guy on a uni. He says ask a life guard, so I did and she said I should ask at the snack bar for a girl named Shannon. She’s not there but I ask the guy if he’s seen a guy on a uni, which he doesn’t know too much about, but they helped as much as they could, I decided to head back, kinda wanting to maybe get the van and drive it back to look more, and at least let the other know where i’m at. I got there and it seemed like we’d just leave, but they said they left something behind so we got to go back. As we drove there he was again, and there I went again. I rode around this building one way, and the other say him on the other side, this time he was on a 5 footer. So i’m catching up to him and he don’t see me, as people pass i’m shushing them so they don’t give me away, and when i’m close enough I say loudly " what is that?" to not much response. He didn’t seem to surprised to see me, but we started talking as we rode. He does an hour a day, so I followed him on his rounds, saying hi to people as we rode. He’s 60 and he’s been riding for 5 years, for exercise. He said he’s always wanted to ride, and juggle, he does both now, and if he’d of known how hard riding was he wouldn’t of done it, hehe. He can ride backwards also, but he can’t idle yet, and I showed him how I can hop, which he hasn’t practiced that much, he said he’s pretty isolated from other unicyclists. Later when we caught up with the others he talked to Shane, and we found out he was a christian, so add him to the list. The whole thing was pretty cool how God worked it out, I surely didn’t expect to see another unicyclist, and it made my trip. I think it’s cool how God shows us in little ways like that that he cares about us even though everything about lifes not ok all the time. I got his email address so we can keep in touch, if we have any rides in the area i’ll let him know and he can be less isolated, even though around the lake he’s well known, which is pretty cool and if I could remember the name of the lake i’d post it, so you could see the lake unicyclist for yourself, i’m telling you he’s not a myth!!! : )
Thanks for reading, later.
ANdrew
Hi Raphael,
I’m coming into this kind of late. I’m hoping our friends weigh in. Atheism is a religion, because (unlike agnostics) they hold as an article of FAITH that there is no god. Some are more adamant about their FAITH than others, and I think that is what you are referring to. Adamant atheists. Fundamentalism has more to do with rigid adherence to the word. letter of the law, rules, vs. mysticism, which is more aligned with the spirit of the law.
I have reason to believe that Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam, is actually rejected by many fundamentalist Islamic groups. My personal take is that the mystical branches of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have more in common with each other than with the fundamentalist branches of their own religion.
Billy
Curiosity has once again compelled me to check out something I would have normally ignored. Damn you questioning nature!!!
Forgive me if I am bringing up ancient history as I have just recently jumped into this monstrosity of a thread.
A few Christians have asked why certain people (mainly maroast) are lashing out at Christians. Here is my take: I am frustrated by how Christian ideals are basis for many laws that affect my day to day life.
Laws that protect people from themselves:
Here in America we don’t need a reason to make something legal, we need a reason to make something illegal. I have taken this from The West Wing.
Marijuana should be legal. In 2002, Marijuana resulted in 735,000 arrests. Cigarettes caused 400,000 deaths. How many people has mari jane killed? 0. Gentlemen is this justice?
Helmet laws, seatbelt laws, suicide laws, the legal drinking age, etc.
Playing God:
Dr. Jack Kavorkian should not be imprisoned. Assisted suicide should not be a crime. As long as the participant is an adult of sound mind.
If I ever contract an incurable disease, and am living with excruciating pain 24/7, laying in a hospital bed in my own feces, unable to wash myself, and doctors tell me there is nothing they can do knowing pain will only increase before an inevitable death. I hope that I will have the strength to pull the trigger. I would rather die with a little dignity.
It has been said that assisted suicide is playing god. What about keeping people alive plugged into life support while they are brain-dead. Curing diseases that would have killed people 100 years ago. Is that playing god?
The morning after pill should be made available over the counter. Many people have spoken out against abortion. That is fine, where life begins, is debatable. The problem I see is when the same group speaks out against the morning after pill. WHAT? This group should be praising the Lord for the MAP as it would do away with abortion.
