Can white men play hiphop? jazz? blues?

I think a large part of the answer depends on how you define “real” or “true” hiphop, jazz, or blues.

If one were to define “real” hiphop/jazz/blues as dependent on the condition of growing up and experiencing the world as a black person, which is still very different than that of a white person today, then its impossible for a white man to create “true” h/j/b.

If you think about is, blues originated as a form of expression in black-only clubs, largely in the south. It was an expression of these individuals’ lives, based on there personal experience, and sharing at least one thing in common - the color of their skin.

The same argument can be made regarding jazz and hophop.

This is in no way racism, however. “True” forms of these styles of music are created based on the experience of having darker skin, not having dark skin itself.

The white man has taken “the black man’s music” (if a race can “own” any type of music) and institutionalized it. It’s no longer by feel, it’s lost spontaneity. Its been broken down into chords and scales, analyzed, and taught in a classroom. Just like classical music.

This isn’t to say that “white man’s jazz” isn’t music. It’s music played in a particular style (hiphop, jazz, or blues), but isn’t the “true” form of that style. In the same way that modern painters can paint in the impressionist style but cannot duplicate the paintings of Monet or Degas, modern white musicians cannot play true hiphop, jazz or blues. Thus, their compositions and performances could be regarded as bordering on “kitsch” in the music world.

Though honestly, I still don’t know if I totally agree with my argument. I think it might be too anal. You know, from those “purists” who hate everything but the absolute original.

Just something to think about, I guess. This is a topic I’ve thought about here and there, and never really arrived at a definite conclusion. I’m interested to see what you guys think.

Note: I would have put this in the hiphop discussion thread, but it seemed too much like a threadjack.

Music is a way a connecting with other people. It is also a way of connecting to yourself.

When you play music in a particular style, you connect with those who originated that style and others who identify with it.

There is nothing more true than that.

can black people play metal?

its all opinion, i dont really think that “white people” can rap, but IMO the white version of rap is hip hop…i think true “rap” would reflect your circumstances and your past

blues is a whole different story…i think that obviosly black’s invented blues/jazz as a supplement to the white “swing” music…i think that white people are basically doing that with “hip hop”

again this is my own opinion

i agree, you are basically connecting with whomever wrote the music’s emotions at the time the music was writen

Of course they can.

Metal has its roots in rock
…which has its roots in blues

which all has roots back to Andre’s Segovia (sp) (classical)who basically invented modernday guitar

Whites can play Jazz/Blues/etc.
They just play it differently. You don’t have to be black to “sing the blues”. You can be poor, female, gay, jewish, muslim, transgendered, mexican, oriental… all can tap into that “feeling”. There’s a certain way a white guy play though, that’s different from a black dude cuz they have different experiences.
Have you ever heard Bill Evans? He played from his heart, even though he was white, and that’s what music is about. And he played real jazz.

Not that most white people actualy can play jazz… whenever I hear Dave Brubeck play his “jazz” I want to vomit… He dosn’t get the feeling.

Blues probably has .00000001% roots in classical music.
The early blues players were self-taught, often making their own instruments.
Classical technique came MUCH later.

everything EVERYTHING roots back to classical music, you may not think so…but theory wise it does

surely limiting what music you can listen to and play according to your colour is racism and steriotyping. you can make what ever style music you want as long as it sounds good really. and you can listen to what ever it doent affect anyone else.

WTF?
Not EVERYTHING has roots in dead white people. Blues probably has some classical roots but the the real roots are work songs, field hollers and call and respose chants. The brought their music with them when they were kidnapped and forced into slavery and morphed the music into a new style (several styles actually) and played it on new/western instruments.

A lot of people say Brubeck can’t swing. I saw him live only a few years ago, and he was amazing - at 80-odd years old.

Yes, his music is sometimes very structured, and more “on the beat” than other jazz pianists, and sometimes a bit too “clever”, but at other times, he is the best of both worlds: classical and jazz. He is a truly great musician, with a career spanning well over 40 years (I saw him on the UK tour that was the 40th anniversary of his first tour of the UK) and he is still producing new compositions.

In the concert I saw, he played for about an hour before the break. Towards the end of the first “half”, some moron in the audience started shouting for Take 5. Brubeck laboriously got to his feet, and shuffled over to the microphone:

“I’d like to thank the gentleman who just reminded me of the title of one of the tracks on the 100 CDs I have in circulation, but for the first hour or so, I’m only going to play brand new material. After the break, I’ll do a selection of older tunes, which might include that one.”

Laughter all round.:smiley:

Oh yes, can white men sing/play jazz? Bix Beiderbecke, 1903 to 1931. Need I say more?

Brubeck can swing, he introduced different “complex” time signatures into mainstream jazz, he’s an amazing person and verrrrrrry friendly but he dosn’t have any message in his music. No FEELING. Good music to dance to but not to LISTEN to in my not-at-all humble opinion.
I just saw Hank Jones play a week ago. Brubeck dosn’t stand a chance against him.

Beiderbecke all the way though! :smiley:

Anybody can do a true form of any type of music regardless of skin color. Being that color doesn’t give you rights, or abilities to make it better than anybody else… I mean look at all the horrid rappers white/ black and all of the great ones both white and black. Eminem is one of the best rappers, his lyrics have meaning and if you listen they tell a story and he is white. Take a look at soulja boy obviously his skin color hasn’t helped him make true anything.

Ever hear of the popular band slipknot? Yeah blacks can play metal.

What is with the race obsession?

The proper context is that these are AMERICAN music. America enslaved, murdered, mistreated, lynched, and wrongly incarcerated people with dark skin more than other nation. Even today in America, unlike anywhere else, if you’re Black, the odds are far greater you will be incarcerated than if you’re White.

So? If there is a great percentage of black people doing criminal activities than whites what does that matter?

haha i meant all music goats lmao

I know… and that isn’t true…

C’mon, now you have to give the British Empire some credit. IIRC, Christopher Columbus helped pioneer the practice of murder and slavery in the west!

…and for threadjack of the year award, I present contestant number one, BTM!