Live and let live
I have no problem with what you believe whatsoever. I do have a problem when groups don’t show me and others that same respect.
My best friend, I have known him since I was 3 years old. At the age of 15 he started going to a church youth group (following his girlfriend) ever since then, he has looked down his nose at me for being a non-believer. This attitude of Christian Supremacy is something I have come across all too often.
I have been stopped on my unicycle by a guy who said “Wow! now that is some extreme unicycling. You go to church boy?” “No I don’t” “Well then let me tell you about extreme Jesus.” After that I just tried to tune him out. I did catch some of what he said. I remember the guy telling me that Jesus blinded all the homosexuals and they still tried to rape people. can you believe that boy?
The sanctity of marriage
This institution has already been made a mockery. 50% divorce rate. My mom has been married five times. My mom has been divorced five times. My neighbor follows the Christian faith very closely since child hood. She told me that the main reason she got married was so she could have sex.
Could someone explain how gay marriage harms you?
There is more I want to say, but I have to leave for work. peace out.
“I’d sell my soul for a formula one racecar”
-Bart Simpson
Imagine you are living in a country founded by Tree Frog Worshipers (thanks Foss). The populace is 70% Tree Frog Worshiping. This country is a democratic state, so naturally a large percentage of those who have been elected to office are Treefrog Worshipers.
Few people know this, but unicycling is considered an immoral act by the Tree frog Worshipping faith, as it requires a divine balance only to be possessed by the almighty Tree frog. Even though the Tree frog worshipers know you are going to hell for riding a unicycle, they are uncomfortable with even knowing you are doing it in the privacy of your own home (let alone in public). So they try to pass anti-unicycling laws. Because most of the populace and government is comprised of tree frog worshipers, the law passes easily. Even those who think this is a bad law will vote in favor of it to gain voter approval due to the faith of the nation.
BAM! Unicycling is illegal. Even having one in your possession is illegal. This pisses you off because you weren’t hurting any one else. Though you have injured yourself. But you accept the risks.
You are also angry that people who believe in something as stupid as the divine power of the Tree frog, have the power to control your life, you don’t follow this faith so you don’t feel that you should have to comply with its rules.
Naturally when you come across a tree frog worshiper, you will try to tell them about fossils from ancient tree frogs proving that they have evolved from an animal that lived its entire life under water. They will reply with “the almighty tree frog has planted those bones to test the faithful”.
mike
“I’m not gay, although I wish I where just to piss off all the homophobes”
-Kurdt Kobaine
I cautiously came into this thread because ‘Christian’ is my last name. I ride a uni, but don’t mind me if I sneak quietly out the back door.
Hey before you leave i’d like to tell you and anyone else lurking around a pretty cool story of what God did today.
Ok, my friend Jim who runs the youth center I help out at was planning on driving up north to 2 towns to scout out the possibility of helping start another youth center in those areas. He didn’t know what was gonna happen, just that God had put it in his heart, and he had to be faithfull to walk it out. My friend Andrew and I went with, as we drove we prayed for Gods will to be done, and this is what happened. We got to the first town of Ashland, drove around a little, getting a feel for the town, any kids, and if there was anywhere for them to hang out. Jim turned around and said he was gonna stop to say hi to this lady with a man in a wheelchair, cause the lady waved at him, this could be our contact… So we park infront of them get out and introduce ourselves. Turns out there had been attempts at youth centers in town, but too much fighting and drug us kinda shut them down, thats what the lady ( Donna ) told us, she’s a nurse, and her patient in the wheel chair was Kevin. We got the number of her pastor, the’ve been trying to renovate a building, but haven’t had the funds I think, and Jims gonna go back and meet with him sometime and see what Gods got in mind, so looks like we may have been at the right place at the right time.
We decided to go to the other place, Carbonville, or something with carbon in the name, I forget, about 1 hr north. When we got there we drove around for a little again, then something truely awesome happened. Andrew spots a unicycle!!! we pull over and i’m like, " can I go after it?". So we walk down the street to the group of kids trying to ride it, it’s a pretty small one with a bicycle seat thats bent upwards. We say hi to the kids, and I act like i’m thinking the unis cool, and we watch them trying to ride it. After a bit i’m like " can I try" they’re nice kids and let me have a go at it. First thing I do is try to make the seat level, which it does move. Next I get on, trying to pretend i’m having a bit of a hard time, and holding onto the railing. After a bit I actually try and get a few revolutions, the pedals are pretty cheap and slippery plastic and it’s small, but it work for a few seconds, which is enough to amaze them. I’m kinda acting like, hey it’s cool I can actually ride, but soon I tell them i’ve been riding for a year. By now the girls that were there left, and it was 3 15 year old guys, who were willing to talk and joke around, and kept trying the unicycle, untill later when I tried to hop on it and bend the crank, eekk, but they didn’t care too much. Jim asked if they had any places to hang out, and they said nope, pretty boring place. Then after awhile something else out of the ordinary happened. The one kid twists his knee the wrong way and pops it out of joint! at first I thought he was kidding, but he was sitting there in pain, and you could see his knee bulging where it shouldn’t be. He stayed still while his friends put the uni away and his mom called for an ambulance. Even though he was in pain we still joked around a little, like about how the uni caused this somehow. Jim asked if he could pray for him, and he did then. While his mom was on the phone, the knee popped back into place, thank God, and she tried to cancel the ambulance, but they came anyways and checked him out. He walked on it, but I think it was still painfull. Soon they got going and we walked around the town a little bit, looking for a guy that Jim went to school with who lived in the area. We found a small carnival going on, and checked there to no avail and soon started our journey home. All in all it was pretty cool, we did other stuff like listened to cds and talked and just had a good time, also stopping for food and all that. It was just cool how God brought the day together, and it’ll also be cool to see what goes on with the first place we stoped and how it comes together, like the youth center back here has.
Did I also mention the fact of how Gods worked my wanting to ride unicycle into all this, if I hadn’t learned i’d of never had reason to talk to kids trying to ride one, Andrew probably wouldn’t of cared much about seeing him, if he didn’t have a friend who rode one. So I think it’s cool how God takes things we like to do, and uses them to bless us and others.
Andrew ( not my friend Andrew, me )
Mentally preparing myself for flaming…
I believe in God, but this kind of testimony really freaks me out. It’s so … bible-thumpy.
I believe in Gaaawwwwd,
and I believe that Gawd believes in Claude, THAT’S ME!
That’s me.
That’s me.
That’s me.
Raphael Lasar (Back from England, even if not Manchester)
Matawan, NJ
oops
Bible thumping, reactionist, and i’m proud to bear the name
Take our music ( unicycles ) take away our lives, Jesus still remains.
I wonder what will people think, when they hear that i’m a Jesus freak.
He went all out for us, say what you will, i’ll answer to my God.
I’m a freak, they say i’ve lost my mind. But I know, i’ve never seen so clearly.
When I speak, they say i’ve gone to far this time. It lets me know, I have not gone nearly.
The bible thumping comment got me thinking about a Supertones song, so I put some of the lyricks up. I think this Wenesday Jims going up to meet with the pastor dude. When they spoke on the phone the pastor wasn’t surprised about Jim being intrested in helping out, or something like that, so i’ll post what takes place.
Andrew
Interesting story KJ-52, but I can relate more to onetrack’s. Bye.
onetrack you ruuuuuule.
My father is the patriarch of the family. He is one of 8 siblings, all with their own children, scattered about the United States. A large percentage of these relatives are born-again Christian. My father always said, “I don’t need to be born again. I never lost Jesus to begin with!” So anyway, the 2 children of this firstborn male, my father, are my brother and myself. Both of us are gay. There is a family reunion next month, people are coming from all over the country. My brother and I are NOT INVITED.
That’s mighty Christian of ya, folks. They don’t even know me well enough and probably wouldn’t care that I’m a Christian, too.
While I’m sure that onetrack and I are of a similar political and perhaps religious bent, I think his example is a bit of a straw man argument.
There is no doubt that there are some things in the category of unicycling, e.g. personal activities, that are objectionable to some who would even go so far as to attempt to ban them. An example that comes to mind is that recently either North or South Carolina was considering a law to regulate piercing but which included a provision that would outright outlaw female genital piercing even by informed adult females. Or, of course, there is the whole temperance thing.
However, the unicycling example stretches the imagination in its comparison to such things as homosexuality and abortion. These are viscerally culturally and religiously associated subjects and as such evoke visceral reactions which we, that is those such as onetrack, digigal1, or myself, may or may not consider to be rational but nonetheless are for others matters of significant moral consideration.
So while I think in matters such as homosexuality and abortion it is fair to say that insofar as we are capable we will not permit the state or religious institutions to interfer with the rights of individuals to practice, it is not fair to compare them simply to activities such as unicycling.
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
When I married a non-Jew and went and had a shiksa daughter my mother’s side of the family, very orthodox Jews, stopped all contact with us. Not though my uncle Avrame who died in the WTCs. Fundamentalism is a bitch.
Sorry to hear of your exclusion, digigal1. Personally I think family reunions are the exact place to deal with such things; isn’t that what makes them so much fun? Better luck in the next life, though you’ll probably end up being straight in a gay world. 
Cheers,
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
i fairly recently woke up and found out that my brother and one sister are both gay
they live in cape town, i live in jhb, about 1000 miles apart
they both passed thru johannesburg recently and we all went out for a meal
notwithstanding my overriding appreciation for good-looking females, i’ve always had an appreciation for a good-looking male
it was a particularly fun experience going out with my brother and sister and perving over good looking guys with my brother and good looking ladies with my sister
viva la difference!
or something like that
just a lil’ something else and then i’ll leave this thread well alone
i’ve been doing CD reviews for the newspaper my girlfriend works for
(i was getting pissed off at the fact that i never got to read CD reviews that i really liked, so i started writing my own. she saw one, liked it, showed it to their music guy, he liked it and now i’m writing CD-reviews - good fun)
anyway, today i start listening to a south african band called summersalt (always lowercase cause it saves time - oh children of the internet…
)
some fun, lighty rocking, mainly poppy kinda stuff
if jack russel terriers could play music kinda stuff
and then suddenly, out of the blue, they get all christ-y and god-y on me
now let me be known as mr tolerant
u want to get your thing on and not harm any small animals, other people or other things, it’s kewl by me
i dont care what u invoke, expell or sacrifice, keep it civil and i’ll leave u alone
nowadays CDs carry Explicit Content labels to warn me of language that i use in my everyday life
i use a spicey version of my queen’s english
i’m not boasting about it
i’m damn sure not apologising for it
i’m describing it
but i ‘need’ to be warned about this? 
(are they scared i may pick up new inflections to use?
mind u, if u’ve ever heard Robb Flynn make the expression ‘jesus wept’ his own on the track ‘Old’ from 94’s Burn My Eyes, u might disagree with my disregard for the explicit content label. but i digress…)
can i ask for an ‘Explicit Religious Content’ label?
do your thing, i dont mind, i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again
but
don’t preach to me when u’re pretending to entertain me
even worse, don’t preach to me when i pay u to entertain me
(the eagle memoried among u will bring up the linda ronstadt issue i’m sure, we can chat about that later)
all i want is a label telling me that this recording, this movie, this TV show contains explicit, religious content
and please don’t waste my time by telling me that i should ‘judge it on the music alone’
does the phrase ‘fruit from a poisoned tree’ mean anything to u?
now remember, as u reach for the ‘quote’ button, all i want is a label
i want the information to make an informed decision
that’s all i’m asking for
and i’ve backed down on this a bit allready, originally i wanted an ‘Outdated Superstition Content’ label
Yeah, yeah, me too. As a vegetarian I want a warning label if there are explicit references to the consumption of meat cause that really puts me off. But I also want a label if there are vegan references, cause I’m a lacto-ovo vegetarian and don’t want those extremists preaching to me!
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